Banana Republics

[Chaos]

Hi,

I was just thinking that a lot of planetary governments, especially in the smaller polities and independent systems, could probably be called banana republics by our standards.
However, I wonder, since just as probably nobody except a few historians remembers what that term was about, would they still be called "banana republics"?
And, if they are not called banana republics, what ARE they called?

And, of course, are there any other 20th-/21st-century terms like this one that would not mean anything to Imperials any more, and what would they be replaced with?

 

[Lapthorn]

Hydrogen republics?! (If that is their only valuable commodity)

 

[jawillroy]

Since we're talking about planetary governments, I might call them "Dirtside Empires." I think that has the right level of derision...

 

[Jame]

Since we're talking about planetary governments, I might call them "Dirtside Empires." I think that has the right level of derision...

This has been adopted. :smirk:

 

[Darkhstarr]

Depending on viewpoint, I've had players refer to them on occasion as 'bandits' or 'marks'. I've had a few high powered (or simply arrogant) call them 'dustspecks'. Imperial In the same view I've have major transport lines & space navies (including the Imperium) refer to Free Traders as 'pirates'.

 

[aramis]

One of the classics is "local yokels"... yes, it's a modern derogatory, but it fits nicely.

Another, more polite: "Spaceflight Challenged Society"

Also: Ball-grabbers, rock rats, willfully ignorant savages.

 

[deniable]

"Locals" if we're being subtle. I always liked "wogs" from David Drake's RCN series. The term's been around a lot longer, but the usage is spot on.

 

[veltyen]

"Locals" if we're being subtle. I always liked "wogs" from David Drake's RCN series. The term's been around a lot longer, but the usage is spot on.

If you are going to use "wogs" go the whole hog and just call them "ground n[...]".

 

[otherles]

If you are going to use "wogs" go the whole hog and just call them "ground n[...]".

Certain terms should be extinct in the 57th Century.

 

[aramis]

If you are going to use "wogs" go the whole hog and just call them "ground n[...]".

Let's Not.

Wog is supposedly derived from "Worthy Oriental Gentleman"... and the saying goes, "Wogs begin at Calais."

The n word is generally just plain offfensive.

 

[veltyen]

Certain terms should be extinct in the 57th Century.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unlikely to however, human behaviour hasn't significantly changed in at least that long. Specific terms would come and go, but their equivalents would still be around.

<personal information> Where I grew up if you called someone a wog (and you weren't greek or italian) you would be lucky to get away alive. Getting away walking wasn't an option. My original response was from that cultural filter, which is unlikely to be universally shared. If anything n[.] was a less offensive term in that context. Apologies for any confusion my original response may have caused.

 

[veltyen]

Let's Not.

Wog is supposedly derived from "Worthy Oriental Gentleman"... and the saying goes, "Wogs begin at Calais."

The n word is generally just plain offfensive.

The waves of post WWII immigrants in Australia, and specifically their descendents may not agree with you there.

Oddly though the tendency for alienated groups to normalise derogatory terms over time is a common factor. Starting with the casualisation of the use of the terms involved in group, and eventually normalising their use elsewhere. This takes time, and that time taken is highly variable.

As I've already pointed out, my initial response was from a slightly different cultural filter where the W-word was at least as insulting and offensive as the N-word.

 

[Icosahedron]

For the next group up, the independent systems and small pocket empires, how about 'boatbuilders' to highlight the fact that they have little or no interstellar capability.

I love Dirtside Empires, It's gone in my Traveller Dictionary too.

 

[deniable]

As I've already pointed out, my initial response was from a slightly different cultural filter where the W-word was at least as insulting and offensive as the N-word.

I was pointing out that Drake's (mis)use of the term was spot on FOR THIS TOPIC. Read the books.

I'll leave it there because an all Australian flame-war would upset the tourists.

 

[jawillroy]

As for the discussion of the N and W and variously alphabet-designated wordbombs, quick let's stop before this whole shebang gets dragged into The Pit.

I'm sure we can come up with plenty more ORIGINAL and relevant derogatory terms with which to pepper our games!

Especially for the filthy groundhogs and credulous blueskyers.

 

[Golan2072]

Client State is probably the official (or academic) term for this, as long as the 'Banana Republic' in bound in 'banana-republic-style' 'banana'-trade-relationships and political/military relationships with a starfaring power. This term was used by the Romans two thousand years ago and is still used today, so it might survive another 3,000 years as well...

 

[pendragonman]

Wog is supposedly derived from "Worthy Oriental Gentleman"... and the saying goes, "Wogs begin at Calais."

and go East from there:rofl:


As to the N word and the W word:

Context is everything. The N word has a well deserved derogatory reputation in North America at least, and I think in South America and Africa too. Meanwhile, for those on the Pacific Rim, W has certainly the worse reputation.

But that is exactly the point. We are trying to find a word that the locals will absolutely hate. A stereotype that they will strive mightily to remove from their world.

 

[Zowy]

I allways liked, Flatlander.

 

[Icosahedron]

I allways liked, Flatlander.

Isn't that a denizen of the OTU, as opposed to a 3D ATU? :devil:

 

[far-trader]

Well I've used POG for pre-spaceflight worlders. See if you can guess (context is a clue) or have heard the term. Then check your answer:

Spoiler:

Prisoners Of Gravity

But we're looking for terms for whole worlds or systems yes?

Rock Republic might fit some Asteroid (Belter mining) systems.

Generally though we only need one good "tag" (to replace Banana Republic) to use pejoratively and tongue in cheek for all the Poor Agri (Atm 4-5, Hyd 3 or 4, Pop 5-7)*, nasty dictatorial (TL pre-stellar, Gov B, Law high given the Gov) type worlds.

* Interesting, can't have a Poor Agri world in Traveller. Never really noticed before, or I'd forgotten. Hyd 3 would be Poor, Hyd 4 would be Agri, hence I blended it for this term. The real limiter will be the Gov type of course.

EDIT: Well I suppose Banana Republic would still work for that Nothing says the old terms can't come back in fashion. Someone once suggested the reason for so many 20th C Terran terms was a resurgence in ancient history as haute culture in the Imperium if you need an explanation.