Brainstorming thread: Sector History

[Malenfant]

So, let's start thinking about what's been going on in the Spica Sector over the years up til IY 993 (if we decide to take it beyond that era, we can tack stuff onto this

).

First up, what do we know about any incursions by major races into this sector? When did they happen? Can we figure some of these dates from the Traveller timeline?

How about minor races? The Prt' are here, did they have any sublight travel capability? Did they have their own empire? Are they a major power in the region?

And did the Ancients do anything down here (let's avoid the gratuitous and rampant terraforming of the Marches though...!)?

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Relavent questions...

Who was/were the First Human/s to "discover" (Cross the Sector Border) Spica?

When was this?

Who was/were the First Hiver to do the same?

When was this?


Who are the beings in the non-alinged Systems?

Are they descended from the rest of Humaniti?

Are they Aliens? Humans?

Was the Sector Touched by any of the Old Empires?

What effect did the Long Night have?

 

[clementk]

Again personally I would avoid using any DGP material so as to avoid the whole fuzzy canon issue especially since this project is being constructed on QLI's site.

See this part of an earlier CSSP thread.

Casey

 

[mike wightman]

The history of the Hinterworlds sector may be of some help.
Humaniti entered the Hinterworlds circa -2100 Imp.

Merchants would travel to trailing of The Rule of Man as far as the young Hive Federation. (If they can do this through the Hinterworlds they can do this though Spica, especially since it is a more direct route to the capital of the Hive federation)

During the Long Night Solomani sleeper ships were sent out circa -700 Imp.

Note: Humaniti and Hivers first contact -1802 Imp (source MT Imperial Encyclopedia), so this is fair game

 

[Malenfant]

Was the Hiver border in this area by -1800 though? Or was that further to trailing?

 

[mike wightman]

It would have been much further to trailing IMHO.

 

[Malenfant]

When I get back from work tonight I'll see if GT AR3 has anything to say about early Hiver expansion (or someone else can have a look in the meantime

).

 

[mike wightman]

I've been looking at things from a Hiver perspective all afternoon, using Aliens of the Rim, CT Alien Module 7, and GT Alien Races 3.
The histories tend to stop with the end of the Hiver-K'kree war???

 

[RainOfSteel]

Sigg Oddra,

Yes, I noticed the same thing.

It's seems Hiver manipulation is keeping all knowledge of their species' history suppressed following that terrible incident with those pesky four-legs.

 

[RainOfSteel]

One thing I note, a major feature of Hiver history, is the transfer of the Capital to Glea in order to get the administrative nexus closer to the "Young Worlds". Since this was done in the direction of spinward and rimward, it comes directly into contact with the Solomani border.

The Young Worlds, I'm theorizing, are a major hotbed of Hiver interest. This places "major Hiver interests" directly on the backdoor of the Solomani. Hivers are all over the place, watching over their "adopted children". Hivers are fiercely protective parents (of their yearlings), Solomani incursions and attempts to expand in this direction are going to meet a wall (brick, goo, whatever) of resistence from which the Hivers are unlikely to back away.

This attitude of the Hivers, "So sorry, we're here, please do not consider development in this area," should have met with varying puzzlement and great frustration amongst the Solomani down through the years.

As we all know, Solomani are not wont to take no for an answer. A big war or two is, I feel, a certainty.


Additionally:

On the main thread, Paraquat suggests that the exact nature of how the Hivers stopped the K'Kree isn't common knowledge, and is, in fact, a deep dark secret of the race.

This would mean the Solomani might not be overly impressed with the Hiver reputation is master manipulators . . . oh, wait, since the big K'Kree manipulation might just be a secret, would their reputation for tampering really be that big? Maybe their reputation to other races is that they *think* of themselves as big time manipulators, but others think of them as fungal-walking-starfish . . . (who deploy really nasty warbots and client race infantry).

 

[RainOfSteel]

(Entries from Don McKinney's timeline.)

-3986: Hivers meet Ithklur. Alien Module 7 - Hivers, GDW, 1986, p. 17.

-3000: Thousand-year project to manipulate the Ithklur on Tryylin (2514 Extolian) into a more acceptable culture completes. Alien Module 7 - Hivers, GDW, 1986, p. 17.


I wonder how well-received the Hivers would be if this were wide-spread knowledge. It has far more serious conotations than the Hiver-K'Kree war.

 

[RainOfSteel]

(Entries from Don McKinney's timeline.)

-1802: First Solomani contact with Hiver. Alien Module 6 - Solomani, GDW, 1986, p. 12.

-1700: Terran colonists from Crucis Margin sector arrive in Kaa G!'kul sector, and are welcomed on thinly populated Hiver worlds, including Slurn (3240 Kaa G!'kul). Alien Module 7 - Hivers, GDW, 1986, p. 43.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
(Entries from Don McKinney's timeline.)

-3986: Hivers meet Ithklur. Alien Module 7 - Hivers, GDW, 1986, p. 17.

-3000: Thousand-year project to manipulate the Ithklur on Tryylin (2514 Extolian) into a more acceptable culture completes. Alien Module 7 - Hivers, GDW, 1986, p. 17.

I wonder how well-received the Hivers would be if this were wide-spread knowledge. It has far more serious conotations than the Hiver-K'Kree war.

Is it any more serious than anything the Solomani have done in their history though? Many times, we have encountered a new "race" of humans on our own world and then either (a) wiped them out by foreign disease, (b) subjugated them, exploited them, and/or sold them into slavery, or (c) told them that their way is wrong and our way is right, so change or we'll kill you (which is a far less. And it's still going on today in some form or another across the planet.

I wonder what the Hivers would make of that. By comparison, taking and focussing an aggressive race to become more passive is MUCH less worrying.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Gruffty:
I think it would be very ueful if someone could put together a dual timeline of known information for the Solomani and Hiver races. This would help clarify what happenend when (certainly for me, anyway!).

I think you're going to be disappointed at the length, or rather, at the lack thereof, for the Hivers.

 

[RainOfSteel]

This is crossposted from the borders thread, and continued on:


Note: The -2204 map suggests that the Solomani did the expanding toward Spica from the time of the 2nd Imperium to the Rim War. Sometime during that gap, approx. -1802 (according to Alien Module 6), the Solomani first found the Hivers (who were already in Spica). So, 400 years for explorers to reach Spica:Gamma, say, then the Long Night kicks off right after that.

I would say that the Solomani border doesn't actually make it into Spica until after the founding of the Imperium. It would be during the Dawn of the 3I, -100 to 400 or so, somewhere in there, than a big rush into Sol Sphere trailing would have commenced, extending out into Spica for a recontact with the Hivers (who probably weren't affected by the Long Night all that much). Given that this would be the 3I at that time, I'm going to suggest that a much overlooked 3I/Hiver conflict over territory (the Hiver "Young Worlds) gets under way. Say, 300 or so. Big naval conflicts and a couple of dozen major ground actions where the Imperium finds it doesn't really like facing the armies of Ithklur or warbots all that well. It's a stalemate, of course.

It's further interesting to note that the Hiver territory in -2204 stretches from roughly its Hiver-K'Kree border war areas (which hasn't yet happened) all the way to Spica. Their territory was quite far reaching when the 1st Imperium was falling down around itself. Naturally, its hard to tell with so spare a history, but it seems the Hivers have never suffered any big reversals or setbacks to their nation as a whole. And also haven't expanded a whole lot in 3000 odd years, either. Makes you wonder if those rim and trailing borders are really where the Hivers say they are . . .

 

[RainOfSteel]

Over in the Fifth Frontier War thread, Kafka47 asks Liam Devlin to write a soldier's homecoming story.

Naturally, it's a bit early to start coming up with adventure ideas, but . . .


Circa -1773. A second/third wave of Solomani explorer diplomats have arrived in Hiver space in Spica. The oncoming wave the of the Long Night strikes down the entire area of civilization behind them. They find themselves making their way back home out of Hiver space, across the barely explored region between the nations, into a home that no longer looks like it did when they left. Upon their discovery of what's happened, they take their ship for a reverse trip, back to Hiver space to seek the aid of the Federation in staving off the disaster rolling over human space. Do they make it? Are they stopped by those who wish the Long Night to come? Will the course of all history be changed?

 

[Liam Devlin]

From Far trader's observations [EUREKA!] the Hiver border never wavered in this sector, the Solomani border does/ did.

Hence we need to cover these "big shifts"-
the why they moved.

The initial 2nd Imperium RoM expansion towards Spica..

the "Long Night", as previously discussed accounts for one major recession and early 3I expansion back...leaving human occupied worlds near the more solid HF--plausible beginning of humans entering the federation during this time, [they are listed as one fo the races of the HF, IIRC].

A recession of the borders during the Rim War, due to economic and military reasons?

Interesting times..with human worlds looking at their histories between the two powers..who was more stable? Who offered more self autonomy? Or more help? Lots to work with here, guys..!

 

[clementk]

I think a seperate thread or threads for the timeline might be useful. Whoever starts the thread, I recomend Moderator Malenfant, maintains the timeline in the first post, updating as needed. That way there'd be a central collecting point or points for when things happen. At the moment it seems to be scattered around the place.

Since there doesn't seem to be a lot of dates on the Hiver side of things likely one timeline thread would do the job.

Casey

 

[Liam Devlin]

Good suggestion, Casey. Mal?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Okay, then, my current thoughts.

Effects of the Long Night on the Solomani Region.

I'd like to propose -1774, say maybe on dates 200-365, that the first "wave" of the effects of the Long Night strike the area.

-1774 to -1773: things start getting bad as banks in the area star collapsing in the typical domino effect.

-1773 to -1770: The entire region around Terra is locked in a hideous economic depression. 25% of workers everywhere have lost their jobs. Star travel begins to slow as the business that causes such travel contracts.

-1770 to -1760:New annual orders for durable goods have fallen 40%. Cargo and passenger services between worlds is becoming scarce and expensive. Unemployment in the region is 35%. Populations on some worlds are reduced to starvation diets.

-1750 to -1700:Unemployment reaches a staggering 50%. ROM Goverment processes in many areas cease altogether. By the end of this period, there is a drastic shortage of knowledgeable scientists, engineers, and technicians who are capable of research, design, and maintenence of existing high-tech infrastructure. Even mighty Terra is experiencing 25% unemployment, double digit inflation world-wide, and skyrocketing poverty rates.

-1700 to -1500:The last vestigal remnants of the ROM vanish into history. Worlds with critical technological support requirements are beginning to experience system difficulties as their otherwise highly reliable TL-12 (guessing on that TL) begin to fail without hope of repair or even someone knowledgable enough to repair them should parts be available. Only the great bastions, like Terra and a few others retain anything resembling a technological infrastructure. Lawless behavior is on the rise, as self-appointed warlords and local military officers seize power in coups on many worlds. Unpaid officers and crews in ships all the way up to battleship size defect from their military commands and take up life as pirates.

Circa -1500: The worst interstellar depression ever grips the region. Long range interstellar travel is very difficult. Stations with ready refined fuel are few and far between. Frontier refueling is required in most cases, often adding considerable delays to any journey.


Pre-Collapse Expansion Thoughts and Spica Colony Thoughts

Circa -2204, the Solomani were totally occupied with taking over the First Imperium and turning it into the Rule of Man.

Expansion toward Spica would have been minimal.

With exploratory *initial* contact only coming in -1802, it would seem to suggest that any settlements created by sleeper ship from before the Jump Drive (say, 3-6 worlds all told throughout the entirety of the Sector) did *not* have sufficient technology to go visiting the Hivers, or be visited (publicly) by the Hivers in turn.

So, this leads me to lean toward believing settlement in the area by humans is spare to nearly non-existant in -1802. Now, with explorers coming through in -1802, and settlers hot on their heals through -1774 (which is when the effects of the Long Night are first felt).

-1770: All financial and material support to the Spican colonies is reduced by 25% to 50%.

-1750: Almost all support to the Spican colonies is gone, only comm ships and a few ships carrying critical medical supplies make it through this area.

-1700: All contact with the Spican colonies ceases. The Hivers send covert missions through the area to observe humanity more closely while it is not in a good position to notice this observation.