Canon bulk carriers?

[robject]

Hmmm, things to think about. Well Fritz, give us a stab at it. Where do we start? You're the Demographics Dude here, as far as I'm concerned.

Lessee... 3000 people (staterooms, not frozen) at Jump-4 would be 12,000t SR + 4800t fuel + all the machinery + equipment + who-knows-what. That would probably be a 20kt vessel.

I'll start low.

A 5000t J4 vessel requires 2000t+ fuel, and could have around 2400 tons free for "life support".

Call it 8t per passenger, with 4+ tons of that going to public areas (not hallways) for entertainment.

That targets the 5000t vessel as a 300-passenger liner. Those rooms are likely to be expensive.

This kind of presumes different rules for large liners over smaller ships, doesn't it?

 

[robject]

Hmmm, things to think about. Well Fritz, give us a stab at it. Where do we start? You're the Demographics Dude here, as far as I'm concerned.

Lessee... 3000 people (staterooms, not frozen) at Jump-4 would be 12,000t SR + 4800t fuel + all the machinery + equipment + who-knows-what. That would probably be a 20kt vessel.

I'll start low.

A 5000t J4 vessel requires 2000t+ fuel, and could have around 2400 tons free for "life support".

Call it 8t per passenger, with 4+ tons of that going to public areas (not hallways) for entertainment.

That targets the 5000t vessel as a 300-passenger liner. Those rooms are likely to be expensive.

This kind of presumes different rules for large liners over smaller ships, doesn't it?

 

[RandyT0001]

Here's my 10k dton luxury passenger liner I've been working on for the past year (or so). I've done some of the deckplans but haven't finished.

Ship: Marquis Vanefa
Class: SuliemanSpecial10K
Type: 10KJ2M1Passenger ship
Architect: TylersTools
Tech Level: 15

USP
PS-K621243-090000-90000-0 MCr 3,639.830 10 KTons
Bat Bear 2 3 Crew: 179
Bat 2 3 TL: 15

Cargo: 1,311.300 Passengers: 800 Fuel: 2,200.000 EP: 200.000 Agility: 1 Shipboard Security Detail: 10
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 36.398 Cost in Quantity: MCr 2,911.864


Detailed Description

HULL
10,000.000 tons standard, 140,000.000 cubic meters, Flattened Sphere Configuration

CREW
11 Officers, 168 Ratings

ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 1G Manuever, Power plant-2, 200.000 EP, Agility 1

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/4 Computer

HARDPOINTS
50 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
30 Triple Beam Laser Turrets organised into 3 Batteries (Factor-9)

DEFENCES
20 Triple Sandcaster Turrets organised into 2 Batteries (Factor-9)

CRAFT
None

FUEL
2,200.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
979.0 Staterooms, 800 High Passengers, 1,311.300 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
1 Extra Passenger Volume (800.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000), 1 Sports Fields (745.700 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000), 1 Engineering Shop (8.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000), 1 Sickbay (8) (32.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000)

COST
MCr 3,676.228 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 36.398), MCr 2,911.864 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
160 Weeks Singly, 128 Weeks in Quantity

COMMENTS
Incomplete

Here's an starting list of items I've tried to include. I'm still adjusting the final design and deckplans. Hopefully within the next six months.

Theater A
Theater B
Bar A
Bar B
Dining Room A
Dining Room B
Casino
Excerise Room
Badminton
Basketball Court (Pro/College)
Bowling Lane, 8 lanes
Fencing, 2 lanes
Handball Court
Horseshoes, 3 lanes
Racquetball
Shuffleboard, 4 lanes
Volleyball Court

 

[RandyT0001]

Here's my 10k dton luxury passenger liner I've been working on for the past year (or so). I've done some of the deckplans but haven't finished.

Ship: Marquis Vanefa
Class: SuliemanSpecial10K
Type: 10KJ2M1Passenger ship
Architect: TylersTools
Tech Level: 15

USP
PS-K621243-090000-90000-0 MCr 3,639.830 10 KTons
Bat Bear 2 3 Crew: 179
Bat 2 3 TL: 15

Cargo: 1,311.300 Passengers: 800 Fuel: 2,200.000 EP: 200.000 Agility: 1 Shipboard Security Detail: 10
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 36.398 Cost in Quantity: MCr 2,911.864


Detailed Description

HULL
10,000.000 tons standard, 140,000.000 cubic meters, Flattened Sphere Configuration

CREW
11 Officers, 168 Ratings

ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 1G Manuever, Power plant-2, 200.000 EP, Agility 1

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/4 Computer

HARDPOINTS
50 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
30 Triple Beam Laser Turrets organised into 3 Batteries (Factor-9)

DEFENCES
20 Triple Sandcaster Turrets organised into 2 Batteries (Factor-9)

CRAFT
None

FUEL
2,200.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
979.0 Staterooms, 800 High Passengers, 1,311.300 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
1 Extra Passenger Volume (800.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000), 1 Sports Fields (745.700 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000), 1 Engineering Shop (8.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000), 1 Sickbay (8) (32.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 0.000)

COST
MCr 3,676.228 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 36.398), MCr 2,911.864 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
160 Weeks Singly, 128 Weeks in Quantity

COMMENTS
Incomplete

Here's an starting list of items I've tried to include. I'm still adjusting the final design and deckplans. Hopefully within the next six months.

Theater A
Theater B
Bar A
Bar B
Dining Room A
Dining Room B
Casino
Excerise Room
Badminton
Basketball Court (Pro/College)
Bowling Lane, 8 lanes
Fencing, 2 lanes
Handball Court
Horseshoes, 3 lanes
Racquetball
Shuffleboard, 4 lanes
Volleyball Court

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Good start, Randy. Why are the "User Defined Components" all a cost of 0, though? And, doesn't the Sickbay require some crew?

robject, I think 8dT per passenger is pretty accomodating. I would put the cabins anywhere from 1.5dT to 4dT. If this is a cruise liner, you also don't want the rooms to be too accomodating - you want the passengers out in the casinos/restaurants/shuffleboard courts/etc. where they can spend some money. Now, yes, a lot will be included in a High Passage price (and this might warrant a higher price than just High Passage), but not everything.

I would probably alot some extra space for life support, too. You would want to have more water and air than normal - you want to mix in "fresh" with the recycled stuff. (You would also allow your top passengers to actually shower with water.) You want plenty of room for fresh foodstuffs, too - your passengers ain't paying to eat beanie wienies.

So, given 2400dT, I would take 250dT for "cargo" (fresh foods), 250dT for water (above and beyond normal), and 200dT for extra air (and extra scrubbers!). I think the 8dT is a good start, so you could only really pamper 220 passengers with that size. Lets fudge a little and say we can pamper 250 guests (6.8dT each) with that 5000dT vessel.

Realize, of course, that even on the QEII most of the folks are in what we would equate with double-bunked Mid Passages. If you use that concept, most folks will be happy with 4dT of stateroom (actual room in the room) to be shared by two people (unless they're brother and sister, of course). Most folks would even be very okay

with 3dT of stateroom shared 'twixt two.

Also, on the QEII, you can usually walk around the Ledo deck for a breath of fresh air. I think this thing needs a park. At least, if you're going to make it accomodate 3,000 people.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Good start, Randy. Why are the "User Defined Components" all a cost of 0, though? And, doesn't the Sickbay require some crew?

robject, I think 8dT per passenger is pretty accomodating. I would put the cabins anywhere from 1.5dT to 4dT. If this is a cruise liner, you also don't want the rooms to be too accomodating - you want the passengers out in the casinos/restaurants/shuffleboard courts/etc. where they can spend some money. Now, yes, a lot will be included in a High Passage price (and this might warrant a higher price than just High Passage), but not everything.

I would probably alot some extra space for life support, too. You would want to have more water and air than normal - you want to mix in "fresh" with the recycled stuff. (You would also allow your top passengers to actually shower with water.) You want plenty of room for fresh foodstuffs, too - your passengers ain't paying to eat beanie wienies.

So, given 2400dT, I would take 250dT for "cargo" (fresh foods), 250dT for water (above and beyond normal), and 200dT for extra air (and extra scrubbers!). I think the 8dT is a good start, so you could only really pamper 220 passengers with that size. Lets fudge a little and say we can pamper 250 guests (6.8dT each) with that 5000dT vessel.

Realize, of course, that even on the QEII most of the folks are in what we would equate with double-bunked Mid Passages. If you use that concept, most folks will be happy with 4dT of stateroom (actual room in the room) to be shared by two people (unless they're brother and sister, of course). Most folks would even be very okay

with 3dT of stateroom shared 'twixt two.

Also, on the QEII, you can usually walk around the Ledo deck for a breath of fresh air. I think this thing needs a park. At least, if you're going to make it accomodate 3,000 people.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Also, that many people might be able to stand each other for a week when they have blue skies to look at, a pool to swim in, and ports to visit. Locked in a tin can in J-space, staring at each other's ugly mugs for a week (+/-10%!)?

Fritz,

Which is why, IMTU, the vast majority of passengers travel by low berth.

What number of people travel to Europe aboard aircraft compared to the number who go by ship? In Real World, how many people travel aboard cruise liners to actually get somewhere? When travelling by liners, the cruise and not the destinattion is the selling point. No one walks aboard a Royal Caribbean liner in Miami in order to travel to St. Croix. If St. Croix is your desitnation, you fly there instead.

Low berths are cheaper to operate and you can move more people per dTon. Low berths are also safe IF you're travelling aboard well known carriers between major ports. (The British Airways > Air Lagos equation.)

IMTU, people only travel warm when:

- They're so stinking rich they can afford to do so in luxury.
- They're travelling to a world/area not served by well known carriers.
- They wish to travel somewhat 'below the radar'.
- They need to get somewhere within a certain time frame and the liners' schedules can't meet that requirement.

For instance; a tech rep travelling between Glisten and Aki will arrive at a 'slot shop' belonging to the carrier his corporation does buisness with. In the 'slot shop', which may not even be at the starport, the rep is placed in a low berth. No ship crew doing the job inbetween loading cargo and food. The carrier's staff does this kind of thing hundreds if not thousands of times a day. The rep is 'berthed' professionally. If something occurs, medical help is alreayd on hand.

After being 'berthed', the rep his moved to the vessel that will take him to Aki. Depending on the cariier, the vessel could be a wholly owned low berth 'liner', another firm's liner, even a freighter that had met the carrier's requirements.

A week in jump space passes with no need for stewards, no need for swimming pools, no need for entertainers, no fistfights among the passengers, and no potential hijakcings.

Once on Aki, the rep is awakened in another of the carrier's 'slot shops'. Again, the process is handled by a professional staff with lots of experience.

Simple, isn't it? Cheap too. Of course, this type of travel is only avaiable along major trade routes and between major trading partners. Glisten-Aki or Regina-Efate will have these routes, Grote-Mithas or Meleto-Tivis won't.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Also, that many people might be able to stand each other for a week when they have blue skies to look at, a pool to swim in, and ports to visit. Locked in a tin can in J-space, staring at each other's ugly mugs for a week (+/-10%!)?

Fritz,

Which is why, IMTU, the vast majority of passengers travel by low berth.

What number of people travel to Europe aboard aircraft compared to the number who go by ship? In Real World, how many people travel aboard cruise liners to actually get somewhere? When travelling by liners, the cruise and not the destinattion is the selling point. No one walks aboard a Royal Caribbean liner in Miami in order to travel to St. Croix. If St. Croix is your desitnation, you fly there instead.

Low berths are cheaper to operate and you can move more people per dTon. Low berths are also safe IF you're travelling aboard well known carriers between major ports. (The British Airways > Air Lagos equation.)

IMTU, people only travel warm when:

- They're so stinking rich they can afford to do so in luxury.
- They're travelling to a world/area not served by well known carriers.
- They wish to travel somewhat 'below the radar'.
- They need to get somewhere within a certain time frame and the liners' schedules can't meet that requirement.

For instance; a tech rep travelling between Glisten and Aki will arrive at a 'slot shop' belonging to the carrier his corporation does buisness with. In the 'slot shop', which may not even be at the starport, the rep is placed in a low berth. No ship crew doing the job inbetween loading cargo and food. The carrier's staff does this kind of thing hundreds if not thousands of times a day. The rep is 'berthed' professionally. If something occurs, medical help is alreayd on hand.

After being 'berthed', the rep his moved to the vessel that will take him to Aki. Depending on the cariier, the vessel could be a wholly owned low berth 'liner', another firm's liner, even a freighter that had met the carrier's requirements.

A week in jump space passes with no need for stewards, no need for swimming pools, no need for entertainers, no fistfights among the passengers, and no potential hijakcings.

Once on Aki, the rep is awakened in another of the carrier's 'slot shops'. Again, the process is handled by a professional staff with lots of experience.

Simple, isn't it? Cheap too. Of course, this type of travel is only avaiable along major trade routes and between major trading partners. Glisten-Aki or Regina-Efate will have these routes, Grote-Mithas or Meleto-Tivis won't.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, Bill, you're right: we have to maintain separation between our idea of a "bulk passenger hauler" and a "cruise ship between stars".

So, how many people per 10dT in a low berth at what rate v. what rate for 10dT cargo? Are you going to do better hauling boxes of rubber chickens or playing Reaver drive-thru?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, Bill, you're right: we have to maintain separation between our idea of a "bulk passenger hauler" and a "cruise ship between stars".

So, how many people per 10dT in a low berth at what rate v. what rate for 10dT cargo? Are you going to do better hauling boxes of rubber chickens or playing Reaver drive-thru?

 

[RandyT0001]

Fritz, the user defined components are at a cost of zero because I haven't finished it yet. The 1300+ dtons of "cargo" is not going to be cargo but instead will be used for the theaters, bars, dining rooms, casino and other non-sports facalities.

I'm in the process of re-working it. I think I will increase the number of passengers to 1000. Each passenger will have a 2.5 dton stateroom "suite".

In regards to having 250 dtons of food and 250 dtons of water is alot, very excessive actually. 1000 people eating 3 meals, plus a couple of snacks, each day for 8 days makes for 2400 meals. Say each meal is 0.5 kilograms but you want to offer variety so you offer 20 choices for each one. Some quick math here 2400*20*0.5*1.5(for snacks)=36000kg of food. Lets assume that each kg of food has the same density as water for ease (actually the density of food is higher than water and will require less space than our result). So 1 kg of food takes one liter of volume. (Some may ask about packaging but to me that is my offset for the higher density that food has over water.) So we need 36000 liters worth of food. There are 13.5kl per dton so we divide 36000 by 13500 and get 2.7 dtons of volume for food, 20 choices for each meal for 1000 people. Let's round it up to 3dtons and then double it to 6 dtons for easy access by cooks, etc.

In my search of passenger liners online I noticed that the smaller "suites" were about 150-180 sq feet in size. The mid range "suites" had 250-450 sq feet while the large, really luxurious "suites", some sleeping up to six, were about 600-1800 sq feet. My basketball court on my ship design is 3 decks tall (30') and takes about 462 dtons of volume on the ship. You could convert that to an arboretum(sp?) for a bit of green space onboard.

YMMV

 

[RandyT0001]

Fritz, the user defined components are at a cost of zero because I haven't finished it yet. The 1300+ dtons of "cargo" is not going to be cargo but instead will be used for the theaters, bars, dining rooms, casino and other non-sports facalities.

I'm in the process of re-working it. I think I will increase the number of passengers to 1000. Each passenger will have a 2.5 dton stateroom "suite".

In regards to having 250 dtons of food and 250 dtons of water is alot, very excessive actually. 1000 people eating 3 meals, plus a couple of snacks, each day for 8 days makes for 2400 meals. Say each meal is 0.5 kilograms but you want to offer variety so you offer 20 choices for each one. Some quick math here 2400*20*0.5*1.5(for snacks)=36000kg of food. Lets assume that each kg of food has the same density as water for ease (actually the density of food is higher than water and will require less space than our result). So 1 kg of food takes one liter of volume. (Some may ask about packaging but to me that is my offset for the higher density that food has over water.) So we need 36000 liters worth of food. There are 13.5kl per dton so we divide 36000 by 13500 and get 2.7 dtons of volume for food, 20 choices for each meal for 1000 people. Let's round it up to 3dtons and then double it to 6 dtons for easy access by cooks, etc.

In my search of passenger liners online I noticed that the smaller "suites" were about 150-180 sq feet in size. The mid range "suites" had 250-450 sq feet while the large, really luxurious "suites", some sleeping up to six, were about 600-1800 sq feet. My basketball court on my ship design is 3 decks tall (30') and takes about 462 dtons of volume on the ship. You could convert that to an arboretum(sp?) for a bit of green space onboard.

YMMV

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
So, how many people per 10dT in a low berth at what rate v. what rate for 10dT cargo? Are you going to do better hauling boxes of rubber chickens or playing Reaver drive-thru?

Fritz,

LOL! Great analogies!

About the business end of things: we need to remember that there is a finite amount of rubber chickens and Reaver take-out to be hauled. If all the rubber chicken that can be hauled is already being hauled, you won't make a single decicredit trying to haul rubber chickens.

However, if the Reaver take out market is under served, you'll be able to make credits hauling that instead. The profit margins aren't the same but its two different businesses we're talking about. In the real world, different businesses and industries bubble along with different profit margins all dya long. Profit margins only come into play when you examine businesses in the same market sector and even then you have to take precautions.

Running some CT numbers in a quick & dirty fashion. A low berth is 0.5 dTons, the shipping rate for one dTon of cargo is 1000 Cr, and the price of a low berth ticket (aboard a player-scale vessel) is 1000 Cr also.

Let's say a low berth carrier - that is the business that operates 'slot shops', moves low berth passenger, and may not actually own any vessels - has a 10dTon low berth module based on the standard 10 dTon cargo container. It contains 18 berths (9 dTons) and a emergency powerplant (1 dTon).

That's 18,000 Cr 'worth' passengers being moved for only 10,000 Cr. Subtract various overhead costs and you'll still make your dividend especially when you consider those systems with 250K passengers monving through them every single week.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
So, how many people per 10dT in a low berth at what rate v. what rate for 10dT cargo? Are you going to do better hauling boxes of rubber chickens or playing Reaver drive-thru?

Fritz,

LOL! Great analogies!

About the business end of things: we need to remember that there is a finite amount of rubber chickens and Reaver take-out to be hauled. If all the rubber chicken that can be hauled is already being hauled, you won't make a single decicredit trying to haul rubber chickens.

However, if the Reaver take out market is under served, you'll be able to make credits hauling that instead. The profit margins aren't the same but its two different businesses we're talking about. In the real world, different businesses and industries bubble along with different profit margins all dya long. Profit margins only come into play when you examine businesses in the same market sector and even then you have to take precautions.

Running some CT numbers in a quick & dirty fashion. A low berth is 0.5 dTons, the shipping rate for one dTon of cargo is 1000 Cr, and the price of a low berth ticket (aboard a player-scale vessel) is 1000 Cr also.

Let's say a low berth carrier - that is the business that operates 'slot shops', moves low berth passenger, and may not actually own any vessels - has a 10dTon low berth module based on the standard 10 dTon cargo container. It contains 18 berths (9 dTons) and a emergency powerplant (1 dTon).

That's 18,000 Cr 'worth' passengers being moved for only 10,000 Cr. Subtract various overhead costs and you'll still make your dividend especially when you consider those systems with 250K passengers monving through them every single week.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[MR TEK]

Working the luxury liner angle.

When I have played with, Alright, since I never got workable designs finished, toyed with, adding the bars and resturaunts and such, I simply decided that a reasturant that seets 100 people would be the equivent of 10 staterooms for example.

THis simplifed out space calculations, and if I counted then as equivelent staterooms when nfixuring life support, I bypassed a whole messy kludge to adjust life support calculations.

Then it simply becomes a matter of calculating how many staterooms a given facility would match. (basically, a direct size comparison) I say I toyed with this because I have some rough notes at a first guess for sizes, but I never actually got to anything that is ready to use.

Like many long term projects, the notes I have are together, but I need to get cracking using my software to generate deck plans of already established designs before I go out and break totally new ground.

 

[MR TEK]

Working the luxury liner angle.

When I have played with, Alright, since I never got workable designs finished, toyed with, adding the bars and resturaunts and such, I simply decided that a reasturant that seets 100 people would be the equivent of 10 staterooms for example.

THis simplifed out space calculations, and if I counted then as equivelent staterooms when nfixuring life support, I bypassed a whole messy kludge to adjust life support calculations.

Then it simply becomes a matter of calculating how many staterooms a given facility would match. (basically, a direct size comparison) I say I toyed with this because I have some rough notes at a first guess for sizes, but I never actually got to anything that is ready to use.

Like many long term projects, the notes I have are together, but I need to get cracking using my software to generate deck plans of already established designs before I go out and break totally new ground.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Mr TeK, you are insightful, indeed. That would be a good way to do it (though I still think you want the "extra" life support for a luxury ship).

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
Fritz, the user defined components are at a cost of zero because I haven't finished it yet.

Well, that certainly explains it.

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
In regards to having 250 dtons of food and 250 dtons of water is alot, very excessive actually....

Well, you also have to count in refrigeration volume, airflow volume (to keep the vegetables crisp), drinks (you are NOT going to serve rehydrated Scotch to your passengers), etc. Also, your math is off by one factor: 1000 people x 3 meals x 8 days is 24,000, not 2400.

I was just tossing out some numbers to spark some thought - it evidently worked.

Bill, so 500dT of low berths would rate 1,000kCr, but only 500kCr for cargo? Even if the ship charges 3/4 price for those berths, they will still mak out pretty well. And, if the 'slot shop' charges full price, they are making a substantial mark-up, as well. (BTW, would a good name for a 'slot shop' be "Freezer King"?)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Mr TeK, you are insightful, indeed. That would be a good way to do it (though I still think you want the "extra" life support for a luxury ship).

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
Fritz, the user defined components are at a cost of zero because I haven't finished it yet.

Well, that certainly explains it.

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
In regards to having 250 dtons of food and 250 dtons of water is alot, very excessive actually....

Well, you also have to count in refrigeration volume, airflow volume (to keep the vegetables crisp), drinks (you are NOT going to serve rehydrated Scotch to your passengers), etc. Also, your math is off by one factor: 1000 people x 3 meals x 8 days is 24,000, not 2400.

I was just tossing out some numbers to spark some thought - it evidently worked.

Bill, so 500dT of low berths would rate 1,000kCr, but only 500kCr for cargo? Even if the ship charges 3/4 price for those berths, they will still mak out pretty well. And, if the 'slot shop' charges full price, they are making a substantial mark-up, as well. (BTW, would a good name for a 'slot shop' be "Freezer King"?)

 

[RandyT0001]

Mr Tek, while designing my ship (see above) I drew plans that has 264 passengers in a space of 133 dtons for a resturaunt. The tables are 7 feet in diameter and have eight chairs. The space between chairs is four to five feet. I figured that each chair might come out from the table about a foot, foot and a half, once passengers sit down to eat therefore I would have about 2.5 to 3 feet for aisle space so people could move around. I checked out deckplans for several oceanic passenger liners and some resturaunt floorplans to get an idea as to how much space I would need. Basically you can get about 2 people per dton of space for resturuants and bars allowing about 2.5 to 3 feet for aisles between tables, booths, etc.

For one of my theaters I got 128 passengers in a space of 50 dtons. Each line of seats is like those in today's movie theaters but I have about 3.5 feet between rows. I figures about one foot of that aisle space will be occupied by the legs of people sitting so I'll have about two feet wide aisles (more than is used in today's movie houses but I wanted to give the people good leg room and be able to leave without serious interruption to others, ie making someone have to stand up as another exits).

YMMV

 

[RandyT0001]

Mr Tek, while designing my ship (see above) I drew plans that has 264 passengers in a space of 133 dtons for a resturaunt. The tables are 7 feet in diameter and have eight chairs. The space between chairs is four to five feet. I figured that each chair might come out from the table about a foot, foot and a half, once passengers sit down to eat therefore I would have about 2.5 to 3 feet for aisle space so people could move around. I checked out deckplans for several oceanic passenger liners and some resturaunt floorplans to get an idea as to how much space I would need. Basically you can get about 2 people per dton of space for resturuants and bars allowing about 2.5 to 3 feet for aisles between tables, booths, etc.

For one of my theaters I got 128 passengers in a space of 50 dtons. Each line of seats is like those in today's movie theaters but I have about 3.5 feet between rows. I figures about one foot of that aisle space will be occupied by the legs of people sitting so I'll have about two feet wide aisles (more than is used in today's movie houses but I wanted to give the people good leg room and be able to leave without serious interruption to others, ie making someone have to stand up as another exits).

YMMV