Building the port.

[notagoodusername]

An idea that occurs to me for building the port units is to assign a numerical value to the port type (A, B, etc) and a value to the amount of traffic the port is set up to handle (High, Medium, etc).

Multiply this by the port's TL and you have a modifier for the units.

Note a port can be handling more or less that it is built for, so having a Facilties Value for the port construction and a Services Value for the, well, services.

So warehousing units are a base value multiplied by the Facilities Value, which are spent on wahrehousing units, and so on.

Actual waits for berths, unloading, and availibilty of other services depends upon the Service Value of the port (how busy it is).

These are only half formed ideas, but what do folks think?


Shane

 

[trader jim]

It could be we are overlooking a class of starport, the PRIVATE port!!! there are small medium large civialian airports , why not the same for private starports?? where the realy rich bast**** park the Yahts, that are armed like destroyers, all types of ships. there even back yard landing pads. What do these consist of??

we should not over look this type of "port"
maby an extra chapter??, after all even "gigs" need facilitys.

 

[notagoodusername]

Good point.

Perhaps those private ports are a special case, as they would have facilties in excess of thier requirement due to the money involved...

Good thought TJ, let me think about it a bit.

Shane

 

[Smiling DM]

Originally posted by Shane Mclean:
An idea that occurs to me for building the port units is to assign a numerical value to the port type (A, B, etc) and a value to the amount of traffic the port is set up to handle (High, Medium, etc).

Multiply this by the port's TL and you have a modifier for the units.

Note a port can be handling more or less that it is built for, so having a Facilties Value for the port construction and a Services Value for the, well, services.

So warehousing units are a base value multiplied by the Facilities Value, which are spent on wahrehousing units, and so on.

Actual waits for berths, unloading, and availibilty of other services depends upon the Service Value of the port (how busy it is).

These are only half formed ideas, but what do folks think?


Shane

These work, but I think you need something to reflect the overhead issues of a starport, such as Administration, Traffic Control, housing for starport staff, hangars for COACC craft, brig for over-zealous Travellers on R&R, etc. This would also cover the basic utilities of Life Support, Power, and Communications.

Perhaps the Starport Overhead Value is just a percentage of the Facilities Value and another percentage (probably larger) of the Services Value.

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by Smiling DM:
These work, but I think you need something to reflect the overhead issues of a starport, such as Administration, Traffic Control, housing for starport staff, hangars for COACC craft, brig for over-zealous Travellers on R&R, etc. This would also cover the basic utilities of Life Support, Power, and Communications.

Perhaps the Starport Overhead Value is just a percentage of the Facilities Value and another percentage (probably larger) of the Services Value.

I see what you are getting at, and agree fully. It is important to make sure that we cover everything we need for a starport, and that is one of the most important parts.

I'm not so fussed about coming up with the precise figures and stuff just yet - that will happen during writing - this is just a concept discussion so we can present an outline to Hunter for him to yay or nay and dole out work.

Thanks for the commenst SmilingDM, and keep them coming. Y'know, I'm getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about this project.

Shane

 

[robject]

My take is that facilities derive from traffic numbers, and there are zillions of ways to invent traffic numbers. A favorite of mine is to figure out how much traffic is zooming to and from your starport and the most significant starport near your system. From there you can figure out services required pretty programmatically.. and you can also see where your starport needs improvement, too.

One way of determining traffic between two systems is to tally up points that favors trade for each port, then look up the traffic range in a table indexed by the above.

 

[robject]

A variation on the theme I mentioned above, that incorporates some of the previous posts:

(1) number the starport (A=5...)
(2) mutliply the TL
(3) that's the Traffic Index.
(4) compare it vs the Traffic Index for a nearby system, and voila! Traffic.
(5) Scale the numbers to match YTU!!

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Average freight per week (dtons)

1-10 11-20 21-30 31-40 41-50 ...

1-10 1 3 10 30 100 ...
11-20 3 10 30 100 300 ...
21-30 10 30 100 300 1000 ...
31-40 30 100 300 1000 3000 ...
41-50 100 300 1000 3000 10,000 ...
...</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Mythmere]

Be abstract: it's a game and this is a playing aid!

My example (where you can chop off the detail wherever you want)

Warehousing
Class A starport
1d6 large warehouses
2d6 small warehouses

Warehouse type:
1 geodesic domes
2 cinder block cubes
3 tall cylinders with elevators
4 concrete-lined pits with lids and elevators in

Warehouse guards
1 one private security detail (see description elsewhere)
2 two rival private security details
3 imperial marine detail (see description elsewhere)
4 robot guards (see elsewhere)

 

[mad13142000]

Originally posted by robject:
A variation on the theme I mentioned above, that incorporates some of the previous posts:
(1) number the starport (A=5...)
(2) mutliply the TL
(3) that's the Traffic Index.
(4) compare it vs the Traffic Index for a nearby system, and voila! Traffic.
(5) Scale the numbers to match YTU!!

Cool, but shouldn't population also play a factor?
If there are 10 billion people who want their pet rock or hoolahoop, that would be more trade than that TL 16 class A port serving that group of 5,000 on the Corp. Research Station....

-MADDog

 

[Liam Devlin]

Population & technology are factors.<nods at Maddog>..

Consider the canon TCS (Trillion Credit Squadron) table: 1dtn of shipbuilding per 1000 sophonts.(Population UWP 3). B & A-class ports apply. It can also be used for D & C-class for repair tonnages/ dock/ berth sizes.So a High Pop world (UWP 9-A) with A-B-C-D type ports will handle two zeroes less than their sum in dtn shipping docks.

EXAMPLE: say a 1 billion (1,000,000,000) pop, can build/ repair up to 10,000,000 dtns slips/ repair yards by this model. is it all production?
No..I tend to IMTU divide it 50-50 at least, between maintenance yards & construction yards..25-75 also works depending on economics of the system, cluster, etc..campaign ( a war footing DM definitely a detail crunchy!)

Now technology adds a wee spice to it- robotics. Most semi-independent-full independent robotic help works on batteries running 72-96hrs (TL-C+)..doing the work of (lets be maxxed here- 12hr work days) 6-8 sophonts. [if using eight hour wk. days this increases exponentially!]

EXAMPLE: So a low pop world with like yer other example: A-class yards, TL-G, & 5,000 pop, might have 30-40,000 'bots aiding in the building shipyard process!--This too, is a crunchy idea, probably skimmed for the "More Options" chapter.

 

[Liam Devlin]

--gleaned from Plop101's research:

Regina Canon localities list:
I. Starports:
Source: DGP Grand Survey-TravellerCentral web site
· 3 class A Downports
· 3 class A Highports
· 2 class B Downports
· 1 class B Highport
· 53 class F Spaceports
· 85 class H Spaceports
The only named Starport: Luck Gibson Starport Source: TNS Bulletin 186-1107
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A788899-C A Ri Cp 703 Im F7V M6V M8D

Here we have a canon world example, with multiple ports both High and downside.(Thanks Plop101!), an a pre-MT population of 700 million, both Scout(X-boat waystation) & Naval Base (Imperial and Colonial/Reserve), as well as in-system spaceports.

This kind of detailing we shall reserve for the "More options" chapter. BUT..this example does show us, that population IS a factor- note how many ports there are, and the various types..!

Food for thought gentlemen, ladies!

 

[far-trader]

Hi all, coming in late to port (ah the life of a trader), but it looks like things are hopping here. Just a couple thoughts, far too many buzzing around in my head to post while I try to dock and catch up on the news, edits and addendum to follow...

First, in reference to the above post, this actually fits quite well with my old quick and dirty starport generation. The number of ports are based on the type of primary port and any subsidiary bases.

For example Regina with an A primary and a Navy and Scout base would total 3 main type A ports, the primary (i.e. civilian), and one for each of the Navy and Scout services present (bases). No roll, it just is, from the UPP. After that I had a simple roll for each port to have a secondary port of one less rank (i.e. type B in this example). For each secondary port there was another roll for a tertiary port of one less rank again (i.e. type C, again in this example), repeated until you used up all the types (A-E).

The system just starts with the primary of type x from the UPP and works down to type E from there.

So in my system Pop didn't determine the type and number of ports, only the amount of traffic and therefore the general 'size' of each port.

Anyway there is more to the system, and a couple more thoughts running around but my berth just opened up so I gotta slot in or I'll lose my place and be in a holding orbit for who knows how long, later all...

(And that's a prime example of another aspect of my system, and of primary import to the PC's. Have to find the right area to post that, or start another thread)

 

[Liam Devlin]

"Far Trader, Far Trader..This CoTI-Starport 101 Control-PM Alpha: You are cleared for berth at Vector 180, Berth docking Alpha Tango Oscar November Charlie Echo Niner over.."

--Great to have you aboard this--NOW is the time to get that dusty notebook out! C'mon!

 

[mad13142000]

But Far-Trader, if you DON'T take pop into account, what happens when you have a nice UPP with a dinky pop?
If I'm A666345-9, by your method I've got more starports than people on the planet...OR if I have a Hi pop world that's off the beaten path, I'd be stuck with only a couple of starports to service my 20 billion people...
according to my old JTAS, population was the determining factor on the numbre of auxilliary starports besides the one in the UPP...

-MADDog

 

[Antares Administration]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
--gleaned from Plop101's research:

Regina Canon localities list:
I. Starports:
Source: DGP Grand Survey-TravellerCentral web site
· 3 class A Downports
· 3 class A Highports
· 2 class B Downports
· 1 class B Highport
· 53 class F Spaceports
· 85 class H Spaceports
The only named Starport: Luck Gibson Starport Source: TNS Bulletin 186-1107
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A788899-C A Ri Cp 703 Im F7V M6V M8D

....

This kind of detailing we shall reserve for the "More options" chapter. BUT..this example does show us, that population IS a factor- note how many ports there are, and the various types..!

Food for thought gentlemen, ladies!

I think there the Mertactor/Spinward Marches example in GT:Starports as well, and Starfall/Glimmerdrift Reaches (if you need it).

Paul Nemeth
AA

 

[Antares Administration]

Originally posted by MADDog:
But Far-Trader, if you DON'T take pop into account, what happens when you have a nice UPP with a dinky pop?
If I'm A666345-9, by your method I've got more starports than people on the planet...OR if I have a Hi pop world that's off the beaten path, I'd be stuck with only a couple of starports to service my 20 billion people...
according to my old JTAS, population was the determining factor on the numbre of auxilliary starports besides the one in the UPP...

-MADDog

The only other factors might be World Trade Balance (from T20) and World Trade Number (from GT:FT and GT:Starports). The first discribes relative flow of goods (import, export or neutral), and the second discribes the absolute magnitude of flow. You need both.

For example, you could have an NI world with a low population and a very high natural resources number. Production would probably be distributed, so you'd have a significant number of Class D or E spaceports to handle cargo. Pop wouldn't be the "only" contributing factor.

Paul Nemeth
AA

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by MADDog:
But Far-Trader, if you DON'T take pop into account, what happens when you have a nice UPP with a dinky pop?
If I'm A666345-9, by your method I've got more starports than people on the planet...OR if I have a Hi pop world that's off the beaten path, I'd be stuck with only a couple of starports to service my 20 billion people...

Well contrary to popular mythology size does matter

In your first example above you'd have a primary type A port, and possibly a secondary and up to 3 tertiary ports (I think my CT era system was an 8+ roll for each, miss one and stop rolling). The traffic, which (iirc) I had a table cross referencing the Pop and Starport type, determines the size of the primary, and each after that was smaller.

Originally posted by MADDog:

according to my old JTAS, population was the determining factor on the numbre of auxilliary starports besides the one in the UPP...

-MADDog

I'll accept that, and when I get a chance to grab my MT World Builder's Handbook I'll see what they had to say on it, unless someone beats me to it, just for more background.

This was just a quick and dirty system with a couple die rolls and easy to remember because player's with their own ship tended to jump anywhere but the system I had some background prepared for, yet they wanted some detail, go figure

It and anything else I add here is just grist for the mill 'cause it could be my own, or 'adapted' from some published stuff and I don't know what's what anymore for some of it. Also I believe in independant invention of the same idea, especially in a system as basic as CT. In fact I'd find it hard to believe no one else ever made up an identical set of rules since its based on 2d6 and 8+ rolls using the UPP. With such limited parameters there's not many ways to hash it.

 

[Liam Devlin]

I think there the Mertactor/Spinward Marches example in GT:Starports as well, and Starfall/Glimmerdrift Reaches (if you need it).

Paul Nemeth
AA
-------------------------------------------------
Mertractor I'm familiar with, but from a TNE-sectors site (DED's, matter of fact-free plug to him!); Starfall..wasn't that one cooked up by a canadian, a bald English guy, a UK mapmaking pharmicist, and some Yank in the boonies of Orc-kansas?

 

[Antares Administration]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
... and some Yank in the boonies of Orc-kansas?

Visions of Dorothy in chainmail with a petticoat, carrying a small dog and a battleaxe. "Well, Toto, I guess were not in Orc-kansas anymore...."

Sorry, I've been reading too much Terry Pratchett lately.

Paul Nemeth
AA

 

[notagoodusername]

A high pop world is likely to have a bigger downport to facilitiate the tarde coing to and from world, whereas the low pop port on a trade main would have a bigger highport to make for quicker onward shipping.

Otherwise I don't think we need to do huge sums with dtons of cargo and pop figures as the whole point is simple and abstract, so pick a "Very High", "Medium" of whatever level of trade tonnage*, look up the port class and TL, then get started. Gotta be simple and fast, otherwise get GT Starports and GT Far Trader and spend a few days on the port. We want a 'fifteen minute starport' system (it won't be everything for everyone but it will be usable by a busy GM who can't take too much time away from the little prep time that family and work gives him/her to make a port that has only a brief appearance).

*= Port tonnage depends upon the pop level of the planet, position on a main or cluster, etc, and can represent trade passing through and in/out. Give the GM advice or a quick points system to determine which level of trade it is. More on this later when I have ideas.


Shane