Commerce Raiders

[marginaleye]

Thanks to "Supplement 9: Fighting Ships" we have a pretty good idea what destroyer escorts (e.g. the Fer-de-Lance and Chrysanthemum-classes) look like. Is there any canonical information, however, about the other side of the coin? While I've always assumed that licensed privateers, driven by the desire for prize money, shoulder at least part of the burden of wartime commerce raiding, presumably the Imperium also builds small fast warships, specifically intended to get deep behind the enemy's lines, and just cause confusion and trouble (something considerably smaller, and thus more "disposable" than cruiser-sized "fleet intruders" like the Azhanti High Lightning).

I'm envisioning a ~1000 dton escort-sized ship, capable of making long six-parsec jumps, but of only making 2 (or perhaps 3) Gs of acceleration. Just fast enough in normal space to intercept poorly-guarded convoys, but with enough strategic mobility to outrun (or at least to keep pace with) any courier vessels dispatched to alert other star systems of its presence. In practice, very large fuel tanks would also make "hit and run" raiding (without stopping to refuel) practical. The hull would be fully streamlined, to allow the broadest range of frontier refueling options, and to eliminate dependence on bulky ship's boats. I'm envisioning a couple of sandcaster turrets, a couple of laser turrets (mostly defensive), and one really big battery of six single particle accelerator turrets (keeping the total number of batteries down reduces the need for gunners, and thus space-consuming staterooms, and a "high-factor" battery could inflict critical hits on small unarmored merchant ships). No ship's boats, no troops, no staterooms or low berths set aside for captives or prize crews -- a vessel like this would be designed strictly for destroying enemy merchants and then moving briskly on, not for seizing prizes (since it would be operating deep in enemy space, prizes would have a lot of trouble getting back to the Imperium, anyway).

Does this sound like the basics of a sensible design? Any suggestions for improvements?

 

[The Oz]

I have always felt that a purpose-built naval commerce destroyer would mount a small spinal mount to engage and destroy any large escorts and would carry a few fighter squadrons armed with nuclear missiles to do the actual dirty work of rounding up and destroying the enemy merchant ships. No civilian ship can stand off even a few decent fighters. It's one of the few things fighters are good for in TRAVELLER.

I do like your idea of having as high a jump capacity as possible to allow "outrunning" the news of its operations. I don't know about jump-6, though; that puts an awful squeeze on space for weapons. Jump-5 would probably be high enough and free up more space for other things.

One other thing to use that space for is extra supplies. A commerce destroyer needs to be able to operate for many weeks, even month without touching at a friendly base. Either it's going to have to rendevous with friendly supply ships or it has to carry enough beans and bullets to support itself for a long while.

I do not recall ever seeing any design that was said to be specifically intended for the commerce-destroying mission but the Azhanti High Lightning class would have been pretty good at it.

 

[marginaleye]

I have always felt that a purpose-built naval commerce destroyer would mount a small spinal mount to engage and destroy any large escorts and would carry a few fighter squadrons armed with nuclear missiles to do the actual dirty work of rounding up and destroying the enemy merchant ships.

I tend to agree, but I was envisioning something intended for preying upon convoys of little Type-R subsidized merchants, protected by Type-T patrol cruisers and Gazelle-class close escorts (or, rather, the non-Imperial equivalents of such vessels) -- for preying on the backwater worlds and "feeder routes," not on the primary trade routes where big (~5-10k dton?) merchant transports, and bigger (destroyer-sized?) escorts are probably the rule.

If I was designing a ~2-5k dton commerce raider, however, I would definitely add fighters, and at least one bay-sized primary weapon. Spinal mounts don't really become practical until the ~15k dton size range (one idea I've been toying with for a long time is a ~15-20k dton "miniature" version of the Lightning-class cruiser, designed for lower-priority missions).

I do like your idea of having as high a jump capacity as possible to allow "outrunning" the news of its operations. I don't know about jump-6, though; that puts an awful squeeze on space for weapons. Jump-5 would probably be high enough and free up more space for other things.

I agree jump-6 is a major inconvenience, but the Zhodani are Tech Level 14, right? Which means that even their very best couriers can only make five-parsec jumps. Also, the area that the defenders have to alert increases as the square of the length of the commerce raider's longest possible jump. Just knowing that "they could be anywhere by now" is, itself, pretty demoralizing. Still, the point is a valid one.

One other thing to use that space for is extra supplies. A commerce destroyer needs to be able to operate for many weeks, even month without touching at a friendly base. Either it's going to have to rendevous with friendly supply ships or it has to carry enough beans and bullets to support itself for a long while.

Equipping the ship with energy weapons instead of missle racks would reduce its need for onboard storage space. I was thinking about adding a Frozen Watch, but it occurs to me that a ship this size is either going to have to either prevail very quickly, or flee at once (hence, the large fuel reserve) -- it's not really designed for long slugging matches with serious escorts. If a hit-and-run raider gets into enough trouble to need to thaw out a frozen watch, it's probably going to be too badly damaged to make it home, anyway (like I said, "disposable").

I do not recall ever seeing any design that was said to be specifically intended for the commerce-destroying mission but the Azhanti High Lightning class would have been pretty good at it.

Agreed, but sending something like a Lightning-class cruiser on most such missions would, in my opinion, be grotesque overkill.

 

[The Oz]

tend to agree, but I was envisioning something intended for preying upon convoys of little Type-R subsidized merchants, protected by Type-T patrol cruisers and Gazelle-class close escorts (or, rather, the non-Imperial equivalents of such vessels) -- for preying on the backwater worlds and "feeder routes," not on the primary trade routes where big (~5-10k dton?) merchant transports, and bigger (destroyer-sized?) escorts are probably the rule.

I think this is where we may have failed to make a connection: I was thinking (but did not specify in my reply) that small-ship convoys such as the ones you describe would be the natural prey of the privateers you already mentioned earlier, while the navy's purpose-built raiders would go looking for those big trade routes.

If I was designing a ~2-5k dton commerce raider, however, I would definitely add fighters, and at least one bay-sized primary weapon. Spinal mounts don't really become practical until the ~15k dton size range (one idea I've been toying with for a long time is a ~15-20k dton "miniature" version of the Lightning-class cruiser, designed for lower-priority missions).

I think you're right about the weapons fit for a 2-5k dton raider, and I'd love to see what kind of design you end up with for that 15-20k dton ship.

 

[marginaleye]

I think this is where we may have failed to make a connection: I was thinking (but did not specify in my reply) that small-ship convoys such as the ones you describe would be the natural prey of the privateers you already mentioned earlier, while the navy's purpose-built raiders would go looking for those big trade routes.

As I see it, the privateers won't go very far into enemy territory, because they won't make a profit unless they can bring something valuable back home -- either a valuable cargo, or a whole ship. Taking prizes means carrying troops, boats for boarding operations, and prize crews -- all of which take up a fair amount of room, and hence eat into the ship's strategic mobility. Prizes also have to get back to friendly territory, and navigating small, slow ship through a couple of dozen parsecs of hostile territory would be quite a challenge (especially if the ship was already damaged in the process of being captured). I doubt many privateersmen would take such big risks. Being able to carry enough stolen cargo to make an expedition worthwhile would, likewise, take a big bite out of a commerce raider's strategic mobility. So privateers would only be able to go for "small ship convoys" operating fairly close to the border.

I think you're right about the weapons fit for a 2-5k dton raider, and I'd love to see what kind of design you end up with for that 15-20k dton ship.

I'll try to find the time to whip up three purpose-built commerce raiders: a ~1k dton one, a ~2-5k dton one, and a ~15-20k dton "miniature Lightning-class cruiser." The last of these three might also be useful for conducting small hit-and-run commando raids (with jump troops and fighter support?) deep in enemy territory.

 

[Jame]

I saw a 1k-ton, J4 M~4 commerce raider on the net somewhere, and printed it out 'cause it's a good design. I think it was in one of the webrings...

 

[Tobias]

Originally posted by marginaleye:
I agree jump-6 is a major inconvenience, but the Zhodani are Tech Level 14, right? Which means that even their very best couriers can only make five-parsec jumps. Also, the area that the defenders have to alert increases as the square of the length of the commerce raider's longest possible jump.

It is downright impossible to design an even halfway useful small warship with jump-6 and an acceleration as high as even 2-3Gs. Not to talk of armor, and you'll be needing that!
Furthermore, the advantages are not that big. In many cases, there are only a few more systems you might access by J-6. A courier network will catch up with you anyway sooner or later, because it wasts no time refueling etc. And the Zhodani have partial TL 15, with a few J-6 couriers (I think there is one example in GTA).
Note that the kind of commerce raiding you envision (against protected convoys) is a very difficult thing. The lone raider catching single merchants (or small groups of them) is probably more successful.

Regards,

Tobias

 

[mike wightman]

How about using the Imperiallines secret jump 6, maneuver 6, 10 hardpoints "Frontier Transport" as the basis for your commerce raider.
It has 194t of cargo and a 95t shuttle hanger to play around with, e.g.:
add 10 more hardpoints
or add a weapons bay(requires mixing in HG weapons)
add some carried fighters
add more staterooms and low berths for carrying troops, prize crews etc.
add a second type Z power plant to provide agility and EP for weapons(this is a big fiddle though )
It's a place to start.

 

[Falkayn]

Gentlefolk,

I have 2 possible ships for your perusal, and a discourse on commerce raiding by Whipsnade himself for your enlightenment:

600-ton Close Escort

7,000-ton Light Carrier

Commerce Raiding and Convoys

 

[Tobias]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
[QB] How about using the Imperiallines secret jump 6, maneuver 6, 10 hardpoints "Frontier Transport" as the basis for your commerce raider.

I think you are misremembering something here.
a) The TJ, as presented in MT, has J-6, M-2
b) It is a MT design, which is a whole different animal from a book 2 or book 5 design.
c) Under CT rules, a Jump-6, Maneuver-6 vessel is all but impossible. Engines, fuel and bridge would take up 98% of such a vessel.

Regards,

Tobias

 

[lightsenshi]

There's a rather sharp difference between a privateer and a commerce raider. A privateer is (as far as I can tell, anyways) really a pirate working for a corporation or a government. In other words, he's there to make money at the expense of others.

A commerce raider is simply out to deny assets to a given group. The U-boats in WWII (and WWI) are an example of commerce raiders. They weren't out to capture enemy shipping, they were out to destroy it.

 

[eiladayn]

A privateer is a pirate with a letter of marque from a government giving him and his crew permission to prey of the ships of another government. Francis Drake was a privateer.

Pappy

 

[mike wightman]

Tobias said:

I think you are misremembering something here.

Nope, I remember very well .
I was also quoting the design directly from the Traveller Adventure.
It is a book 2 design:
Hull 2000t streamlined,
bridge-40t fitted with a model/6 computer-7t
jump drive Z(6)-125t
maneuver drive Z(6)-47t
power plant Z(6)-73t
fuel-1320t
21 staterooms-84t
10 low berths-5t
10 hardpoints-10t
shuttle-95t
cargo-194t

When converted over to MT it dropped down to the figures you quoted and you're also correct that it is not possible as a High Guard design. But there it is in canon, use and enjoy

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually, waaaay back when, FASA had a purpose built Commerce raider in the Adventure class Ships volume one set. (It is one of those designs mentioned in the T20 rule book with a Weapon bay under 1000T.) It was of course broken under the second edition of book 5, and having never seen the first edition....

I believe the typical commerce raider should be in the same size range as a Kinnunir. Between 1000 and 2000 tons. More than enough to disrupt merchant shipping and dealing with small escorts but small enough to not be a major investment in time, crew, or capital. The other option is to give a Cruiser a handful of escorts and a logistics ship or two and turn them loose in the enemy shipping lanes. Then you could go after convoys. Use a couple of CruRons this way and you will tie up all sorts of Capital ships trying to protect the trade lanes and convoys and not dealing with your fleet. Look how much havoc the Graf Spee caused in WWII. Or how much of the British Fleet the two German Battleships tied up just by existing in a Harbor that they could sortie from. How far could you spread 8-16 Cruisers in ones and twos. You could tie up ships in three to four sectors looking for you. And easily destroy any merchants that you came across. they would have to deploy Cruisers and Drednaughts all over the place in sufficient numbers to make sure they could quickly overwhelm you and destroy you to end the threat. In the mean time that diverts much of their fleet from the front line. The problem with hunting Commerce raiders is the communication lag and the fact that the Raiders always have the element of surprise. You are tied to your shipping they can go anywhere. Or you can tie yourself to fuel sources. (How many of those are in a sector?)

Nasty!

 

[Jame]

Wouldn't a commerce raider take some stuff from its prizes, i.e. fuel and ammunition? Stuff that would extend its supplies?

 

[BetterThanLife]

A great Commerce Raider is the AHL. It carries plenty of supplies, has Jump-5 capability and a company of Marines, (In case you wanted to take some prizes.) It also carries a boat load of fighters to deal with the Merchies while the ship is dealing with Escorts. The only real problem with the AHL's jump 5 capability is that when you try to build escorts that are capable of J5 they fall very short of useful.

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by Jame]:
Wouldn't a commerce raider take some stuff from its prizes, i.e. fuel and ammunition? Stuff that would extend its supplies?

Fuel it could take, life support (assuming your LS requirements are compatible) it could take, but probably not ammunition. Despite what TRAVELLER seems to say, I don't think (as an example) that Zhodani missiles would fit in Imperial missile launchers. At least, not without modifying the missile launchers. Perhaps a commerce raider would carry the necessary parts for such modifications as cargo, and do them in jump if it became necessary.

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by Jame]:
Wouldn't a commerce raider take some stuff from its prizes, i.e. fuel and ammunition? Stuff that would extend its supplies?

Only if the prize is still alive or in a good enough shape that supplies can be removed.

If I were building a commerce raider, I wouldn't count on being able to resupply from the enemy, particularly for ammunition. Resupplying from ships would also take some time and could be a fairly risky proposition.

On the defensive side, if I knew that a raider was frequently stopping to resupply from captured/destryed ships, I'd set a trap with some bait ships and then have my commerce raider killers waiting for the raider to start resupplying.

Ron

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Jame]:
Wouldn't a commerce raider take some stuff from its prizes, i.e. fuel and ammunition? Stuff that would extend its supplies?

Whenever possible. Which is why ammunition supplies have virtually never been interchangeable between potential enemies. (Making it that much harder to be allies later.)

 

[Jame]

Plus, it would explain why a smart raider detonates "useless" ammo when leaving...