Aslan Preview

[atpollard]

Yes, but if the combined weight of 2,500 years of scientific evidence has failed to turn up credible evidence of psionic Aslans, no credible expert would clain that it was a well-known, albeit rare, phenomenon, and if psionic Aslans were known, albeit rare, no credible expert will claim that's it's unknown. One of the two remains credible only until the matter is settled. Which a single statement in the authorial voice will do. At that point Shrödinger's Expert dissapears in a cloud of logic.

I have seen an Elephant and the Statue of Liberty both made to disappear, yet in spite of the overwhelming evidence, I still refuse to view Magic as real and hold onto the belief that it is all Hocus Pocus tricks.

Among a race in which Psions hold the same level of scientific verification as Earth Ninja, how can one argue so vehemently FOR PROOF OF PSIONICS being common knowledge. We have had 6000 years of recorded human history to proove of disprove magic, religion and ESP, yet the existance of all three is still debated.

Surely Psionic Aslan Assasins deserve at least a little doubt among the general public.

 

[Whipsnade]

NO edition of Traveller describes Psionics in general as ‘common’ and ABSOLUTELY NO version of Traveller implies that Psionic Aslan would represent something even un-common. Even among the two clans mentioned, Psionic Aslan Assassins must be rare [can any reasonable case be made for a clan in which even 10% of the adult population is a Psionic Assasin?]

AT,

However, the previous editions explicitly state that the rarity of Aslan psions is do to the lack of opportunities for training.

MgT:Aslan states, and I'll quote it in full for the third time in this thread alone that:

Psionic ability is virtually unheard-of among the Aslan and there is some doubt as to whether or not the race is naturally psionic. The few known cases of Aslan possessing such abilities are all shrouded in either mysticism or can be attributed to genetic manipulation or alien technology. Aslan Player Characters may not possess any psionic ability at the start of the game.

Please note how it is doubted that the race is naturally psionic. Note how there few known cases, not a few percent or fraction of a percent of the population, but a few cases. Further note how those few cases have been explained away through mysticism - meaning they're urban legends - geneering, or the effects of alien technology.

Now compare that to CT and MT where we're told Aslan psions are rare due to the previously mentioned lack of training and we're also told explicitly how Aslan psionic strength is lost through aging and what the psionic point costs are for Aslan psions attempting to effect alien species.

These two depictions of Aslan psionics cannot be more different.

MgT has made a change, not a mistake as first feared, but a change. This isn't a case of a different interpretation, or a different spin, or being almost the same. It's a change and a change Mongoose is perfectly within their rights in making.

Whether or not that change is beneficial is up to individual players and GMs to decide. Aslan psionics in MgT at the moment will require houserules and that could very change in the future, but the fact of the matter is that the psionic option for the Aslan has been removed from the MgT game. Players and GMs wishing to use it now have to add it whereas in the past players and GMs wishing not to use it only had to ignore it.

The change has been made, the change has been admitted, and suggesting that it really isn't a change ignores what has been posted in this thread by Mongoose's owner himself.


Regards,
Bill

 

[rust]

And as for the OTU only, there's even an IMTU forum!

True, but a new Mongoose Traveller player obviously looks to the Mongoose
Traveller threads first, which he can read without having to register. To read
the IMTU forum, he would have to register, but if nothing on the Mongoose
forum encourages him to do so ...

 

[rancke]

I have seen an Elephant and the Statue of Liberty both made to disappear, yet in spite of the overwhelming evidence, I still refuse to view Magic as real and hold onto the belief that it is all Hocus Pocus tricks.

Do you know of any credible experts who claim there have been authenticated instances of real magic? If magic actually was real, albeit rare, do you think there's be some?

Among a race in which Psions hold the same level of scientific verification as Earth Ninja, how can one argue so vehemently FOR PROOF OF PSIONICS being common knowledge.

Because if Aslans with psionic abilities were real, albeit rare, there would be scientific studies and reliable eye-witness reports. Since I don't believe that magic is real, I don't think magic is a valid analogy. Nor are ninjas a valid analogy for Aslan assassins. Aslan assassins don't hide who they are and what they can do. Nor are they hunted as criminals by the society they live in.

We have had 6000 years of recorded human history to prove of disprove magic, religion and ESP, yet the existance of all three is still debated.

Magic is, IMO, disproved up the wazoo. Religion is, by definition, not susceptible to proof, and if psionics were as reliable on Earth today as the Traveller rules describe them, they wouldn't be disputed on Earth today.

Surely Psionic Aslan Assassins deserve at least a little doubt among the general public.

I don't think they do, and certainly they don't deserve any doubt among anyone who has read statements in the authorial voice about them.


Hans

 

[atpollard]

AT,
MgT has made a change, not a mistake as first feared, but a change. This isn't a case of a different interpretation, or a different spin, or being almost the same. It's a change and a change Mongoose is perfectly within their rights in making.

No argument from me on the fact that they changed it, but the point that I was making was the actual EFFECT on a Traveller game would be to make things closer to historic cannon since:

"THERE ARE NO PSIONIC ASLAN" (per MgT) is actually closer to the

"PSIONIC ASLAN ARE RARE" (per MT) than the reality of

"YOU CAN'T SWING A DEAD CAT WITHOUT HITTING A PSIONIC PC ASLAN" (based on my personal experience with rules and player luck).

If MgT had written that "only the very rare Red Spotted Aslan are known to possess psionics" do you doubt that Red Spotted Aslan would be ANYTHING BUT rare among PC Aslan?

 

[RandyT0001]

Who started it doesn't matter. You could have said the same without being insulting. Be respectful. Even when you are telling someone else that they are wrong (even if they are completely wrong), don't insult someone in the process.

You're right who started it doesn't matter. So let's move on. I await your posts to Matt and Frody about how they shouldn't come to this board with (Frody's) disrespectable attitude and (Matt's) disrespectable dismission. I would not want to feel slighted by unequeal treatment if you didn't.

 

[drh]

"THERE ARE NO PSIONIC ASLAN" (per MgT)

MGT doesn't say that though. It just says that PCs can't be Aslan, not that there aren't any at all.

 

[atpollard]

Do you know of any credible experts who claim there have been authenticated instances of real magic? If magic actually was real, albeit rare, do you think there's be some?

They call themselves wiccans.
Yes, I know some.
No, I don't believe their claims.
... but they do.

I don't think they do, and certainly they don't deserve any doubt among anyone who has read statements in the authorial voice about them.

Actually, Mongoose was clear about there being no doubt. All claims investigated were mystic bunk, genetic manipulations or alien technology. There are no MgT Psion Aslan PCs (unless the ref wants them).

I was actually more taken aback by the ferocity of your convictions about quantification of such an intangible quantity as psionics. We will need to agree to disagree and part as friends.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I would not want to feel slighted by unequeal treatment if you didn't.

Whenever I see you being told that you do not "get" Traveller or that you do not know Traveller because you choose one piece of canon over another. When I see that you are being shouted down while attempting to be civil. When I see someone insulting you and not something you may or may not have done. When I see people criticizing everything about you regardless as to what it is.

When I see this happen for months on end.

Whenever civil discussion is damn near impossible because a thread explodes to 40 pages in less than a week.

I'll speak up then. No sooner. Until then it is up for you and any others involved to try to work things out.

Like I said before, I don't stick my nose into things that do not concern me.

 

[Whipsnade]

There are no MgT Psion Aslan PCs (unless the ref wants them).

AT,

And if he or his players want them he has to make his own rules.

Which, again, is entirely opposite of what was possible before:

Pre-MgT:

GM and/or Players: We want psionic Aslan.
GM: Here are the rules.

or

GM and/or Players: We do not want psionic Aslan.
GM: Here are the rules I can ignore.


With MgT:

GM and/or Players: We want psionic Aslan.
GM: I need to come up with some rules then.

or

GM and/or Players: We do not want psionic Aslan.
GM: Thankfully there are already no rules for that.

This thread began with two questions; "Was the removal of psionics a mistake" and "Will the removal of psionics effect the game"?. We now know the answer to the first was that it was not a mistake. The answer to the second can only be truly answered by individual GMs and players. Because of that, the second answer is really a multitude of answers.


Regards,
Bill

 

[atpollard]

AT,
This thread began with two questions; "Was the removal of psionics a mistake" and "Will the removal of psionics effect the game"?

... and has completely ignored the eight fingers.

 

[RandyT0001]

Whenever I see you being told that you do not "get" Traveller or that you do not know Traveller because you choose one piece of canon over another. When I see that you are being shouted down while attempting to be civil. When I see someone insulting you and not something you may or may not have done. When I see people criticizing everything about you regardless as to what it is.

When I see this happen for months on end.

Whenever civil discussion is damn near impossible because a thread explodes to 40 pages in less than a week.

I'll speak up then. No sooner. Until then it is up for you and any others involved to try to work things out.

So you didn't take the time to try to understand my post or any of the posts I referred to, you just judged me based on that one post.

Like I said before, I don't stick my nose into things that do not concern me.

You might want to try a bit harder about where you don't insert your nose, especially if you're not going to take some time to try to understand the conversation in question.

 

[rancke]

They call themselves wiccans.
Yes, I know some.
No, I don't believe their claims.
... but they do.

And do you consider them to be credible experts?

Actually, Mongoose was clear about there being no doubt. All claims investigated were mystic bunk, genetic manipulations or alien technology. There are no MgT Psion Aslan PCs (unless the ref wants them).

I was actually more taken aback by the ferocity of your convictions about quantification of such an intangible quantity as psionics.

But it's not intangible in the Traveller Universe. All PCs (except Hivers and MGTU Aslans ) have psionic potential. There are people who can teach any player character (whose power has not yet deteriorated to 0) how to use them. If psionic Aslans assassins did exist, there are people who can witness an Aslan assassin teleport into a room and deliver a challenge, and be believed. Why not? Everybody knows psionics exists. Any rumor that no Aslans know psionics is much more likely to be dismissed. After all, how can you prove that they don't?

We will need to agree to disagree and part as friends.

I'm all for the friends bit, but do you really have to leave?


Hans

 

[Klaus]

What have been Mongoose's canon transgressions to date.

I'm going to ignore artillery ranges, as that is not an OTU issue.

As far as I can tell, and from this thread, it amounts to this:

1. Magrail disk shooters. (not really OTU again, but has been perceived as such).
2. Bay weapons on vessels less than 1000 tons.
3. Aslan psionics made apocryphal, and no beginning aslan pc psionics.
4. A darker interpretation of the IISS (highly subjective).
5. A single mention of Aslan being uplifted in Scouts that I cannot seem to find.
6. Artillery battle dress (again, highly subjective).
7. erm, can't think of any more OTU controversies....

So 6 points of conflict, a couple of which are highly debatable. And yet this produces 40 page threads decrying Mongoose's ability to write the OTU. OK, slight exaggeration, but don't people think the level of complaint is a bit of a monumental over reaction itself?

Has a previous edition of Traveller had so few points of canon conflict?

A much graver issue for me is the distinct lack of airlocks in the deckplans. :devil: The Type S and the A2 come top with 3 each. A few other vessels have one or maybe two, and most have none, including all the capital ships save for the superfreighter, which has its own EVA deck.

If people want something to complain about, and I'm afraid this is the impression this board gives, with a few vocal contributors seemingly suspicious of anything Mongoose does, then this issue has much more merit.

(and I'm only being little bit facetious here )

BTW, the Sloan is in High Guard, and a somewhat trodden on Chrysanthemum is in Trader's and Gunboats. And they are updated.

 

[rancke]

So 6 points of conflict, a couple of which are highly debatable. And yet this produces 40 page threads decrying Mongoose's ability to write the OTU. OK, slight exaggeration, but don't people think the level of complaint is a bit of a monumental over reaction itself?

It would have been if it actually had been 40 pages of complaints about six points of conflict, a couple of which were highly debatable. However, a lot of it are reactions to the complaints, reactions to the reactions to the complaints, reactions to the... need I go on?

Has a previous edition of Traveller had so few points of canon conflict?

Ah, the "others were a lot worse" red herring. It's not a good excuse, and there were complaints about canon inconsistencies in previous versions too. Back to the days where there were only one version.

A much graver issue for me is the distinct lack of airlocks in the deckplans. :devil: The Type S and the A2 come top with 3 each. A few other vessels have one or maybe two, and most have none, including all the capital ships save for the superfreighter, which has its own EVA deck.

That's a legitimate complaint, I'd say.

If people want something to complain about, and I'm afraid this is the impression this board gives, with a few vocal contributors seemingly suspicious of anything Mongoose does, then this issue has much more merit.

Believe me, nothing would please me more than a complete lack of things about MGT of which to complain.

BTW, the Sloan is in High Guard, and a somewhat trodden on Chrysanthemum is in Trader's and Gunboats. And they are updated.

Updated with bays?


Hans

 

[Ishmael]

so....
if Aslan feet are similar in 'construction' to their hands as is seemingly common in real-world animals ( because of evolution from going on all 4's? ),

Do Aslan have retractable dew-claws on their feet between the toes and 'heel'?
How would they use it to fight if they can't kick backwards like the Vargr ( both being digigrade and all )?... or do they use it in a like fashion to a Deinonychus (sp?)...

< good lord...anything to end the psi arguments! >


Traveller?... hard science?...bwahahahahahahahaahahahah!
Traveller? detailed economic systems? bwahahahahahaahahahahahhahaha

 

[far-trader]

...Droyne with lasers on their heads...

That one was a joke too. At least I hope so. I mean it makes no sense at all. We all know the only Traveller race deserving of friggin lasers on their heads are the Terran uplifted dolphins.

(just to be clear, ok)

 

[Supplement Four]

That one was a joke too. At least I hope so. I mean it makes no sense at all. We all know the only Traveller race deserving of friggin lasers on their heads are the Terran uplifted dolphins.

(just to be clear, ok)

I thought the antlers were a joke when first mentioned. Doesn't look like they were joking.

 

[rancke]

I thought the antlers were a joke when first mentioned. Doesn't look like they were joking.

To me it looks like taking the joke to a higher level. How long do you think it'll take an artist to put antlers on an existing drawing? I think you should ask Matt for your leg back.



Hans

 

[far-trader]

I thought the antlers were a joke when first mentioned. Doesn't look like they were joking.

Meh, I'm still waiting for Matt to come back and say April Fools Until then (and me pointing out he needs to turn some pages on his calendar) or he says "Gosh. No guys, I am dead serious, this is the Mongoose Vargr."* I going to continue operating under the theory that Matt has a fine sense of humour

That said I am afraid (was from the start) that some might take it seriously.

* note to Matt, please don't torture me by doing that as a joke without a smiley