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Building Armies

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Knight
So I've been looking at the various rules for estimating army sizes and strengths in Traveller with a view to adapting them to T5 and just now a random discussion with Aramis about the Hawkmen army on Mongo in Flash Gordon has prompted me to ask the following question:

What are the best rules for building armies in Traveller?

Some choices:

  • Troops in the Fifth Frontier War in JTAS 10
  • MegaTraveller's rebellion Sourcebook: Armies of the Imperium
  • Gurps Traveller: Ground Forces
  • Something else from Traveller
  • Something else from another system or generic rules system

Personally I like the level of detail in GT Ground Forces but I'm hesitant about adapting some of the modifiers to T5 which is closer to the unadulterated FFW tables found in JTAS.

What I'm thinking is use the JTAS 10 article and the process from GT: Ground Forces.

Is there a better way? Or are there other useful rules and systems I should look at?
 
I would look at the world or empire, or whatever's GDP. That is something already available, to an extent, in Traveller, particularly the more recent versions.
Once you know what the political entity's GDP is you have somewhere between 1 and 30% of that to spend on a military. Going over 30% pretty much involves eating the economy to supply the army. I'd say 1 to 5% for peaceful, more democratic entities, while 5 to 15% is typical for ones facing a known threat. Above 15% you need either a dictatorship or an actual war to maintain that level of spending.

Since all of the design systems in Traveller include costs, it's easy to see then determine what the equipment will run. Add in the cost of maintenance and ammunition, then determine the cost of the troops, again based on what they're paid per month per the rules.
 
You can have short term surges, but unless you've built up very large arsenals and essential commodity stockpiles, the government has to balance between training and deploying large number of combatants and support personnel, and keeping the economy running with enough manpower.
 
You can have short term surges, but unless you've built up very large arsenals and essential commodity stockpiles, the government has to balance between training and deploying large number of combatants and support personnel, and keeping the economy running with enough manpower.

Exactly. The usual line is at about 20% maximum. Unless there is a clear an present threat going over 10% is going to hurt the economy. You can go to about 30% in war, and for a few years maybe even raise that to 40% of GDP but then the economy crashes afterwards due to the amount of defense spending you were doing.

Systems with no clear threat would likely not want to willingly go above about 5% unless they're dictatorships bent on expansion, colonial adventures, or imperialism and war.
 
Right. So I'm not a fan of figuring out the economy and then budgeting for the armed forces.

The JTAS 10 FFW and GT:Ground Forces both calculate based on world population and adjust for tech level to give the number of BEs.

BEs are battalion equivalents representing a combat unit of about 500 troops.

I like the way both systems give this raw figure first. Once I have that I look at both the economy and threat level to adjust the active BEs. I treat the raw BE figure as a total military pool and figure it represents active, reserve and un embodied troops not necessarily what the government can afford to keep as a standing army.

What I'm aiming for is a system that can quickly generate BEs for a world, subsector and sector and I can add various levels of detail or colour later.

You know what?

I'm looking for an ArmyMaker for T5!

Okay guys you've helped me refine my aims. Off the top of my head an ArmyMaker should give results that are in line with OTU canon and conform to T5 information (such as the Soldier career). ArmyMaker would cover ground forces, wet navy and aerospace forces and a separate NavyMaker would cover space forces.

Importance Extension RUs and Cultural Extension could replace the GT:GF modifiers.
 
Striker is good for building up to reinforced battalions, but it is granuala and not really good for big force builds BE per se, being more oriented to miniatures Mercenary Plus.

I'd also say the expense of a BE force rises with it's tech level and composition.

Striker does have a genericized combat forces taxation and building scheme like TCS did for High Guard, along with a cost of operations mechanic to make operating higher tech then local very expensive so its' a tradeoff for merc outfits to decide and then live or die.

But it could also cover a lower tech government buying local most of the time, but importing cheaper lower tech equipment for low-end purposes, and having that surprise meson artillery ace up their sleeve for higher tech mercs and marauders.

Striker Book 2, Rule 72, basically a calc of the world's GNP by population multiplied by per capita increasing by TL, and further modified by trading codes.

Then you make a determination of 1-15% of GNP going to armed forces (as noted above you could have higher followed by a collapse), 30% gets skimmed by the Imperium if OTU or maybe other interstellar polities, and army gets 40% of that.

Starport grade greatly influences cost of importing equipment.

Also rules for maintenance and personnel quality costs.

This approach doesn't really lend itself to a BE formula approach, as just the personnel costs alone dictate differences in doctrine and force structure due to the economy and potential adversaries.

It's MCr10 per year per 1000 troops, ranging to MCr50 for elite troops. That alone is going to put some hard choices on unit composition.

There are also significant cost differences between an armor, cav/mech, garrison or infantry battalion, and between wheeled/tracked and grav.
 
I would look at the world or empire, or whatever's GDP. That is something already available, to an extent, in Traveller, particularly the more recent versions.
Once you know what the political entity's GDP is you have somewhere between 1 and 30% of that to spend on a military. Going over 30% pretty much involves eating the economy to supply the army. I'd say 1 to 5% for peaceful, more democratic entities, while 5 to 15% is typical for ones facing a known threat. Above 15% you need either a dictatorship or an actual war to maintain that level of spending.

Since all of the design systems in Traveller include costs, it's easy to see then determine what the equipment will run. Add in the cost of maintenance and ammunition, then determine the cost of the troops, again based on what they're paid per month per the rules.

Another factor to be considered is the government type, with the lower the level of government type, the less likely the government is going to put money into the military. Take a look at US military spending prior to World War One and World War Two, and you will see exactly how little the US was willing to put into a military. The same thing held true in England during the mid to late 1930s. Then there is also the matter of population. A very high GDP with a low population means a limited number of personnel devoted to the military. In a peacetime situation, you will have less than 1% of the population in the military, and often less than that. The US Army in 1939 was 188,565 total personnel, with that figure from the US Army Official History. The US population was over 100 million. The maximum number of military personnel a nation can afford to put into uniform without breaking the economy is 10%, and that does assume a large input of women into the workforce.

One exception to the low government level would be the Civil Service Bureaucracy, which also will work against defense spending. Religious government would be a toss-up, depending on how you view religion.

Then there is the number of support troops required to keep the combat troops going. That number will range somewhere between 2 and 4, unless you are talking aircraft, in which case the number will be somewhere around 10 to 25 per aircraft.

Generally, spending less than 2% means that the military is for show only, with very limited staying power. Five percent is a reasonable peacetime figure for a government facing some form of threat, with 10% meaning that the threat is quite high. The UK in World War 2 managed to get to 60% for one year, but that was eating into the capital base and did severe damage to the economy.

Remember to that the level of defense spending would have to include any form of space force as well, which would tend to be capital expensive, as well as costing more it terms of manpower. Considerably more skill and intelligence is needed to run a fusion or fission plant verses carrying a rifle. Those will cost more to enlist and retain. The US Navy did much better in terms of budget allocation during the years between World War One and World War Two for several reasons. One was that the Navy was viewed as the first line of defense of the US. Second, ships being built in shipyards meant jobs in Congressional Districts, which helped get Congressmen re-elected. The same was somewhat true for the Royal Navy, except they got hit a bit more by the Depression, and actually reduced the sailor's pay, which got a tad sticky. Throw in the RAF, and the Royal Army was on the short end of the budget.

If you include spending for a Space Navy, that force is going to get the major portion of the budget, somewhere around 60 to 70 percent, with the Army getting what is left. If by "Army" is meant the entire surfaces forces of a planet, then you will have budget battles among them as well. The safest assumption is that the ground troops will get the least in any budget.
 
There is also the military-building rules in TNE/Path of Tears and World Tamers Handbook as another option to consider.

I don't think the CT/Striker method is the way to go at all. Far too much work for more than a single world's military. And its canonicity is dubious anyway.
 
Quite a while ago I worked up a simple game to build a defense establishment for a class I was teaching. I am not sure if I still have that somewhere on a computer or hard drive or not. It was intended for the current Earth technology level and situation, but it might still give some ideas. Would there be any interest in my digging it out?
 
I did briefly mention government, but you are correct Timeover, the type will matter as will the level of perceived threat the system is facing.
Another aspect is what a world is willing to pay its troops. If there is say a draft (be it because of a threat or being a government "make-work" program) the pay for draftees might be quite low. A long service career volunteer force on the other hand might see better pay and benefits. On worlds with few opportunities for employment the military might be seen as a good job even with low pay involved.
While the rules cover this in a general way there is a lot of room for expansion still.


As for battalion equivalents, this is going to be hard to do if you are dealing with disparate tech levels. I'd think that as TL increases the number of actual combatants in a battalion would fall even as the number of technicians would rise.
So, you might have at TL 4 or 5 500 troops of which 450 are combatants and 50 are support. At TL 14 it might be more like 50 combatants and 450 support troops, most of whom aren't really part of the battalion or anywhere near the combat.
 
. . . . . .
As for battalion equivalents, this is going to be hard to do if you are dealing with disparate tech levels. I'd think that as TL increases the number of actual combatants in a battalion would fall even as the number of technicians would rise.
So, you might have at TL 4 or 5 500 troops of which 450 are combatants and 50 are support. At TL 14 it might be more like 50 combatants and 450 support troops, most of whom aren't really part of the battalion or anywhere near the combat.

As soon as you throw in Tech Levels, things are going to get really complicated. Prior to 1900, your principle combats arms were the infantry, horse cavalry, and artillery which was just starting to be equipped with rapid-firing guns with high-explosive shells. The infantry were converting from single-shot rifles to bolt-action magazine repeaters capable of a much higher rate of accurate fire, and machine guns were beginning to be used in larger numbers. Then, during World War One, mechanization arrived, along with aircraft. I will not even try to cover the naval technology changes. In 1916, the US Army War College put together for the US Congress an analysis of the average cost of one US soldier verses the pre-war cost of one British soldier. The average cost of the US soldier was slightly over $1000 while the cost of the British soldier was about $600, based on the established exchange rate. It should be noted that the exchange rate was based on gold and gold was $20.67 per ounce. The analysis was quite detailed and makes for interesting reading. However, that cost was prior to the mechanization of World War One.

Currently, you could have a straight leg infantry battalion, a mechanized infantry battalion in armored personnel carriers, an air-mobile battalion with helicopters, a paratroop battalion with a requirement for transport aircraft, an armored battalion, a mechanized artillery battalion, a towed artillery battalion, or a Marine amphibious force with its own amphibious vehicles, helicopters and artillery. All of them are going to have different costs, both direct and indirect, and all have different combat power. All will require differing levels of support.

Aircraft can run anywhere from $100 million a copy to a couple of billion, with the flight hour cost ranging up to and over $10,000 per flight hour, with a minimum of 120 flight hours to maintain pilot proficiency. The Navy is even worse. While I have Striker, I have never really used if for costs, nor MegaTraveller. I do have cost figures for some equipment, and what it takes to run it. I suspect that most gamers would not like to see them, as they would sort of ruin the fun.
 
Defence comes down to what you consider is a threat, and how do you plan to deal with it; in the event of multiple vectors and limited resources, what takes priority.

Then there's extreme diplomacy, and up close negotiations.
 
I'd also say the expense of a BE force rises with it's tech level and composition.


Starport grade greatly influences cost of importing equipment.


This approach doesn't really lend itself to a BE formula approach, as just the personnel costs alone dictate differences in doctrine and force structure due to the economy and potential adversaries.

It's MCr10 per year per 1000 troops, ranging to MCr50 for elite troops. That alone is going to put some hard choices on unit composition.

There are also significant cost differences between an armor, cav/mech, garrison or infantry battalion, and between wheeled/tracked and grav.

Thanks Kilemall, I've snipped out the important points you made. Striker is too granular an approach.

I'm thinking that BEs only need to be differentiated as Infantry or Armoured, with the Ref supplying more detail as needed. Perhaps I could include Artillery with the rest being accounted for in the BE slice.

There is also the military-building rules in TNE/Path of Tears and World Tamers Handbook as another option to consider.

Thanks Jec10 World Tamers Handbook is a good reference as it expands the detail of a BE to be 2000 troops; 500 combat, 500 combat support, and 1000 combat service support and miscellaneous which while very general are good planning figures.
 
Okay, thinking out loud so you can come back with your thoughts.


ArmyMaker at its most basic would take Population and Tech Level and spit out the number of raw BEs.

Importance extension and Cultural extension should probably modify the number of raw BEs.

Base TL should be the same as the world's.

Economic extension and Starport should probably modify the available TLs. The better the starport and the more RUs are available the more you can increase TL. Sound right?



Two options:

BEs can be Infantry or Armor and the creator fleshes out what that means later.

or

BEs can be Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry, Protected, Medical and Technical as per Branches in the T5 Soldier career.

I like the second one because I can turn Artillery BEs into planetary Defense Batteries and flesh out a world's defenses. But Protected is harder to deal with, ideally it should be a modifier on other troop types.

Mobile troops: a portion of the BEs are mobile forces capable of moving off world. Ideally these should be mostly Protected forces.

Controversial bit: Assuming a universe where the Imperial Army exists a number of BEs equivelent to 5% are generated and run through the same sequence to create a subsector or sector army.

Extra bits: assign the BEs to field formations: Regiments, Brigades, Divisions, Corps, Field Armies.

Alternate names for field formations.

Mobility should have a base TL

Mobility types:
Standard
Foot
Wheeled
Tracked
Lift (Air at lower TLs)
Drop (Para at lower TLs)
Mounted (horses or other riding beasts)
Protected (might work better here?)

eg.
Armored Standard = A Tank Battalion
Armored Foot = could be Battledressed troops or Mechs?
Armored Lift = A Grav Tank Battalion
Armored Mounted = Heavy Cavalry perhaps?
Infantry Tracked = Mechanized Infantry
Armored Drop/Para = Assault Cavalry or Russian Airborne


Elite
Elite units cost double the BEs. They can represent Special Forces or troops that are a cut above the rest, perhaps a Presidential Guard etc.

If we can make a BE Elite should we be able to downgrade it and get two less capable BEs? Is that a useful option?


What do we end up with?
A list of field formations with a TL and mobility type. BEs should have a fighting number broadly representing its capacity in attack or defense.
 
Calculating BE in GT: Ground Forces really just uses population and tech level. Thete are culture modifiers from GT: First-In used, but the GM can apply them as approprate without need of that book.

The system covers active, reserve and militia forces. A BE is assumed to be infantry. At double cost it can be armor or elite (or elite armor for 4 BEs). All BEs are assumed to include artillery units.

No planetary GDP required, no MCr involved.
 
It's really circumstantial.

The Roman Republic was initially based on a militia model, semi professionalized as it became visibly imperialistic, fully professionalized under Marius, and in the Late Principate reorganized it's military to frontier troops backed by a mobile reserve.

Expansionist regimes need more expeditionary orientated forces, usually divorced from either electorate oversight or participation, at least on a large scale.
 
Currently, you could have a straight leg infantry battalion, a mechanized infantry battalion in armored personnel carriers, an air-mobile battalion with helicopters, a paratroop battalion with a requirement for transport aircraft, an armored battalion, a mechanized artillery battalion, a towed artillery battalion, or a Marine amphibious force with its own amphibious vehicles, helicopters and artillery. All of them are going to have different costs, both direct and indirect, and all have different combat power. All will require differing levels of support.

You left out quite a few there, too...
Amphibian infantry (largest size typically fielded is the 8-16 man team), foot mortar, foot rocket anti-tank, Motorcycle motorized, Alpine Infantry (skis and climbing, maybe also snowmobiles and/or sleds).

And that's all still just current tech. (And within the last 40 years, all of TR's and my lists have in fact been fielded by 1st or 2nd world nations in fielded units of a company or more. (Soviets had frogman units up to Bn.)
 
It's really circumstantial.

The Roman Republic was initially based on a militia model, semi professionalized as it became visibly imperialistic, fully professionalized under Marius, and in the Late Principate reorganized it's military to frontier troops backed by a mobile reserve.

Expansionist regimes need more expeditionary orientated forces, usually divorced from either electorate oversight or participation, at least on a large scale.

Precisely my point.

A world looking to enforce a high law level and the force is more constabulary is different from one defending against the slavering hellspawn of Altair IV. Among other things the former will need to be lighter and more numerous to provide greater coverage, altering the BE count itself.

On the battalion types- should be aerospace and nautical force command types fleshed out. Still home field advantage to locally optimized aircraft over grav for quite a few TLs, and depending on your view the basic starship may not be optimized for submerged operations or too expensive to risk in wet/aerospace operations.

In a quick costing like you are doing, I would make naval and air/grav battalions cost double of inf, and double again for veteran, triple for elite.

Divide by 2 for conscripts, sail or local equestrian lift. Steam rail/ships do not reduce cost.

Here is a QND formula for figuring major nav/air-grav/wheeled-tracked percentages based on the TL and UWP stats.

The main idea is that with higher tech grav takes over the other two lift/fighting types, and that the sort of distances and terrain to cover alters the lift requirements.

[Hydrographic -(TL/3)] * 10 = percentage Nautical Force Command

Size * (TL/2) = percentage Air/Grav force.

The remainder is wheeled/tracked.
 
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