Amenities and Perks...

[Carlobrand]

While it's true that routine passenger service is a thing of the past, I think current day cruise liners can be used as a rough guide for the amenities aboard Traveller's larger liners. It's all about keeping the passengers occupied during the trip.

Once steamers took over the routes, Atlantic crossings took 3 to 6 days depending on the ports involved and the weather between them. The best liners weren't only just the faster ones, amenities counted too because, as Johnson once quipped, being aboard a ship is like being in jail with the added chance of drowning.

If keeping passengers occupied during a 3 day trip was important, why wouldn't it also be important during a trip which consists of 7 days in jump plus however long is spent in normal space between the ports and jump limits?

I once took a freighter from Charleston, SC to Valparaiso, Chile in the 1990s. A relative of mine was an officer aboard and offered me a travel to travel as a P.A.C; "person in addition to crew". I'd read that Alex Haley, the author of Roots often traveled in freighters as a way of getting work done without distractions so jumped at the chance hoping to get some serious studying done. I originally planned on making it a round trip. However, before the first week was over I was so bored that I flew back to the US from Valparaiso instead.

The food was excellent and each meal's menu extensive, the US Merchant Marine eat like kings. The officers and crew were pleasant, but they all had jobs to do and none of those jobs included acting as a cruise director for me. I found I could only study the materials I'd brought aboard so many hours a day before the law of diminishing returns set in. That left a lot of hours to fill and not much to fill them with. The tedium was broken by a few ports of call on the way to Chile, but I can imagine what 168 hours with no breaks would have been like. o:

Passenger ships in Traveller are going to have as many amenities as practical if only to keep the passengers from killing themselves and each other out of sheer boredom.

Yeah, but I gotta figure the free trader at least has a better selection of DVDs and video games than a seagoing freighter, since they routinely carry passengers. Not sure what else might be available. Only way I can figure to cover a free trader cruise with one steward is to give him an 80-hour schedule and then give him the following week off, and at that he spends most of his time preparing, supervising, and then cleaning up from meals. Man, I gotta get me some bots!

 

[Orr]

Yeah, but I gotta figure the free trader at least has a better selection of DVDs and video games than a seagoing freighter, since they routinely carry passengers.

I spent a lot of time using the VCR in the ward room and video games weren't as common as they are now. I do remember being told that, while the ship carried at least one passenger each time it steamed the route, passengers were both incidental and inconsequential to the ship's business. That won't be the case with free traders, they need paying passengers.

Not sure what else might be available.

I remember thinking that just another P.A.C. would have made things less boring. We could have been bored together. :rofl:

The advances in personal electronics in just ~20 years would had made things more bearable too.

Only way I can figure to cover a free trader cruise with one steward is to give him an 80-hour schedule and then give him the following week off, and at that he spends most of his time preparing, supervising, and then cleaning up from meals.

Stewards are for high passengers and I definitely wasn't travelling on a high passage. Still, I had three excellent and extensive meals a day, plus a late night meal if I wanted it, and my stateroom was cleaned daily by one of the crew.

The stewards on board the freighter were chefs primarily. While they did keep their galley and the dining rooms clean, general housekeeping was done by other members of the crew.

Man, I gotta get me some bots!

IIRC, MgT allows you to replace stewards with equipment.

Returning to my original point, ships, not just liners, in the game are going to take amenities seriously if only to keep their passengers and crew from going crazy.

 

[Timerover51]

and I have no doubt that an airline service in 2999 could do the same. but it's not the dates. it's the circumstances. an aircraft has all the free air it needs, but a space-going ship has a profoundly limited air volume available, and a liner will have very many people relying on that air. filtering out small amounts of unavoidable contaminants is one thing, but oxygen replacement and filtering out extra CO and CO2 and smoke and grease from any kind of large-scale cooking will be another issue altogether. as grease builds up over time the fire hazard alone will become significant.

of course one can always do the voodoo handwave dance and referee-rule that "it's all good", after all it's just a game. but I try to avoid that approach if possible. (notice the ships in my deckplans have reserve air and water, and life support units.) The original question was, "So, what do we offer the Impeial citizen who is traveling [on a liner] in style?" I don't think high cuisine could be one of the things offered.

http://vidmax.com/video/67443-Gas-Explosion-in-Kitchen-Caught-on-Slow-Motion-Camera

As I have said many times on this forum, you can do whatever you like in your own Traveller Universe. I simply go by the rule that the fastest way to get people upset while traveling, or to ruin the morale of a military unit, is to give them poor, inadequate, or tasteless food.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Who said tasteless?

As I have said many times on this forum, you can do whatever you like in your own Traveller Universe. I simply go by the rule that the fastest way to get people upset while traveling, or to ruin the morale of a military unit, is to give them poor, inadequate, or tasteless food.

While I will grant your supposition, I don't recall anyone mentioning tasteless, poor or inadequate food.

Pre-packaged does not mean bad, it just means pre-packaged. It could very well be tasty and more than adequate. Especially in the future when they should have even better preparation and storage techniques.

Also, it is pretty amazing what you can do with a few fresh, good quality ingredients added to some pre-packaged grub.

 

[Carlobrand]

While I will grant your supposition, I don't recall anyone mentioning tasteless, poor or inadequate food.

Pre-packaged does not mean bad, it just means pre-packaged. It could very well be tasty and more than adequate. Especially in the future when they should have even better preparation and storage techniques.

Also, it is pretty amazing what you can do with a few fresh, good quality ingredients added to some pre-packaged grub.

I am not spending the equivalent of 5 months of a nurse's salary so someone can hand me TV dinners for a week, however tasty or dressed up those TV dinners might be. They can give TV dinners to the guy on middle passage. I am going to expect a quality meal for my extra two grand.

 

[Timerover51]

While I will grant your supposition, I don't recall anyone mentioning tasteless, poor or inadequate food.

Pre-packaged does not mean bad, it just means pre-packaged. It could very well be tasty and more than adequate. Especially in the future when they should have even better preparation and storage techniques.

Also, it is pretty amazing what you can do with a few fresh, good quality ingredients added to some pre-packaged grub.

How long would airlines in the Real World get away with charging those expensive differentials for First/Business Class if they fed those passengers the same food as the Economy Class? I think that the answer is self-evident.

The original post said, and I quote in bold:

traveling in style.

Eating pre-packaged meals IS NOT "traveling in style".

 

[Patron Zero]

I think another bit that determines a passenger's comfort and enjoyment is the quality of certain amenities, in particular the cabin-stateroom in which spend the majority of said passage.

Mind for those operating dedicated passenger liners that's considered from the moment of conception and kept in mind until said vessel is retired from 'active' service. For smaller scale ship-owners or freight haulers much can be gleaned from how the 'luxury-class' keep their guests happy and apply such in their more limited venues.

It's always about the room, how functional the design is and in that thinking, making a fixed sized space appear much larger than it's true physical displacement. Such forethought would then grant much in the way of options to achieve the illusion of grander quarters to the passenger at large.

The biggest trick involved is creating open spaces inside the established floor plan of a stateroom or suite, such easily done by furniture and fixtures that can be 'redressed' as required for dining, relaxation or entertaining.

I guess the gist here is that a closed floor plan tends to create a cramped claustrophobic space even in the finest of settings and amenities and that is a definite 'buzz-kill' for the entire voyage.

-Oh as asked before, 'where are the bots ?', IMTU, I find delegating the more mundane tasks of housekeeping and guest services support to drones or astromech-type droids. Making beds and doing laundry is not beyond a well programed machine's capacities, the interaction for more personal service and related needs I leave to androids or as such prefer the nomenclator, artificial persons.

 

[martletsquire]

A lot can be done today with food in a kitchen that has decent filters, more modern appliances and such. If the military can cook elaborate meals, including broiling steaks, on a TL6/TL7 submarine, then in the future of TL9+, those same principles should be able to be found in the civilian specialty market of starships. Especially on some big honking luxury liner. Though they should be found on tramp liners too.

Never have been happy with sci-fi visions of microwave and extruded foods for dinner. Bleh.

Especially at higher tech levels. Food stabilization, whether from a machine onboard or due to initial processing or genetics or such, should extend the shelf-life/cookability of the future.

 

[Enoki]

I would also surmise for the culinary challenged that things like "airline" food and other sorts of pre-cooked meals would have advanced greatly where one could cook a near gourmet meal out of packets and boxes using little more than a "microwave."

 

[pendragonman]

I would also surmise for the culinary challenged that things like "airline" food and other sorts of pre-cooked meals would have advanced greatly where one could cook a near gourmet meal out of packets and boxes using little more than a "microwave."

Turbochef. Not Microwave. A turbochef will brown food like working a stove.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ah, the old, but I am important bit.

How long would airlines in the Real World get away with charging those expensive differentials for First/Business Class if they fed those passengers the same food as the Economy Class? I think that the answer is self-evident.

The original post said, and I quote in bold:



Eating pre-packaged meals IS NOT "traveling in style".

You do so show your temporal bias. "I don't think pre-packaged food is good now, so obviously in the future this will hold true." So you will acknowledge that we can improve on weapons, travel and communications tech, but not food. That seems awfully silly to me and bogus.

But then we get to your last bit, which is not really about food, but having other sophont cater to my self importance which means slaving over a hot stove, not a delicious pre-packaged food.

Why does "in style" translate to servitude even when it makes no damned sense? Why is it not possible to have style and pre-packaged food other than a desire to have some one add unneeded labor?

 

[Patron Zero]

Safe to say that replicators won't be found quite as yet in any ship's galleys.

 

[Enoki]

Turbochef. Not Microwave. A turbochef will brown food like working a stove.

Just don't use the afterburner feature... o:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAx67gfWU50

 

[flykiller]

you can do whatever you like in your own Traveller Universe.

fine. luau!

Pre-packaged does not mean bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tg3-93jKvc

 

[Spinward Scout]

So you will acknowledge that we can improve on weapons, travel and communications tech, but not food.

Are you suggesting that food preparation be on the Tech Level chart?

 

[flykiller]

Why does "in style" translate to servitude even when it makes no damned sense? Why is it not possible to have style and pre-packaged food other than a desire to have some one add unneeded labor?

well, there are people like that, and they will tend to rise to positions of power and control. slavery of one form or another is the norm for human history and there's little reason to suppose this will change to any great degree in a few thousand years, especially after a long night event.

 

[Carlobrand]

You do so show your temporal bias. "I don't think pre-packaged food is good now, so obviously in the future this will hold true." So you will acknowledge that we can improve on weapons, travel and communications tech, but not food. That seems awfully silly to me and bogus. ...

I think a master chef would agree with him. Maybe most people don't have a palate that can appreciate that level of food, but the people who can afford high passage are likely to be among the ones who can. As far as they're concerned, a Steward-1's best effort is still slumming. They're not going to appreciate additional corners being cut.

 

[flykiller]

They're not going to appreciate additional corners being cut.

they may not appreciate it, but getting ultra-high-class service at commercial-high-passage rates seems impossible. it's more likely that kind of service would exist on a private yacht where the über-wealthy owner is seeking not profits but guests to enjoy his luxury with him.

 

[rancke]

I think a master chef would agree with him.

It seems most unlikely to me that food preservation techniques wouldn't continue to improve past TL 7. It seems to me that the lack of any improvement must be an oversight.

Maybe most people don't have a palate that can appreciate that level of food, but the people who can afford high passage are likely to be among the ones who can. As far as they're concerned, a Steward-1's best effort is still slumming. They're not going to appreciate additional corners being cut.

The food fed to high passengers cost exactly the same as the food fed to middle passengers (exact same life support cost), so presumably there's no difference in quality.


Hans

 

[Patron Zero]

I would tend to assume, perhaps my err in doing such, that vessels catering specifically to ultra-high passage travelers would have onboard hydroponic-based gardens to provide the literal freshest fruits and vegetables possible.

No suggesting anything as grandiose as say agricultural 'domes' for such production but definitely dedicating some space equal to a few standard cargo modules to 'hydro-farm' pods for that same purpose.

IMTU, the starship the player characters operated had a galley section with a few racks of hydroponic 'tanks' that produced strawberries, various greens and select tubers. A given no room onboard for a larger livestock for fresh meat and dairy items but some other like-sized vessels did have chickens in residence. And trust me, fresh eggs were worth their weight in gold in some ports of call.