cost of t20

[trader jim]

correct me if im wrong - $44.95 for t20.
Wotc raised price for core book to $30.00.
thats $74.95 PLUS TAX. i will NOT ever paythat kind of money for a game!! i can think of a million other things tosay but we will just leave it at that (for now)

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Originally posted by trader jim:
correct me if im wrong - $44.95 for t20.
Wotc raised price for core book to $30.00.
thats $74.95 PLUS TAX. i will NOT ever paythat kind of money for a game!! i can think of a million other things tosay but we will just leave it at that (for now)

if you think that's bad, add in an exchange of 63 cents US for a Canadian Dollar and cross border duties and you can durn near double the price for me. As for the rest of my thoughts. I seem to have shanghai'd the smoke and mirrors topic in T5, my thoughts and their evolution can be read there.

Garf.

 

[Friadoc]

Actually,

WotC did not /raise/ the price of the Players Handbook, but ceased the initial price reduction they placed on it when it released.

The book was always going to be $29.95, but they initially sold it for $19.95 to give customers switching to Third Edition a price break.

Next, the books are gaming books, so thusly not was 'must have' as food or lodgings, so they can be just about any price the publisher feels people will pay.

If the quality of the product, Traveller t20, is what I'm assuming it is going to be then I have no problem paying the cover price for it - in fact, I did pay a bit less as I took advantage of the pre-order.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

The retailer can just to charge whatever he likes. Agreed.

I can chose NOT to pay or PLAY. and I won't and shan't.

Garf.

 

[MJD]

The T20 rules are aimed at the D20 crowd, most of whom already own D20 products.

SOme others will conisder the cost of the PHB a decent investment when "spread out" between T20 and all those other d20 games they'd like to play.

Some existing Traveller fans will fall into those two categories. Others won't want a new rules set - and why should they? They have CT, MT, TNE, T4...

So here it is... "while the T20 rules may appeal to some or even many existing Traveller players, they are aimed mainly at new players. The T20 LINE, on the other hand, is deliberately rules-light and is aimed at Traveller players of all kinds, regardless of their rules preference."

So Garf, you don't have to buy T20 if you don't want, okay? (grin). But you will like the setting books and the Grand Adventures, whatever rules you use.

 

[Tanuki]

Originally posted by Garf:
The retailer can just to charge whatever he likes. Agreed.

I can chose NOT to pay or PLAY. and I won't and shan't.

Garf.

Garf -- T20 Lite is a free download from http://www.travellerrpg.com/ and if you'll give me your email, I'll send you the secret-handshake stuff.

If you like T20 Lite, then you can pick up T20 one of these days and thumb your nose at WotC. <grin>

Brook (kitsune@sff.net)

 

[Tanuki]

Originally posted by Tanuki:
Garf -- T20 Lite is a free download from http://www.travellerrpg.com/ and if you'll give me your email, I'll send you the secret-handshake stuff.

Brook (kitsune@sff.net)

You too, Trader Jim.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Originally posted by MJD:

So here it is... "while the T20 rules may appeal to some or even many existing Traveller players, they are aimed mainly at new players. The T20 LINE, on the other hand, is deliberately rules-light and is aimed at Traveller players of all kinds, regardless of their rules preference."

So Garf, you don't have to buy T20 if you don't want, okay? (grin). But you will like the setting books and the Grand Adventures, whatever rules you use.

At the risk of sounding like a Brown-Nose (since I suspect that MJD is the Initials of the listed author for those products.) I DID like the Linkworlds documents in the main page. So much so that If it comes out in hardcopy and I would buy and hope to run it.

I'm affraid also the once my angry petulance fades I may break down and buy t20 too. Since the players I'm most likely to recruit... (several have at least the 3rd ed PHB and one is a StarWars GM..) OWN core rule books themselve I'm not in an impossible bind... Combined with Tanuki's advice (and offer, THANKS! I may take you up on that.) I frankly AM tempted to buy T20 and thumb my nose at WotC but that desicion will wait on the arrival of T20 at my FLGS. If happens in November I'll have just spent my disposable income on a trip down to toronto to visit my dad on his birthday and trip up to Winnipeg to attend WarCon X, prior that I'll be budgeting carefully.... but... It's possible. One of my frustrating flaws is that I have difficulty sustaining my anger no matter what the perceived injustice. Leaving me vulnerable to 'reasonable people' and their reasoning.

Garf.

PS - MJD the short stories weren't half bad Either The Vargr character came off a little man-in-a-fur-suit-ish, But it's hard to do subtle characterization in a short story. Once I finish some House guest preparations this week I'll probably get my Traveller books out of storage and start priming my own creative pump with Library Data and news entries. Then maybe I'll see about some series submissions of my own.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Series? I meant Serious. As in trying to claim the pay offered for submissions. BTW your rates compare favourable with those listed by mags in the 1997 writers handbook and that was for PRINT mags.

It will be fun to crank up those old writing muscles... haven't used them since about halfway through nursing school.

Garf.

 

[lord irial]

$45 is probably too much for a game book for a lot of people. I haven't really decided if I can afford it, but having pre-ordered it from my FLGS several months ago, I'm committed. If I have to go to the local college to find a group to play it with, I'll do it...

I digress.

I don't play Warhammer 'cause I could never justify the outlay for the basic armies and rules to myself. It's been suggested (albiet by the retailers who sell the set) that I pool money with another interested newbie and buy the set together.

No reason this couldn't be said of a game like Traveller, too. Keep it at the friend's house where you play, or leave it with the GM with the understanding that you can come over to referrence it or "borrow" it to work out new characters. Give people the option of buying out your shares of the book over time if you lose interest or you eventually decide to get one for yourself.

It only takes one copy of the book for a group to play the game, though multiple copies can be more convenient. I'd be surprised of someone in your group didn't own a D&D3e PHB, too, that they could bring to the games and share out.

It really depends on how much you're willing to cooperate and compromise. Most successful Player Characters do this as a matter of course. No reason the Players can't as well.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Access to PHB's is not a problem.

as for the rest of it. It's not that I don't have a good disposable income. I'm a single Nurse with no kids. It's where I choose to spend it.

If you want a deal on Warhammer go to ebay. I got the core of my army, a bazillion paints and tools and the core rulebooks about $1000 cdn value for less than $350 cdn.

The bigger the deal (assuming there's not too much of what you don't want in it. ) the more economical, a Friend of mine just got a 'Nids army (2000+ points and including a special character) for $150 Canadian.

there's other ways to save, buying latex wall paint at wal-mart and diluting it to the milk like consistancy of the latex paints GW sells you for 5 dollars a bottle. Buying one tank and using dremel tool surgery and rare earth magnets to make it modular enough that you don't have to buy a new model for each of the five or 6 varients.

Or not to play.

I took the former route for warhammer. I probably will do the latter for T20. However, things may change. If interest is high in my D&D group. well between the four of us there's 3 PHB's... And there's my friends who have the starwars book. If I recruit one of those three... possibilities, choices.

Though right now I choose not to buy. Won't be an issue really until the damn thing show's up in my FLGS... then... well. we'll see how good my impulse controll is. (as regards traveller, not good. but Gurps and WotC seem to be conspiring against their will to make it better.)

Garf.

 

[Vargas]

I think that one thing that gets lost in cost discussions/agruments is the fact that RPG books are expensive, period. 99.9% of the time I don't care if the relative value of this or that approach appears attractive, it's how to get the $40, $50 or however much into my pocket in the first place.

At this point I find that my too few gaming dollars are actually chasing too few products. Furthermore gaming dollars that go unspent find their way into other minor things like home repair/improvement, clothes. . .

 

[RabidVargr]

My 2 creds,

I've got T20 pre-ordered. I don't have dnd3e. Not gonna get it either. was just fine with 2nd edition.

Why am I not getting it to play t20?

XP is simple. level xp+(next level*1000)= new level. you don't need really any more out of the DND3E book, and if you find something you are unsure of that would be in that book, get with your players beforehand and fudge it.

T20 will be 430+ pages of goodness. Gimme my dang book hunter!!!!

RV

(pickpockets his 2 creds and a

back to his pocket)

mmmmmmm lunch!

 

[far-trader]

Just to put this whole price point debate in some perspective (mine ) the last time I went to buy a new novel to read, the hardbacks were about Can $40-$60 (plus tax) so I went to get a paperback instead. Imagine my shock to find them at about Can $15 (plus tax). I vowed to never set foot in the fancy pants book stores again. It'll only be the divey used book stores for me now, where I can usually find the paperback I want for a couple bucks in near primo shape, I just have to be able to wait a year or so for it to cycle in and lucky enough to snag it before anyone else does.

So, between a novel that will (I hope) entertain me for a couple or few nights for Can $15 - $60 or more, or T20 and 'that other outfits' book that will almost certainly provide hours of diversion every week for years (I hope) for about Can $120 I have no problem buying T20.

As for the comment above of never spending that much for a game, I certainly have on just about every other version of Traveller and it shames me to admit it but easily that much many times over on all the CCG craziness (at an easy to swallow Can $10 - $20 a pop)

I guess it comes down to, like so many things, what will you pay for your idea of fun? I know sports nuts who think nothing of plopping down Can $800 for a new bike/skis/etc every few years and other people who go see a movie a week dropping Can$20 per for ticket, snacks, and parking.

I just have to comment too on the WotC defense above. To say that it is not a price increase, just a cancellation of the artificially and voluntarily reduced introduction price out of their kind generous hearts to ease our transition from 2nd ed is in a word, unbelievable! But if you believe that then perhaps you can swallow the government's statement that taxes aren't being raised for the umpteenth time, it's just an adjustment after they kindly kept it artificially low last term to ease our transition to a new government.

Just my 2 crimps, I know I had some change a minute ago, and a smiley too, right here in my pocket? And how did I get this loose fur get on my groat skin jacket?

 

[RabidVargr]

As a response to the sports nut comment above, (sigh) I have to admit that I did buy a $400 paintball gun a while ago that I use at least every other week. It's something that entertains me still (How can I not be entertained by shooting someone in the butt and watching them rubbing it for the next hour or so??) and well worth the cost. Trav (if I can find a F2F group) will entertain me for at least the same amount of time, for a lot less cost. Doesn't help with the weight, but hey, it's only $36. (or $45 for you latecomers)

RV

 

[Nightshade]

Cheese-us people. $45.00 for a hardback 400+ page book that can provide hundreds of hours of entertainment. And you're complaining? It costs $6.00 minimum most places to go see a 90 minute movie. I guess if I just collected role-playing books and never played them I would complain but I intend to run some games. How much does a pair of good gym shoes cost these days? Not $10!

If you can't afford it - get off welfare and get a job, or get a real job, or just get a job.

 

[RabidVargr]

Not ME! It's that darn dirty pinky Trader Jim! Lets get him!!!!

RV

*Starts putting together his superduperpinkyshooter paintball gun*

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by RabidVargr:
Not ME! It's that darn dirty pinky Trader Jim! Lets get him!!!!

RV

Nor me, but all I can afford to equip is a super-soaker

(saving money for other goodies). You know I've always been you with RV, despite kidding, especially against that Graemlin slaver circus owner

Originally posted by RabidVargr:
*Starts putting together his superduperpinkyshooter paintball gun*

Ya know, drawing smilies on your ammo might be kinda fun and/or cool

 

[RabidVargr]

especially against that Graemlin slaver circus owner

Yeah! That's why you get all the stars I didn't eat! ya know, these smilies are about the size of a paintball. (*1) I could use the ones I don't utilize for ... domestic purposes!

*Pours a bunch in his paintball gun*

Heeeeere jim jim jimmy, c'mon pinky, I won't hurt you! (*2)

RV

*Disclaimers*
(*1) Not. I use .68 cal purple balls with puke green color fill.

(*2) Yes I will

 

[Reginald]

While some have legitimate reasons, others just complain for the sake of it (although I found none here). There was one in another board that rant about the price increase of PnP games and how it cuts into his video game funds, so he has to choose one or the other.

Not thinking wisely he chose video games, like one can justify the $50 software, which will last about 18 months until a new version shows up with the same $50 price tag.

I guess he has to make full use of his PC or the VG console.

Of course, I am not without sin. I did choke when the price of T20 was announced. IIRC, it is probably the first singular RPG product to break the $40 threshold. So when a pre-order deal came around in the early summer I jumped on it.

Now it's the waiting that is killing me!