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Closed Starship Environment - Recycling & Conservation

pennshome723 said:
...For Ghods sake sometimes you guys go way to far and beat a dead horse....:file_21::file_21::file_21:

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You gotta beat it a bit to make it tender. :D
 
Carlobrand said:
Actually, waste volume's likely to be a good deal less unless you're projecting volume for food concentrates. A lot of foods have a fair volume of water in their mass, and if your ship is applying the custom of using water to ferry solid wastes, your ship is likely to do as HG's ship does, drawing out the water content in some manner to minimize water lost with the solid wastes.



Wha...??? I didn't think our current spacecraft were bringing home the solid wastes. Strikes me that dumping in space is not really an issue so long as you give the stuff a trajectory into the atmosphere - as long as you don't give it an orbit vector or an escape vector, it'll make it's way to the local gravity well and burn up on re-entry. Might be rules about dumping waste near a vacuum world - I'd hate to be outside in a spacesuit and get hit by something dropping down from way up there. As for ships and suchlike, given that a Traveller ship has a hull rated to repel micrometeor hits up to the impact power of a WW-II tank gun, I really don't think dried poop is going to do much, especially as the best ways to dry it out and recover the water content are also likely to leave it in a crumbly or powder state.
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It already HAS an orbit vector. You have to specifically give a de-orbit vector, or you've just put it into a different, elliptical, orbit.
 
aramis said:
It already HAS an orbit vector. You have to specifically give a de-orbit vector, or you've just put it into a different, elliptical, orbit.
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Sorry; I tend to think of ships either inbound to land or outbound toward jump. Inbound, or if the ship's already orbiting, they just need to make sure it's going to end up on a vector that intersects the planet. Outbound, the typical Traveller ship has escape velocity pretty early on; unless they deliberately counter that, whatever they space is going to escape the planet's pull and end up in a solar orbit.
 
Fritz_Brown said:
Oh, great, and now, if you use jump masking............
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If an object from this universe exits the jump field of a ship, will it precipitate out or will it remain trapped in jump space? Will it travel alongside the ship and exit at the 100D border, or will it precipitate out wherever it happens to be, or will it just become part of the jump "universe"?
 
Carlobrand said:
If an object from this universe exits the jump field of a ship, will it precipitate out or will it remain trapped in jump space? Will it travel alongside the ship and exit at the 100D border, or will it precipitate out wherever it happens to be, or will it just become part of the jump "universe"?
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According to everything I've read over the years, canonically, said object is destroyed never to appear anywhere again.
 
Couple of things here.

Organic waste is a pretty valuable commodity on worlds with artificial biospheres. I can easily see starports demanding the right to remove all organic waste from incomming ships as an offset to the life support the crew and passengers will consume while there - or else they must pay a fee.

Also, dumping waste in jumpspace would deform the jump bubble of the ship, and may cause a misjump. YMMV IYTU, of course.
 
Carlobrand said:
Why?
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That urine and fecal matter will be dumped into the hydrogen envelope surrounding the ship, causing the bubble to deform by displacing that hydrogen. The shape of the jump bubble changing in jumpspace in mid-jump could change the ship's trajectory and will definitely change the field interactions between the ship and jumpspace.

EDIT: Not to even mention that the ejected waste would create a 10 Diameter Limit and then a 100 Diameter Limit next to the ship itself.

In short, the jump would become crappy.

Of course, since I said YMMV IYTU, you could just decide that I was full of Bovine Stuff and this idea is nothing but a load of manure. :D
 
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Emm - you are assuming a hydrogen filled jump bubble.

There are many versions of Traveller where a hydrogen filed jump bubble doesn't exist.
 
Patron Zero said:
Past those needs-required elements, how much more aboard ship can made efficient in both material consumption and the energy required to recover such ?
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All my TL11+ ships strip the C from CO2 and dump the C. H2O is wrung out of waste and the atmosphere dehumidified. So, for practical purposes, air & water is fully recycled. For commercial & regular Mil ships that is all that is done. No food recycle.
 
mike wightman said:
Emm - you are assuming a hydrogen filled jump bubble.

There are many versions of Traveller where a hydrogen filed jump bubble doesn't exist.
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They're not mentioned. Doesn't prove they're not there. Especially when the fuel consumption rules are utterly contradictory. :devil:


Hans
 
HG_B said:
MgT has one. Don't have my books in front of me but it is MRB I think.
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Yup, it is.

In addition in T5 there are 3 ways you can make a jump field - a jump bubble, jump plates and hull grid. The jump bubble method doesn't mention filling it with hydrogen as far as I can tell.
 
mike wightman said:
Yup, it is.

In addition in T5 there are 3 ways you can make a jump field - a jump bubble, jump plates and hull grid. The jump bubble method doesn't mention filling it with hydrogen as far as I can tell.
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The jump bubble hydrogen isn't used to make a jump field. It's used to dilute and soften a portion (a bubble) of jumpspace so that the ship isn't smashed flat when the jump drive slams it across the dimensional border.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Hans
 
aramis said:
Show me a rulebook that specifies a Hydrogen bubble...
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When I get home from work. I do not deny that I may be wrong. However, that is why I included the YMMV IYTU.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch. Besides, my point was that I can imagine a reason why you do not want to do any waste dumps during jump.

Because honestly, and off-topic, I use the hydrogen consumed for jump as a heat sink to cool the ship during jump drive use and transit.
 
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