Classic Traveller: The Lost Rules

[DonM]

As some of you know, Marc asked me to look into the BFB reprint issues and prepare recommendations for him on corrective steps.

In the process of getting forum input on that, one suggestion was about rules that fell between the cracks of various CT editions (1977 LBB, 1981 LBB, 1982 TTB and 1983 STT)...

I forward this to Marc with some research I did on the topic, and he liked the idea a lot...

So, I'm wanting forum input on anything I might have missed...

Here's the premise (at the moment): the rule MUST have appeared in one of these three editions: 1977 LBB, 1982 TTB or 1983 STT, AND it did NOT appear in the 1981 LBB. For purposes of this task, we're using the 1981 LBB text as the "official canon", and the rest as "secondary texts"; personally, I lean towards Starter Traveller, but that's not my decision.

Anyway, I currently have the following items; please ADD to this list!

SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS (Book 1)
Throwing Blades (The Traveller Book)
Weapon Length Effects (1977)
Reloading (The Traveller Book)
Armor (The Traveller Book)
Darkness and Night (The Traveller Book)
Cover and Concealment (The Traveller Book)
Zero Gravity (The Traveller Book)

WEAPON DAMAGE (Book 1) [1977 vs. 1981]

STARSHIP REVENUE (Book 2)
Cargo (1977 vs. 1981)
Passengers (1977 vs. 1981)

STARSHIP DESIGN (Book 2)
Shipyards (1977)
Mercenary Cruiser Standard Design (errata for 1981)
Construction Times-Standard Hulls (1977 vs. 1981)
Drive Potential (1977 vs. 1981)
Construction Times-Customized Hulls (1977 vs. 1981)
Computer Models (1977 vs. 1981)

STARSHIP COMBAT (Book 2)
Pulse Lasers (Starter Traveller)
Hit Locations (1977 vs. 1981)
Planetary Defensive Fires (1977)
Range Band Combat (Starter Traveller)

WORLDS (Book 3)
Jump Routes (1977)
Hydrographics Formula (1977/1981/Starter Traveller)

 

[mike wightman]

Combat example - in TTB And ST

What about suggested errata - in LBB2 the cost for standard hulls is clearly wrong for the 800t and 1000t hull since they don't offer a discount.

 

[DonM]

Yes, LBB 1981 errata would be very appropriate. Is there a collection somewhere?

 

[Gruffty]

Sorry Don, but I'm bit confused about this...

Is this an attempt to make a once-and-for-all definitive basic (i.e. books 1, 2 and 3) CT ruleset?

 

[aramis]

Grufty:

there are essentially 4 different versions of CT:
1977 CT LBB1-3
1981 CT LBB1-3
1982 CT TTB
1984? CT Starter Traveller

The Big Floppies only included the 1981.

I mentioned that it would be nice if they included the missing bits in other CT versions.

So, yes, it's an attempt to collate a definitive CT ruleset.

 

[DonM]

Well, 'officially', it's an attempt to make sure that the purchasers of the BFB reprints have the entire corpus of the Traveller Core rules available to them.

The current item on Marc's list I'm working on is "gathering together any issues with the BFB reprints so FFE can make those available to the owners".

So, I asked the forums for all the BFB reprint issues, and during that discussion, the question came up about Traveller rules NOT available in the BFB reprint because they were not in the 1981 LBBs.

So I put together the list of rules above which do not appear in the 1981 LBBs, but appear in one of the other three versions, so Marc could consider the idea.

Now, I'm making sure that list is complete, by asking the forum.

 

[mike wightman]

1st edition High Guard should be included in that case - there were some good ideas in it that never made it to second edition.

 

[Supplement Four]

1st edition High Guard should be included in that case - there were some good ideas in it that never made it to second edition.

You just jogged my memory. 1st edition HG is one CT book I've never seen. But, I know it has a Fuel Purifier rule, not unlike the one in Trillion Credit Squdron.

Don, that's a rule that should be included.



EDIT: Oh, and I just remembered Sensors. In 1st edition Traveller, sensors are given a much different treatment than in 2nd edition (IIRC, the measurments weren't even metric!). But, the rules for sensors were a little more expansive than what you have in most people's LBB1-3.

 

[aramis]

Yes, Bk5:HG1E is another 'missing bit'...

Oh, and as an aside, having all the same on the CD would make me get the CD.

 

[Supplement Four]

The thoughts keep a-comin'. I'm not sure if 1st edition Traveller ever came out and specfically stated it, but I know it is heavily implied (and confirmed by LKW) that vessels with 1G M-Drives cannot make escape velocity from Size 8+ worlds. Those vessels can only service orbital docks.

That should be included. Many people playing CT don't realize this.

Second, look at fuel skimming. Refer to the Standard Worlds table on pg. 79 of the TB (and included in other editions of Traveller as well). Glancing at that table will quickly tell you if your vessel can skim a gas giant and make escape velocity. Unless the GG is small and not very dense, like Uranus, you'll need a 2G M-Drive to skim. On a large GG, like Jupiter, you need a 3G drive to skim.

 

[mike wightman]

No, you don't.

Go read a physics text

And if LKW confirmed it it shows he lacks a physics education as well

Escape velocity is just that, velocity. If your acceleration can build up to escape velocity you can take a very long time and build up slowly with a low acceleration (go read about real world ion engines), eventually you will do it.

For fuel skimming you have to take into account the orbital velocity of the craft about to conduct the skim... this could get very technical.

Short answer, 1G drives can achieve orbit - it takes time

1G drives can skim fuel from any size gas giant.

 

[kafka47]

The subsidized liner was missing from Starter Traveller as was a picture of the lab ship. The Traveller book also had some missing starships. Different Gravity effects were never spelled out in my copy.

 

[far-trader]

...I know it is heavily implied (and confirmed by LKW) that vessels with 1G M-Drives cannot make escape velocity from Size 8+ worlds.

I think we should stick to simply noting rules in this thread, not interpreting and debating them.

 

[far-trader]

I know it's outside the purview of a strictly LBB1-3 cleanup but it is related to the changes from '77 to 81.

In LBB4 Mercenary (pg 43) there is a note on changing the prices for a few items and the TL for two armors. It wasn't spelled out in Mercenary that this applied to the '77 printing and not the later corrected printings (since at the time there was no correcter version). The way the BFB and CD are compiled could easily cause confusion and have users applying the cost reductions again and flipping the TL of the armors back the wrong way around.

 

[aramis]

Actually, no, one need not have higher thrust than local G's to skim... one must merely be able to maintain escape velocity while not burning up; generally, a meaningless distinction, but given the presumptions of gravitic technology, quite possibly very relevant. Further, TTB page 51 implies quite strongly that it's in fact diving passes, as well.

Also, given that other editions give various means of takeoff... MT allows for overthrust, and specifies take-off times for 1G drives. TNE has a Contragrav, which allows full rated thrust less 2% of local G's. T4 has contragrav as well. Under TNE, it's possible to take off from a 48G area with a 1G drive...

Further, an airframe can take off with less than 1G thrust. (Boeing's 737-600 generates 22,700lb-thrust, with a maximum take-off weight of 145,500lbs max TO weight. ref)

With 1G, one can push a clean airframe to rather high altitudes...

 

[boomslang]

STARSHIP COMBAT (Book 2)
Pulse Lasers (Starter Traveller)
Hit Locations (1977 vs. 1981)
Planetary Defensive Fires (1977)
Range Band Combat (Starter Traveller)

And somewhere in there should address the speed of missile movement.. 5Gs ("standard" as per SS3)? 6Gs (as I remember it)? More?

Plus, a specific DM for targeting missiles in regular combat (not during Anti-Missile fire) (-3 To Hit?) may or may not have been in there once upon a time, as well...

 

[Supplement Four]

RE: Escape Velocity

I'm not debating real science. What I'm stating is what is evident in original CT rules.

As I said, not many CT players know that a ship with a 1G drive cannot lift from the surface of a Size 8+ world.

I'm not debating the correct or incorrect aspect of it. I'm simple stating the fact. Don is looking for lost rules. This is one of them.

The evidence is spread all over Traveller.



Striker Book 2: Page 41. The movement rate of a spaceship is determined in the same way as that for a grav vehicle; the ship's maneuver drive rating is used as it's G value. A ship with a G rating equal to or less than the planetary gravity may not take part in combat actions except from orbit.

Striker Book 3: Page 11. One G is needed to keep the vehicle in the air (and if its thrust is less than one G, the vehicle cannot move); thrust in excess of one G is used for maneuver. Thus to find maneuver Gs, subtract one from the total G value.

Non-Starships in Traveller Book: All the vessels that have "wings" have M-Drive ratings better than 1G.

Slow Boat: 3G
Pinnance: 5G
Slow Pinnance: 2G
Shuttle: 3G
Fighter: 6G

High Guard Small Craft Construction: The minimum drive size of 1ton means you get a minimum 2G drive.

Loren K Wiseman's 20ton Launch: Loren says specifically that the 1G Launch is rated with 2G maneuver drives (using the Striker rule mentioned above). 1G of the vessel is used for lift, while the vessel is rated at 1G for space operations.

Andy Slack's White Dwarf article "Expanding Universe": In this article, Andy says, "On planets of Size 8 or greater and of the same order of density as Earth, a Free Trader--or anything with a 1G drive--cannot take off". The article goes on to speculate how vessels rated at 1G could escape from Size 8+ worlds with external help (boosters).





Whether you agree with the principle or not, that's a lot of evidence (from LKW and Andy Slack, no less!) contained within Traveller that 1G vessels were not intended to leave dirtside from Size 8+ worlds.

Out of curiosity, I looked at The Traveller Adventure to see the Harrier's planets it calls upon. All worlds described in the text are either Size 7 or less, or the Harrier only visits the high port.



Don, I suggest asking your BITS partner, Andy, about this...and Marc too!

My guess is that Marc dropped the idea in the name of simplicity for later Traveller editions.

 

[beowulf2044]

Book One Damage

In the Book One second edition, they dropped the modifiers of the damage. Unfortunately, they made errors in damage for Body Pistol and Cutlass. The proper damge for Body Pistol is 2D6 (not 3D6) and the damage for cutlass is 3D6 (not 2D6).

These damage values are properly reflected in the Citizens of the Imperium Supplement, but they're also wrongly set in Snapshot.

 

[Supplement Four]

Don, besides the Fuel Processing Plant, there's also the Jump Governor from 1st ed. High Guard. Cost 300,000Cr and 1ton space.

 

[DonM]

Hmm... this has gotten a LOT off focus...

My task is limited to any items missing from the 1981 LBBs, but appearing in the 1977 LBBs, TTB and STT. Nothing else (because I'd add the 1983 Mayday change to the Shifting Fire rule, for example--that should have been in STT).

Any notes from HG1 are off the table for now (also, it's the SINGLE piece missing from my personal collection). So are items missing from TTB or STT... Remember, this is really part of the BFB Reprints cleanup; this has NOTHING to do with the CD (yet).

Now to the other issues...

1977 Sensors. Note to go check those.

Escape Velocity/Fuel Skimming: 1981 LBB drop confirmed as errata closure; these items were dropped on purpose; could appear as comparison (as the Cargo/Passenger table differences are already noted).

Mercenary fixes. A note about 1977 LBB errata in Mercenary already being included in the 1981 LBB text might be acceptable. Need to confirm.

Boomslang: both the note on targeting missiles during regular laser fire and the speed of missiles are pulled from TTB/STT already.

Beowulf2044: the errata for the cutlass and body pistol are in the TTB/STT text, and already noted

Thanks for the notes so far.