Archdukes and emperors are beyond the normal scope of play

[whulorigan]

Soc 12 is small c baronet

0-9
A gentleman (10)
B Knight (11)
c baronet (12) <-----
C Baron (13)
D Marquis (14)

...

So with incredible luck... 2d6 =12(c), 2d6 =12 ->13(C), 2d6+flux >= 12 ->14(D)
and 1/6 chance per roll on table one, average 4 rolls a term ... 66% chance per term if using all rolls on table 1 for a +1 soc. You technically could be a grand duke in five terms... as an unskilled 5 term noble. Of course this character already has horseshoes so potentially arch duke in 2 terms with three skill rolls for other skills...

So the rolls would be
Character base stats c6 2d6 = 12
Career promotion 2d6 =12
Career promotion 2d6 =12 + flux for 13
Then 6 6 6 6 for skill rolls term 1 on table 1
Then another 6 on same table...

Actually:

Soc 12 is both small "c" (baronet) AND large "C" (Baron)

0-9
A Gentleman (10)
B Knight (11)
c Baronet (12) <-----
C Baron (12) <-----
D Marquis (13)
e Viscount (14)
E Count (14)
f Duke (15)
F (Subsector) Duke (15)
G Archduke (16)

Those letters are EHex: "c" and "C" are both 12, "e" and "E" are both 14, etc., but they are fractional ranks within a particular Social Standing rating (i.e. one ranks "with but after" the other).

So rolling equal or greater than Soc for elevation, you can get to C6/Soc=13(D) via regular elevation, and possibly to C6/Soc=14(e) with elevation+FLUX if you are lucky.

So with incredible luck...
A Knight (B) rolls 2d6=11+ --> Soc 12 (c/Baronet),
A Baronet (c) rolls 2d6=12 --> Soc 12 (C/Baron),
A Baron (C) rolls 2d6=12 --> Soc 13 (D/Marquis),
A Marquis (D) rolls 2d6+flux=13+ -->Soc 14 (e/Viscount)

Btw: do you know book and page number for the rule that limits c6 to E or less without referee

Nowhere. That is merely the practical limit to Noble elevation thru the Noble Career (as demonstrated above) thru Intrigues, as opposed to C6+1 Personal Characteristic advancement (of which all Careers may partake, including Nobles). The standard maximum (for humans) for any stat unless otherwise specified has always been Stat=15 (==> C6/Soc= f or F).

See Nobility, Book 1, p.51 and C6/Nobility Table, p.55.

 

[Ackehece]

Thanks

 

[CaptRet]

In Mongoose Core Rulebook 2d ed, high Social Status need not necessarily be tied to Nobility, but rather be indicative of status, influence, celebrity within society. An honors graduate from the naval/military academy increases Soc by plus 1 - that wouldn't mean that a character beginning with Soc 10 is therefore knighted for his academic achievement, but rather that he has gained some status by it (others, particularly within the military or govt, or prospective employers in industry, are impressed by it). That can account for higher status for such characters as Entertainers (and for decades the Queen of England has been knighting famous actors). And individuals with courtesy titles (younger sons of younger sons perhaps) can have social status without the accompanying real power over resources (a Soc 8 police chief has real local power, but s/he knows the Soc 12 retired colonel may know people who dine with the commissioner of police and might be able to pull strings above the chief's head).

 

[Ackehece]

In Mongoose Core Rulebook 2d ed, high Social Status need not necessarily be tied to Nobility, but rather be indicative of status, influence, celebrity within society. An honors graduate from the naval/military academy increases Soc by plus 1 - that wouldn't mean that a character beginning with Soc 10 is therefore knighted for his academic achievement, but rather that he has gained some status by it (others, particularly within the military or govt, or prospective employers in industry, are impressed by it). That can account for higher status for such characters as Entertainers (and for decades the Queen of England has been knighting famous actors). And individuals with courtesy titles (younger sons of younger sons perhaps) can have social status without the accompanying real power over resources (a Soc 8 police chief has real local power, but s/he knows the Soc 12 retired colonel may know people who dine with the commissioner of police and might be able to pull strings above the chief's head).

T5 is similar in that if you are in the military you may gain noble level soc characteristics but unless you are an officer you are not knighted/don't gain noble ranks. You just have the Soc 11+ without the nobility attached.

"In the Spacer, Soldier, and Marine careers, Knighthood
is only available to Officers. A non-officer receives Soc +1
(even if it advances Soc to 11 or beyond)." T5.10,B1,Pg68

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

In Mongoose Core Rulebook 2d ed, high Social Status need not necessarily be tied to Nobility, but rather be indicative of status, influence, celebrity within society.

Yep. In Mongoose, I've had Emperor characters come from both Navy and Entertainer careers.

 

[Enoki]

I think a more important question, and one that really isn't addressed by the rules-- whichever version you want to use-- is:

What are the expectations, duties, and rules for being a noble? This is particularly important when you are discussing high nobility.


I'd think that any noble from baron up would have 'people.' That is, they have a staff. It might be small for a baron but a duke would definitely have a staff of several to many persons who do the mundane and act as filters to keep the riff raff away.

I'd expect that there are numerous social and political functions that nobles have to participate in as part of their being who they are. This would likely increase with rank. After all, say a duke, showing up somewhere is a serious news event. I seriously doubt a duke could just go somewhere without some of their staff going ahead of them and arranging things.

I'd think that higher nobles would require things like bodyguards and others who ensure the privacy of communications, keep the equivalent of the paparazzi away, and that sort of thing.

There would almost certainly have to be rules of etiquette and social expectations that nobles have to meet as well.

After all, any noble was appointed to their position by higher authority within the nobility. They didn't just pop up like some mushrooms after a rain. That appointment would have some level of expected responsibility attached to it.

Sure, there could be nobles who no longer hold any real power but still have a title, but being a noble in name alone would not hold the same social status as actually being a noble in power.

Thus, I'd think you could have say a baron or knight that has a social standing of 7 or 9 or there abouts who no longer has any authority or real power as a noble. But, those nobles who are in positions commensurate with their social position and title would definitely have responsibilities and expectations attached to their title.

What say you on what those would be since the rules don't spell them out.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

What say you on what those would be since the rules don't spell them out.

Some (most) planets have feudal technocracies in my games. I use the description from Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition. And role-play it very much like the nobles in Space Viking.

 

[Leitz]

I'd still like to see this done. For me it would be a serious learning experience, something I long for.

 

[AsenRG]

T5 sees much less high nobility in character development since Marc split nobility up into high and low versions of each rank.
Noble is character class as well and is definitely a beaurocrate, and also the only class that accesses higher nobility... and that is still rather minor.

Rank
0-9ABcCDeEfFGGH
Max on 2d6 is rank c, anything above that require in reward promotions...and to give you an idea how hard that is...

"Elevation: Roll Soc or greater (no
Mods but possibly Flux) to rise to
the next higher Noble rank and its
increase in Social Standing (if any)."

If you are already rank c ( Baronet ) you can raise to rank C ( Baron ) (roll a 12 again on soc) with a perfect roll... and then maybe rank D ( Marquis ) with flux (roll a 13 on 2d6+flux). Anything higher rank is impossible. 2 terms with successful risk/reward rolls to maximize this chance

"A Noble may not pursue another career after this one."


Oddly enough a 6 term Rogue may be able to get higher social rank if they roll well on their benefits table. A potential + 6 to soc as a 1/3 chance on each benefits roll (~5% chance of max soc increase)

Oddly?
Don Corleone wants to have a word with you, Marquis!

 

[Blue Ghost]

It depends on the circumstance, but otherwise no. For player characters to get tapped on the shoulder by a very high up would require some kind of issue that only specific PCs in the group could address by way of expertise or ability.

In my opinion transforming characters from bagging local crooks or what not to turning them into saviors of the universe, is sloppy writing. Ratcheting up the stakes by increasing the scope of the threat, again my opinion, means that you've run out of ideas.

So, from a practical standpoint, no, because PCs typically are not that important. From an artistic standpoint, it shows a weakness in story generation.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

It depends on the circumstance, but otherwise no. For player characters to get tapped on the shoulder by a very high up would require some kind of issue that only specific PCs in the group could address by way of expertise or ability.

In my opinion transforming characters from bagging local crooks or what not to turning them into saviors of the universe, is sloppy writing. Ratcheting up the stakes by increasing the scope of the threat, again my opinion, means that you've run out of ideas.

So, from a practical standpoint, no, because PCs typically are not that important. From an artistic standpoint, it shows a weakness in story generation.

Bland could easily be a Traveller.

 

[aramis]

It depends on the circumstance, but otherwise no. For player characters to get tapped on the shoulder by a very high up would require some kind of issue that only specific PCs in the group could address by way of expertise or ability.

I disagree with this. Why? The single most important element for a noble's choice is, of abject necessity,trust. If the PC is someone the noble trusts (and naval command grade officers and nobles are going to have noble contacts; marine officers and army officers as well, plus anyone who served in a huscarles unit)...

You start with "Whom can I trust to do this?"
THEN you ask, "which of them is competent?"
and next, you ask, "Can I afford to use them?"

Afford isn't just money, but also rep, risk of losing them, risk of them burning you... which falls back to Trust - that they can do the job.

They might not be the best skilled; they just need to be skilled enough.
They might not be the most cost effective, but if they get it done either flashily enough or discretely enough, (as the mission requires,) the price is right.
But if you can't trust them thoroughly, it's all a fail from day 1.

In a government of Men, not laws, the single most important currency is trust,.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Blue Ghost]

Oh gee, what a coincidence. I was just watching that film the other day.

On trust; yeah, I think that's implicit if you get the nod from someone of archduke rank, or even higher like one of the monarchs, or their offspring.

 

[Blue Ghost]

More thoughts here; I think the trust factor is correct. But I think that's with hiring outside contractors, as Traveller is kind of all about. I think if you have government or academicians who work closely with the government or are reputable, then I think the trust factor is built in.

From a gaming and player standpoint, I also think that's part of the drama of the story; can the players be trusted to carry out the Prince's orders?

 

[Condottiere]

More likely cut outs and patsies.

 

[Leitz]

In a government of Men, not laws, the single most important currency is trust,.

Agreed. To take it a step further, interesting characters need "GMC":

• Goal -- What do they want?
• Motivation -- Why do they want it?
• Conflict -- What prevents them from getting it?

In the Battlestar Galactica remake, characters included the civilian and military heads of all known humanity. They had GMC. Gaming an Arch Duke without GMC is no less boring than gaming a three term ex-scout without GMC. The game needs interest; that's plot and conflict. Most good players can come up with GMCs for their characters, and often the DM will add more. A character type is only really out of play if you can't come up with a GMC for them.

And GMC is not my idea, I stole it from some writing books.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I just bought Eve of Rebellion today. It takes place in 1116. Will be taking a look at it and doing a review of it soon.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

I just bought Eve of Rebellion today. It takes place in 1116. Will be taking a look at it and doing a review of it soon.

Which book is Eve of Rebellion? Is it MegaTraveller?

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Which book is Eve of Rebellion? Is it MegaTraveller?

It's a TAS book over at Drive-Thru.