General Aslan and slavery
- Thread starter Qstor2
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mike wightman
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I'm sorry but if that stuff is from MgT Aslan then it is worse than I thought...
someone either hasn't done their homework or are just writing their bad fanon into MgT canon.
I guess the MgT ATU is much more different to the OTU than I initially thought.
Or the author is a literary genius and is using the unreliable narrator to show the prejudice people have against the Aslan due to their oral histories and bias.
someone either hasn't done their homework or are just writing their bad fanon into MgT canon.
I guess the MgT ATU is much more different to the OTU than I initially thought.
Or the author is a literary genius and is using the unreliable narrator to show the prejudice people have against the Aslan due to their oral histories and bias.
It is from MgT Aslan.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Trouble is this is MgT canon...
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I'll go with the latter ...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Then that supplement has to be considered for some alternate universe since it is contradicted by all other extant canon. It's almost as if the author hasn't actually read the CT Alien module, GT Alien Races 2 or DGP's Solomani and Aslan and has instead just wtitten up their own house universe interpretation of them. Or it is a brilliant piece of incorrect in-universe propaganda.
Like I said earlier the idea of deviant clans and the Glorious Empire are perfectly understandable from existing canon, the idea that the Aslan had a history of eating intelligent species and taking slaves is not backed up by canon.
I suppose the races of the Reaches etc are going to have a lot of scare stories about the Aslan, but I bet the Aslan who share a border with the Solomani tell tales of Solomani atrocities and dishonourable conduct too.
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Qstor2
SOC-13
Thanks for all that posted. I'd prefer that the Kzinti stay out of Traveller apart from being a general inspiration for the Aslan. It looks like it's just the Glorious Empire that practice slavery but I could see the Aslan using prisoners as labor.
Or perhaps as "serfs" on a landholding or as indentured servants bound to their "ko" (i.e. "lord"), with some version of feudal rights and obligations as defined by Aslan culture.
But not chattel slavery (at least not outside the "renegade" clans like the Glorious Empire).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yup, and then offer them vassal status and in the fullness of time the conquered humans actually become Aslan, able to form their own clans.
The Aslan are very different to Kzinti and Kilrathi - the closest literary match I use are the Hani from CJ Cherryh's Chanur novels.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I would say that assuming Humans becoming "Aslan" is more than a bit of over-reach. Aslan are a separate carnivore species, and I doubt would ever recognize a clearly inferior human in terms of size and innate combat capability as even remotely their equal.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It seems to be written in a documentary tone.
I doubt that the way it's described is sustainable, in that in order to supervise slaves doing more technical tasks, the females would need to supervise, whereas in a mine or similar environment, the males probably do understand what the slaves are supposed to be doing.
I doubt that the way it's described is sustainable, in that in order to supervise slaves doing more technical tasks, the females would need to supervise, whereas in a mine or similar environment, the males probably do understand what the slaves are supposed to be doing.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Nope.
Being an Aslan to an Aslan is a cultural thing. In much the same way they recognise gender by role rather than sex. If you live by Aslan customs, laws, culture and philosophy then you are an Aslan regardless of race.
Humans can become culturally Aslan and are recognised as Aslan. Whole worlds within the Heirate are populated by human Aslan.
Note this works both ways. Aslan living outside the Heirate can become culturally less than Aslan. The Aslan that became part of the Darrian polity are now culturally Darrian and are looked down on by Heirate Aslan.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
as mike says, the aslan consider being a Aslan to be as much a cultural thing as a racial thing, and its explicitly stated that a human who acts Aslan can and is accepted as a Aslan by racial Aslan. The (relative) lack of close combat ability is noted*, but not actually a bar to social equity (after all, the Aslan don't define their hierarchy on ability in duels, like the Clans of BattleTech). The human would likely lose any duel it fought, but since Aslan loose duels all the time their isn't a loss of social standing form the it.
also, its noted that the current Aslan culture is a monoculture imposed form the top down during the Long Night by the conservative and traditionalist victors of a long civil war, and that before this their was a lot greater variation among aslan culture (which included slavery in some form, in some clans). The Glorious Empire is explicitly a "rogue" state that clings to one of these old, slaver variants of aslan culture.
So, yes, "traditional" aslan do not practice slavery, but it was practiced to some degree in the past.
*its also noted that while "unarmed" duels with dewclaws are the most common form of duel, they are not the only form, and ones based on weapons use are not unknown. A sword or pistol duel would do much to level the playing field for a human duellist.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Outside of MgT where is there any evidence for that? The historical practice of slavery.
I have spent all day pouring over GT AR2 and DGP's Rats and Cats and I just can not find anything that is a reference to slavery.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
As far as I know, no, but I don't have any non MgT books, so I cant actually compare it to previous stuff, and see what was added.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
As a point of compromise, I think it would be safe to say that mainstream Aslan may have practiced chattel slavery at some point or points, but not as an entire race or polity, and not, except perhaps in the Glorious Empire, at all recently.
The long period of warfare in (once and future) Imperial space during the Long Night could certainly have seen some slavery, if only due to the much higher populations they were encountering compared to areas to spinward. Stumbling into one edge of a former empire that has the ability and temerity to fight back could cause all sorts of localized behaviors, and that period is not well documented.
The long period of warfare in (once and future) Imperial space during the Long Night could certainly have seen some slavery, if only due to the much higher populations they were encountering compared to areas to spinward. Stumbling into one edge of a former empire that has the ability and temerity to fight back could cause all sorts of localized behaviors, and that period is not well documented.
Qstor2
SOC-13
There's a reference on p. 30 of MgT AM 1 of human children being taken slaves during the Border Wars and eating sentient beings. I don't see those as very "honorable" but maybe I'm seeing the Aslan in the feudal Japan/Klingon lens too much.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I do not have a lot of Mongoose material, and the only alien module that I have is the one on the Sword Worlds, which definitely turned me off of getting any more.
Having said that, I suspect that you are turning the Aslan into humans with lion-like bodies, rather than a separate species with their own distinct motivations, desires, and drives.
It is up to the Game Master as to how he or she runs his or hers universe, so in that sense, all this thread does is increase the number of possibilities for running the Aslan. They can be nasty, territory defending carnivores who view all weaker creatures that are edible as food, or basically humans in lion-like bodies. Which ever fits your universe, as there cannot be a single right answer.
Having said that, I suspect that you are turning the Aslan into humans with lion-like bodies, rather than a separate species with their own distinct motivations, desires, and drives.
It is up to the Game Master as to how he or she runs his or hers universe, so in that sense, all this thread does is increase the number of possibilities for running the Aslan. They can be nasty, territory defending carnivores who view all weaker creatures that are edible as food, or basically humans in lion-like bodies. Which ever fits your universe, as there cannot be a single right answer.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Another strictly Mongoose thing, and one also obviously derived from Kzinti.
A touch of slavery I might accept. Cannibalism sounds like a deviant act that would be viewed poorly by their own. As a point of propaganda by either the Solomani or the Aslan themselves as they take hostages for good behavior ("We take your future captive. Behave or we will eat it.") I could see it taking on the whiff of truth over the centuries and parsecs.
They do, as it's clearly explained with the Zodia Colonies, In Iwahfuah sector (spinward from Dark nebula).
As explained in MT:S&A page 49 sidebar, those human populated worlds are fully seen as culturally Aslan, becoming huweihwoweiy (with us in spirit) for the Aslan.
