The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
One thing seems possible, warfare at that level will blur the line between "Winner" and "Loser"
Civil War at TL F
- Thread starter daryen
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daryen
SOC-14 1K
Yes, the political situation goes bad quickly. The Articles of War wouldn't apply because, by the time they are violated, the screaming is pretty much over. Only the quiet sobbing remains.
Here is my initial take on it:
The planet has been ruled by a series of charismatic dictators for ages. A long line of (from what I can tell) successful rulers. Then the interstellar Empire's leader decides to remove all nobility from power, and to institute "representational reforms" through the Empire.
Well, no series of dictators, no matter how popular, are without many enemies (possibly with help from those in the interstellar Empire). These enemies make sure the local elections go awry, and the end result is the up 'til now successful dictator is deposed. However, after the initial victory, the various opponents cannot cooperate. The result is a world that is politically divided among many different groups. (BTW, this doesn't have to be traditional countries; this could include more abstract political affiliations.)
At some point, after lots of political maneuvering, the ousted leader attempts his triumphant return to power (quite probably with popular support). His enemies are not about to let that happen, no matter the cost. The widespread, scattered political maneuvering quickly degerates into widespread, scattered fighting.
At that point, someone, who knows which of the many sides, realizes that if they lose, they are dead. And they are losing. So they try a devistating, massive attack to "decapitate" their major enemies. It all goes down hill quickly from there. The exact sequence is surprisingly irrelevant.
The saddest part of the whole thing is that, for the most part, the general populace has very little say in the whole thing. They get manipulated to kick the dictator out, then they get manipulated to bring him back. (Or at least that is what the polls say. Who knows if they were tinkered with.) Other than that, things just kinda "happen" to them.
Civil wars are never "civil" because they usually are about fundamental differences WITHIN a society and therefore, are by their very nature, very hard fought and very bloody on both sides, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the blood spilled is always military. Go see "Cold Mountain" to see how bad things can get for the civilians on the losing side. This usually occurs because the people of the opposition become the position their government represents to the other side and cease to be fully human to the soldiers representing the opposing ideals. Its easy to kill an ideal in the form of an unarmed non-person, as opposed to a 19 year old boy in a ragged pair of pants.
Pappy
Pappy
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
What if its A more "civilized" Civil War? An Armed engagement between two small opposing teams representing the opposing sides, that decides and settles the dispute? It could even be Broadcast...
That might play if there were someone to keep the peace between the warring factions, but in civil war that usually isn't possible, it means that both sides haave to agree to disagree amicably, and I'm sorry but I don't think human nature would allow that to happen. I have great faith in man's inhumanity to his fellow man. Higher technology doesn't change the personality of the people who possess it, it only makes them more dangerous, I fear.
Pappy
Pappy
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Ah, Lord Pappy, Meson and fusion weaponry has a funny way of altering the path of Human nature... the sides would have had a previous history of other conflicts with incredibly high casualties and damage to infrastructure, and to avoid this, could have struck up an accord to limit that sad state of things... this pact of course could be broken by either side at either time...
Exactly what I meant, so long as both sides agree not to use super weapons, the war works, but so soon as one guy decides to cheat then the other side decides to punish his friends and everything falls to pieces, this is called bad luck.....No seriously, such an agreement wouldn't work because the agreement would not limit the use of superweapons once the need for revenge arose in one side or the other (John Wilkes Booth comes to mind). In a war limited to spears, the man with the bow and arrows wins.
Pappy
You could have a planet separated by the equator into North and South with an alien species used as slaves. The inhabitants objects to the South's use of these aliens as slaves and the South rebelles. The President of the Planet is named Isaac Linton, he is a tall thin man with a beard. Down south the Rebel leader is named Jeffry Davos.
Someone said "go see Cold Mountain to see how civilians suffer". Well I haven't got around to seeing that yet-I prefer to wait for the CD. Nontheless it is true that civilian suffering is a given in civil wars. However that is true of all war. Having thousands of ill fed, but well armed young men decend on an area is always something of a stress to say the least, no matter how chivilrous people try to be. The American Civil War was the best that could be gotten out of the situation and could have been a lot worse. That did not make it fun. For an example of utter horror try the Thirty Years War where every army was underpaid, underfed, lived by robbery and brought it's own plague with it.
Or for that matter, some parts of the American Revoulution(there were some places where tories and rebels had once been neighbors). Or the Civil War as "fought" in places like Kansas (there it was often less war and more thuggery: the various bands preferred preying on the helpless to preying on each other).
Nevertheless the American Civil War was for the most part fought at as high a standard as was known at most periods in history. And yes "Cold Mountain" is probably a good example of that high standard. Imagine what the low standard is like if you want to.
Or for that matter, some parts of the American Revoulution(there were some places where tories and rebels had once been neighbors). Or the Civil War as "fought" in places like Kansas (there it was often less war and more thuggery: the various bands preferred preying on the helpless to preying on each other).
Nevertheless the American Civil War was for the most part fought at as high a standard as was known at most periods in history. And yes "Cold Mountain" is probably a good example of that high standard. Imagine what the low standard is like if you want to.
Theophilus
SOC-13
Obviously, most of this is academic.
A lot of things need to be discussed before a true answer can be arrived at.
1. how self sufficient is the planet?
Most Imperial hi tech hi pop planets relied upon agricultural supplies from other worlds. How long before those billions begin to starve?
2. what type of infrastructure does the planet have?
If everything is wired/networked and basic utilities/communications collapse what happens?
Consider Hong Kong, If I understand rightly, the total population is five to six times what the surface area can hold. If everyone came to the street at the same time there wouldn't be enough room for everone. When power and water fail, If a high tech planet has no hard surface roads and wheeled transport (why build when contra grav is available) what happens to the population.
3. Do the citizens live in arcologies?
Single building cities full of people?
No matter what happens, any large scale conflict can lead to a catastrophe.
A lot of things need to be discussed before a true answer can be arrived at.
1. how self sufficient is the planet?
Most Imperial hi tech hi pop planets relied upon agricultural supplies from other worlds. How long before those billions begin to starve?
2. what type of infrastructure does the planet have?
If everything is wired/networked and basic utilities/communications collapse what happens?
Consider Hong Kong, If I understand rightly, the total population is five to six times what the surface area can hold. If everyone came to the street at the same time there wouldn't be enough room for everone. When power and water fail, If a high tech planet has no hard surface roads and wheeled transport (why build when contra grav is available) what happens to the population.
3. Do the citizens live in arcologies?
Single building cities full of people?
No matter what happens, any large scale conflict can lead to a catastrophe.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Ahh, but how safe are Grav cities at war? or inter-Arcology Wars for that matter?
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Would certainly make for some awesome cinema!
Grav cities would have the ability to change altitude. Perhaps even landing since they might have been built on the ground in the first place. Or perhaps go low-orbital.
Archologies are more than likely the solution for solving hi-pop. Who'd want to cut down all of the forests, parks etc.
As for terrorist...they have limits. Usually resources. Civil war would certainly bring on field of combat issues. Where would a civilization want to fight if it were high tech.
savage
Archologies are more than likely the solution for solving hi-pop. Who'd want to cut down all of the forests, parks etc.
As for terrorist...they have limits. Usually resources. Civil war would certainly bring on field of combat issues. Where would a civilization want to fight if it were high tech.
savage
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Would they have to be enormous, considering the intense Gravity (40g from jupiter) and Radiation? (need a lot of shielding)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
My Lord Baron,
the radiation may be a problem but the G rating of a Jupiter sized gas giant is "only" 2.5-3G, so that shouldn't be a problem. Weather may be another factor to consider.
the radiation may be a problem but the G rating of a Jupiter sized gas giant is "only" 2.5-3G, so that shouldn't be a problem. Weather may be another factor to consider.
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