Barely There: Ursa Worlds of the Imperium

[mike wightman]

I agree with some of the sentiment behind your post, but let's play devil's advocate for a while

Certain instinctual behaviors would be suppress in the Imperium over Usrae and Vargr Territories. Example of this would be: the natural instinct to leave the runt of the litter die. Infantcide was also mention in this thread. Aslan, Vargr and Usrae enclaves would be harassed or charged with Murder in such cases. The backlash would cause these three races to see the Human element of the Imperium as a threat. So you have to make a choice.

Canon source for Aslan and Vargr practicing infanticide please. I can give historical examples of human cultural infanticide, eugenics and ethnic cleansing (but this isn't the pit so I won't) but I don't recall it being mentioned in their Alien Modules.

First, the three above mention races living in the Imperium made the choice to live there. Their decision to do so has altered the view of their culture and they suppress instinctual behaviors because it is beneficial to their race as a whole.

Just as humans supress their instinctual nature for the sake of society.

Second, The Imperium is aware of these Instinctual behaviors and allow them to be practice. The Problem with is, if it acceptable in one culture to be killed over an insult, the discord and violence would be wide spread. Most humanoid races would see these races as disrupted and not allow them to settle within their territory. Such Alienation would sooner lead to a wider spread problems, forcing them to discuss and enact laws protecting these races, even setting up 'Districts' within their own empire to allow these races to thrive. Such power bases could eventually, topple the Imperium from within.

The Imperium doesn't tell member worlds what to do, and turns a blind eye to many a repulsive human culture on a member world. See the Traveller Adventure for examples of worlds like this.
The Imperium doesn't impose a culture on its member worlds.
Not in the frontier sectors at any rate - I have long suspected that the core sectors are under much more direct Imperial rule and culture.

Finally, The whole mindset of the Imperium is one of tolerance. Alien races are living within their border are allowed to do whatever they like on the planet they inhabit, while playing nice when on other worlds. Starports are evidence of this. But we also see the Imperium reacting to 'misbehaving planets' with superior firepower. Swear oath to the Emperior is not going to stop the bigotry or prejudice in the surrounding planets or planet side communities surrounding these enclave. The Imperium would spend more time and material suppress such actions, than guarding their borders. In the end, it would still be behavior modification through force.

The Imperium isn't tolerant, it is non-interventionist and deliberately ignorant of world culture. It couldn't give two hoots for the standard of living of 'Imperial citizens' on member worlds.

That is why I look at interstellar communities as melting pots. Alien Races CHOOSES to live under the central authority because it has it's advantages. Therefore, they adapt to this environment because it beneficial to their species. The exchange of ideas also effect the outlook of the race who has entered into this partnership.

Did they choose or was the choice made for them?

Now, those living in areas where the Central Authority is Vargr, Usrae or Aslan will do things differently than those living in the Imperium because that's who they are. So these 'Civilized' members of their race are seen with the same bigotry as those in Human dominated space. Hell, they may not even be allowed back into their territories for fear the Imperium is trying to subvert them.

In the end, it's a catch 22 for those Alien Races living under Imperium rule.

Why have you lumped the Aslan in with the Vargr and the Ursae? The Aslan are not an uplift - they are a race that attained sentience through evolutionary means and only have a passing resemblance to lions.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Because, if you do instinctual behavior in an Uplifted race, you have to look at the instinctive behavior in other races who were uplifted by the Ancients. After all they went through the same trial and error as the humans did with Ursae. If the Ancients, were perfect then all the races would wold still be under their control and there wouldn't have been a war or whatever reason was given for their disappearance.

All your point validate what I have been trying to say.

The Imperium rules by force and they will have there say in a culture no matter what. They spend more time solving squabbles than expanding or policing their borders. That is the huge flaw in the Imperium.

 

[kilemall]

Yes, but in this case this is only valid up to a point. The historical examples you are citing (i.e. Romans vs. provincials and foreigners/barbarians) are indeed different cultures, but all of the individuals of all cultures involved are of the same species, namely Homo sapiens.

In the case of the Ursae or Vargr, we are discussing different species whose behavior derives from a different physical neuropsychology that is biologically-based. As they are all sapient species, they will be able to modify their own behavior to a degree by choice, but it will be unnatural for them, depending upon how far the behavior changes stray from their species norms. Their different natural instincts will still generate unique emotional responses that are species-specific.

Nature vs. Nurture.

How do you explain Wojtek?

 

[kilemall]

Because, if you do instinctual behavior in an Uplifted race, you have to look at the instinctive behavior in other races who were uplifted by the Ancients. After all they went through the same trial and error as the humans did with Ursae. If the Ancients, were perfect then all the races would wold still be under their control and there wouldn't have been a war or whatever reason was given for their disappearance.

All your point validate what I have been trying to say.

The Imperium rules by force and they will have there say in a culture no matter what. They spend more time solving squabbles than expanding or policing their borders. That is the huge flaw in the Imperium.

I believe canon would tend to say no to this, but perhaps humans themselves are uplifts?

Also, I don't think the Imperium spends it's time making the children behave.

They let the kids go out back of the school and settle things with fists.

If one the kids brings a gun and starts shooting (ala nukes) or say disrupts street or business activity, then the Imperium steps in.

 

[whulorigan]

In the case of the Ursae or Vargr, we are discussing different species whose behavior derives from a different physical neuropsychology that is biologically-based. As they are all sapient species, they will be able to modify their own behavior to a degree by choice, but it will be unnatural for them, depending upon how far the behavior changes stray from their species norms. Their different natural instincts will still generate unique emotional responses that are species-specific.

Nature vs. Nurture.

How do you explain Wojtek?

Both the elements of nature and nurture are present in all species; they are not mutually exclusive (a point implicit in my statement above). Nurtured behavior is a template overlay onto Natural behavior.

Wojtek was a trained bear. Why does his case need special explanation?

 

[GypsyComet]

It's fascinating the read all this speculation on how interesting the Ursa could have been.

It is worth noting that *very* few races in Traveller get this level of sociological attention in print. The sketch we get for Ursa in T20 is about a page, including all the physiological data and game stats. They were likely left fairly sparse on purpose, as Hunter was coming from a D&D3 baseline, where squashing player imagination is not encouraged.

For comparison sake, the nearly trillion strong population of the Suerrat is given a couple paragraphs in GT and part of a two page Contact article from what may be the most obscure issues of JTAS to see print (the two issues done by IG). The Vilani get a couple pages of mushy psychoanalytical carp about stasis and consensus building. Despite being their ancestors, we can't adequately describe the society of the Solomani. Two major races have their social mores boiled down to almost single sentences in the consciousness of the fanbase...

So the Ursa getting short shrift in print is hardly a surprise. This game has a lot of ground to cover.

 

[Kilgs]

Although this appears to be a bit of a necro, I would throw in my 2cr by pointing out that there is NO basis for the Luriani to have pushed out the Ursa. Their racial memory of genocide is far too extreme thanks to the Vilani when it comes to such actions. Any attempt to wipe out another species even if not completely but on a local basis would have caused a massive backlash... The Imperium may have been involved in such but definitely not the Luriani.

 

[GypsyComet]

I suspect the reduction is not a genocide so much as a retroactive rollback. There are still some 1.6 million Ursa in the Trailing region, mostly on two worlds, and a similar number in Corridor. There could still be welcomed communities scattered across Luriani space that are just too small to register at the UWP level. Given the populations in Luriani space that could still be a LOT of Ursa hiding below the significant digits.

Greg Lee's developments imply that the Corridor population is dominantly Black Ursa (a bit smaller and less temperamental), while the Ley/Fornast population is dominantly Brown Ursa (larger and grumpier), though there are minorities of the other in each region. Those who want to use the non-Canon Raccoonids of Dentus in the Marches could add them to the Ursa family if that helps, but I doubt the original project would have adopted Polar Bears, as they make Grizzlies look calm and collected.

 

[GypsyComet]

That is why I look at interstellar communities as melting pots. Alien Races CHOOSES to live under the central authority because it has it's advantages. Therefore, they adapt to this environment because it beneficial to their species. The exchange of ideas also effect the outlook of the race who has entered into this partnership.

The depicted Imperium is a melting pot with an enormous, compartmented sideboard. Some races never get close to the pot, others allow the curious to check it out, and a few hold mass pool parties. The established solitary-yet-clannish nature of the Ursa puts them in the middle group in most cases. Most of the time, a Clan isn't going to imagine that it can proscribe contact if one of its solitaires decides that dealing with Humaniti is called for. That Clan is also not going to expect full buy-in if they decide to keep an open channel with Humaniti.

One way the melting pot helps the Ursa is that they are just another alien in a universe full of aliens. If a bear casually strolled into a University classroom, picked a seat, and started taking notes, we would freak out that a BEAR is doing these things. Because (we think) we know bears. But an Imperial University class will probably have a Vargr and one or two local aliens already in seats, so an Ursa is not a particularly big deal.