General Aslan and slavery

[Qstor2]

I noticed a bit about Aslan and slavery in the MgT Aslan book. Was this the case in CT? My Aslan alien module is in storage. My Aslan/Solomani MT book is AWOL. I checked the GT alien races book on the Aslan and didn't see it in there.

Are they more indentured servants and criminals THAN actual slaves in MgT? I was wondering if this is new or was in CT or MT.

GT recommend feudal Japan as an inspiration for Aslan culture. I just checked Wikpedia and there was slavery in Japan until 1590, but indentured servitude continued.

 

[mike wightman]

There is no mention of Aslan having/keeping slaves in the CT Alien module.

Some Vargr do, the Aslan don't.

I'm sure the MgT author(s) of their Aslan stuff conducted extensive research and had good reason for the change...

 

[whulorigan]

I noticed a bit about Aslan and slavery in the MgT Aslan book. Was this the case in CT? My Aslan alien module is in storage. My Aslan/Solomani MT book is AWOL. I checked the GT alien races book on the Aslan and didn't see it in there.

Are they more indentured servants and criminals THAN actual slaves in MgT? I was wondering if this is new or was in CT or MT.

GT recommend feudal Japan as an inspiration for Aslan culture. I just checked Wikpedia and there was slavery in Japan until 1590, but indentured servitude continued.

There is no mention of Aslan having/keeping slaves in the CT Alien module.

Some Vargr do, the Aslan don't.

I'm sure the MgT author(s) of their Aslan stuff conducted extensive research and had good reason for the change...

IIRC, the only mention of (current-day) slavery among the Aslan had to do with the outlawed members of the Glorious Empire in the Trojan Reach.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

More information: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Slave

Please feel free to add, enrich, edit, etc.

Shalom,
M.

 

[mike wightman]

The wiki claims slavery is widespread throughout Aslan space - where is the evidence for this to be found?

There is an often ignored mention of slavery hidden in the Darrian alien module:

The Irhadre of Lishun sector maintain a form of ritual slavery for half of their adult population.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

The wiki claims slavery is widespread throughout Aslan space - where is the evidence for this to be found?

Gareth Hanrahan. Aslan (Mongoose Publishing, 2009).

It is in other sources as well, but that is the only one the wiki team currently has sourced.

I believe this also mentions it:

Peter G. Celella, James Holden. Solomani & Aslan (Digest Group Publications, 1991)

Would be happy to be corrected.

Shalom,
M.

 

[whulorigan]

The wiki claims slavery is widespread throughout Aslan space - where is the evidence for this to be found?

From MgT Alien Module 1: Aslan, p.159 (The Glorious Empire):

Aside from practicing slavery, Glorious Empire culture is much like traditional Aslan culture. Males are warriors and landowners; females are technicians, merchants and advisors. Herding and disciplining slaves is considered a male task.

The book does mention in a number of places that in historical times (including the Long Night) the Alsan practice of slavery was much more widespread.

From MgT Alien Module 1: Aslan, p.62:

The Aslan have incorporated numerous minor races into the Hierate. These species, ranging from the avian-descended Pol Nox to the reptilian Z’kr to the Ulane. Races encountered by the Aslan early in their expansion were usually enslaved or annihilated but modern Aslan are more likely to incorporate other races into the Hierate or trade with them. Incorporated races are permitted to form clans and own territory and may even be treated as the equals of Aslan if they behave properly, although few non-Aslan ever rise above the rank of awkhea (landless serf).

 

[mike wightman]

So no different to humans then.

Aslan in the MgT ATU appear to be very different to Aslan in the OTU.

 

[Timerover51]

I wonder if the Mongoose Rules allow for the Aslan doing to humans what Roman agriculturalists recommended to do to oxen. When the oxen were no longer pulling their weight, it was recommended to put them on forage grass for a few months and then sell them for food. The English agriculturalists in the Medieval Period made the same recommendation. Do the Mongoose rules give the price for a human slave, and what he/her resale value as food would be? If they allow for human slavery, that indicates that there would be slave markets for sale and resale.

Then there could be something on the order of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. That was written for and aimed at the British public. For those who do not know or have not read Swift's work, it can be found and downloaded here at Project Gutenberg.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm

 

[Timerover51]

Slave Markets

If someone needs a description of a slave market for game purposes, there is one available in the following book on Project Gutenberg.

Pictures of Southern Life: Social, Political, and Military, By William Howard Russell. Mr. Russell was an English war and newspaper correspondent that toured the U.S. right after the firing on Fort Sumter in 1861.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/40727/40727-h/40727-h.htm

His more extended work on his tour, My Diary, North and South, can be found on archive.org. It should be noted that Mr. Russell used the language of his time to write these works, and that they are most definitely NOT politically correct, and would be quite difficult to assign as a reading book for a class on the U.S. Civil War.

Edit Note: As it appears that the Aslan have been keeping human slaves for some time, is there any indications that they have been doing selective breeding to enhance or degrade certain traits, such as intelligence, amount of muscle mass, amount of fat, selective areas of muscle mass, etc.

Also, are humans in combat against the Aslan allowed any form of "desperation roll" knowing that they may be enslaved if defeated and captured?

 

[mike wightman]

Gareth Hanrahan. Aslan (Mongoose Publishing, 2009).

Hmm, I wonder if he was influenced by Kzinti, Kilrathi and Liono because he doesn't appear to stick with the CT Alien module.

It is in other sources as well, but that is the only one the wiki team currently has sourced.

That is not very helpful in tracking this stuff down. Unless you cite actual sources for them then it is pure conjecture.

I believe this also mentions it:

Peter G. Celella, James Holden. Solomani & Aslan (Digest Group Publications, 1991)

Would be happy to be corrected.

Shalom,
M.

I will search through GT material on the Aslan and DGP's Rats and Cats - I'll see what they have to say and post back when research is complete.

 

[mike wightman]

GT Alien Races 2 has no mention of Aslan taking or keeping slaves that I can find. If I have missed something I would welcome someone telling me what it is and where.

It does mention that there are thousands of clans, every clan has its own customs, laws, traditions even recorded histories can vary between the clans.

 

[mike wightman]

DGP's Solomani and Aslan has no mention of Aslan taking or keeping slaves that I can find. Once again, if I have missed something I would welcome someone telling me what it is and where.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Hmm, I wonder if he was influenced by Kzinti, Kilrathi and Liono because he doesn't appear to stick with the CT Alien module.

Yes. A number of the authors were influenced by various cat people in existing sci-fi. Harshman used to chat about it on the old linguistics boards. Others too.

That is not very helpful in tracking this stuff down. Unless you cite actual sources for them then it is pure conjecture.

Sorry, we all have to start somewhere. If you are expecting to have it handed to you, you'll need to help or be patient as others do the work.

And it's not pure conjecture, it's a place to start the research, which is better than nothing.

I and the rest of the wiki team have been hearing this kind of criticism for some time as we have literally updated thousands upon thousands of wiki articles to better serve the community. All I can say is please be patient, and optimally step up to update articles and lend your superior Traveller knowledge to the community. Please help. And thank you.

The wiki has a limited number of volunteers and we can all only do so much.

Appreciate your thinking and sharing of ideas.

Shalom,
M.

 

[mike wightman]

Sorry I'm not trying to be snarky. As you can see from my next two posts I have searched through GT Alien Races 2 and DGP's Solomani and Aslan. It took a good few hours.

Neither mention Aslan taking slaves or keeping slaves that I can find.

Both go into detail about Aslan honour, feudalism, social structure etc. There are mentions of vassals, peasants in the encounter tables, even forced labour as being punishment for certain crimes, but not a single mention of taking slaves or keeping them.

In point of fact from what I have read I would think it incredibly unlikely for Aslan aligned with the Heirate to contemplate slavery.

 

[whulorigan]

Sorry I'm not trying to be snarky. As you can see from my next two posts I have searched through GT Alien Races 2 and DGP's Solomani and Aslan. It took a good few hours.

Neither mention Aslan taking slaves or keeping slaves that I can find.

Both go into detail about Aslan honour, feudalism, social structure etc. There are mentions of vassals, peasants in the encounter tables, even forced labour as being punishment for certain crimes, but not a single mention of taking slaves or keeping them.

In point of fact from what I have read I would think it incredibly unlikely for Aslan aligned with the Heirate to contemplate slavery.

Even in the MgT material, the impression I get is that for Hierate-affiliated Aslan, slavery was a thing of the past (during their initial expansion during the Long Night), and is not generally practiced today. It is among some of the Trans-Rift Outlaw/Deviant Clans (like the Glorious Empire) where it is practiced during the 1100's.

 

[mike wightman]

There is no mention of any form of slavery, historic or otherwise, in CT, MT or GT. Certainly it wasn't practiced during their industrialisation era.

It is an invention of MgT to justify their deviant clans and Glorious Empire, it has not previous canonical precedent that I can find.

I don't doubt that some Aslan renegades and deviants may turn to slavery, just as humans and Vargr are canonically mentioned as doing so. But the attempt at a retcon to say it has always been thus or was like this in the past? No - the Heirate Aslan are far too honour bound to stoop to slavery - their underlying culture would not permit it.

During their pre-industrial history I'm sure slavery would have existed from time to time as it does here on Earth.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Labourer: Labourer: You worked in whatever dead-end job was not being done by robots or slaves

2. Hkisyeleaa slaver

3. The Aslan encountered several other sentient species in this expansionist era. Primitive species were enslaved or even eaten by the Aslan; the practise of treating sophonts as prey continued for another five hundred years, until a great philosopher named Aewier convinced the clans that this was rukhiywe (un-Aslan) behaviour.

4.The Border Wars still evoke terror in many of the worlds invaded by the Aslan. The skies would darken with attack ships; huge goldenfurred monsters would drop down on grav belts to storm the cities; children would be taken as slaves and those who attempted to hide from the Aslan would be butchered or even eaten.

5. Arerl (Slave Machine, TL12): Arerl (Slave Machine, TL12): These are humanoid robots, mass produced and used for labour. The Aslan could perhaps have developed more efficient non-humanoid designs but the arerl appeals to some atavistic instinct in the Aslan.

6. The Glorious Empire adapted their Hkisyeleaas for slave raiding. Unfortunate humans were captured by Aslan raiders riding ATVs or air/rafts and thrown into the freezing chambers. A fully-stocked Slaver can carry more than 1,500 slaves if the captain is willing to cram as many bodies as possible into the low berths; 750 is a ‘safe’ number. Slavers are comparatively lightly armed and have little protection from attackers, so they are normally escorted by more combatready ships.

7. A livestock or slave market in progress

8. The Aslan also use far more labourers than a comparable high-tech human world – while they do use robots, it is a sign of prestige to use living labourers or even non-Aslan slaves.

9. Slave pen

10. While the Tlaukhu had just outlawed slavery under the terms of the Grand Conclave, the Tokouea’we embraced it. Human slaves drove the expansion of the Tokouea’we clan, until it was the single greatest Aslan military power in the sector.

11.The Glorious Empire has survived, albeit somewhat diminished, to the present day and still enslaves humans for brute labour and cannon fodder.

12. The economy of the Glorious Empire is founded on slavery – between 30% to 60% of its population are humans (exact tallies are hard to come by, as the Empire is fiercely xenophobic), who were enslaved by the Empire during its expansionist period.

13. Its sole exports are mercenaries and its economy is stagnating due to the lack of skilled technicians among the slave caste.

14. Aside from practicing slavery, Glorious Empire culture is much like traditional Aslan culture.

and so on ...


Discovery Klingons, anyway.

 

[McPerth]

From TD 20, page 30:

Glorious Empire:(...)

Although dominated by Aslan, about one-third of the EMpire's population was human. Humans provided cheap labor, while Aslan enjoyed government and profesional positions.

(note: the past tense is because this talks about 1120, and he Glorious Empire feel in hands of Aslan Ihatei in 1119)

So, it does not talk about slavery, though some "caste" system exists that discrimates humans...

Of course, there may be other sources I don't remember right now, or that I just don't know about...

 

[aramis]

Creating new OTU content incompatible with CT/MT/TNE and errata creation are NOT the goals for the wiki.