Could the Imperium Have Been Saved?
- Thread starter Arsulon
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Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
GAB posted-"You forgot the pointy-head academic types that have no real jobs or function, but think that because they be educated they know what to do."
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Thanks! That leads me to our next topic on this page called TNE...our buddy, our PAL,...Ilelik Kuligaan. Next sacred cow to the sacrificail altar of the DN-GDW "Political Correctness" of being a Star Viking.
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Thanks! That leads me to our next topic on this page called TNE...our buddy, our PAL,...Ilelik Kuligaan. Next sacred cow to the sacrificail altar of the DN-GDW "Political Correctness" of being a Star Viking.
Oh Oh. A subject I really have no sources, except for the brief mention in Survival Margin.Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
GAB posted-"You forgot the pointy-head academic types that have no real jobs or function, but think that because they be educated they know what to do."
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Thanks! That leads me to our next topic on this page called TNE...our buddy, our PAL,...Ilelik Kuligaan. Next sacred cow to the sacrificail altar of the DN-GDW "Political Correctness" of being a Star Viking.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
In reference to the above topic however, about Strephon and the "wait n See" theory...his journal entry 203-1117 (survival margin p13) is telling...
"I can wait no longer: Dulinor and Lucan will not permit me to. I cannot wait for confirmation of evacuation from Longbow, when each day brings more news of the aplling destruction those two fools are raining down on the empire. <snip stuff about giving his 2 clones a fighting chance to escape, etc>."I wish I had not waited this long. I wish I had not agreed to come to Usdiki. It will be that much harder for the delay."
--Strephon Aella Alkhaloi
Lends some credence to the above theory..methinks.
"I can wait no longer: Dulinor and Lucan will not permit me to. I cannot wait for confirmation of evacuation from Longbow, when each day brings more news of the aplling destruction those two fools are raining down on the empire. <snip stuff about giving his 2 clones a fighting chance to escape, etc>."I wish I had not waited this long. I wish I had not agreed to come to Usdiki. It will be that much harder for the delay."
--Strephon Aella Alkhaloi
Lends some credence to the above theory..methinks.
Strephon fell apart when he hear about the assassination. On top of what he *knew* was coming, his plan to redirect the Imperium had not only failed, it had broken it completely AND slaughtered Strephon's family in the porcess.
His followers took him to a safe place, and in time, he collected himself. Then he came out fighting, trying to put it all back together. And when he couldn't, he made the most courageous decision of the entire rebellion - he stopped fighting.
He, the rightful emperor, stopped trying for his throne, and for one reason - becuase to take it back, he'd have had to kill more of his own poeple (of all factions).
Instead, Strephon dedicated his life to preserving what he could of his people around Usdiki. He, too,, looked after his people until the hammer came down and the lights went out.
But that's not quite all he did.
His followers took him to a safe place, and in time, he collected himself. Then he came out fighting, trying to put it all back together. And when he couldn't, he made the most courageous decision of the entire rebellion - he stopped fighting.
He, the rightful emperor, stopped trying for his throne, and for one reason - becuase to take it back, he'd have had to kill more of his own poeple (of all factions).
Instead, Strephon dedicated his life to preserving what he could of his people around Usdiki. He, too,, looked after his people until the hammer came down and the lights went out.
But that's not quite all he did.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
A chagrinned heretic is pleased to cease his idle speculation.
DaddyDragon
SOC-12
So I wasn't completely off base?! And here I thought I was going to be the next heretical inductee.
I think the defining factor that brought full realization of the suffering caused by the Civil War to Strephon was the loss of his wife and daughter. He knew how much he was suffering each and every day. And he was, after all, the people's emperor. Every report of devastation wrought by the war had a personal cost for him. How could he leave widows and orphans to live in the hollow, empty shells of their survivor's remorse? The same haunting life that he spent the remainder of his years in.
From the looks of it though, MJD has good story in the works. Perhaps it won't be as abyssmal or hopeless for the last Emperor of the 3rd Imperium as my was my own.
Regards,
Larry
notagoodusername
SOC-13
Saving the Imperium would have been a hell of a lot easier if one faction could have told the other they wanted it. The problem is the speed of communication. By the time they get your "I want peace" message they are responding to your last acts, and even if they do reply the sort of problems you get in wartime comms between sides could mean it has taken so long that if you wait for a reply you lose momentum, and if you don't wait you attack them soon after they reply and they decide you wern't sincere.
Did that make any sense?
Shane
Did that make any sense?
Shane
If you want a very good, if not necessarily canon answer to this one, join the TML and ask Doug Berry about Strephon's Tomb. One of the best bit's of Traveller I've ever read.Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
The Fate of margaret
The Fate of Strephon
(not necessarily in that order, though!
(No. I won't even try.)
William
There is an interesing theory that I don't remember where I came onto it, so take it for what it's worth, that Mr. Chamberlain knew exactly what he was doing - and did it to give British industry a short time longer to close the gap.
As I said, I have no memory of where I got that from, but it is an interesting twist on the usual history and important to remember simply because any politican who's good enough at the job to get to Washington (party is irrelevant at this point) will be smart enough to think of the concept. To be cold blooded enough to pull it off is a different set of twisted kicks.
There is never a perfect moment for anything like a declaration of war - it's either after the fact or manufactured; and sometime both.
William
(memeber Democratic Socialists of America and US Army vet. Just so you know the contradictions run deep ;')
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Posted By William:
"Ever read Larsen Whipsnade (aka William Cameron)'s "Wounded Collosus"? It postulates a Rebellion much as you advocate. ISTR it's on the Freelance Traveller web site.
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As a matter of fact, yes I have. An excellent alternative history.
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"There is an interesing theory that I don't remember where I came onto it, so take it for what it's worth, that Mr. Chamberlain knew exactly what he was doing - and did it to give British industry a short time longer to close the gap.
As I said, I have no memory of where I got that from, but it is an interesting twist on the usual history and important to remember simply because any politican who's good enough at the job to get to Washington (party is irrelevant at this point) will be smart enough to think of the concept. To be cold blooded enough to pull it off is a different set of twisted kicks.
There is never a perfect moment for anything like a declaration of war - it's either after the fact or manufactured; and sometime both.
William
(memeber Democratic Socialists of America and US Army vet. Just so you know the contradictions run deep ;')"
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Perhaps never a perfect moment for declaring war, true.
But as a historian of the era, I have yet to read this version you allude to on Mr Chamberlain.
The current crop of "historians" of late are trying to revise a legacy for the last president of these United states. I do not doubt there have been efforts to revise and amend the past and be called "history".
ANd for what its worth, your honesty as a member of the Democratische Socialisten Partei of the US and a US Army vet have no bearing on this Libertarian-Conservative Pagan, and US Army member's response.
We'll leave that for the news forums and talk radio. This is traveller.
"Ever read Larsen Whipsnade (aka William Cameron)'s "Wounded Collosus"? It postulates a Rebellion much as you advocate. ISTR it's on the Freelance Traveller web site.
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As a matter of fact, yes I have. An excellent alternative history.
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"There is an interesing theory that I don't remember where I came onto it, so take it for what it's worth, that Mr. Chamberlain knew exactly what he was doing - and did it to give British industry a short time longer to close the gap.
As I said, I have no memory of where I got that from, but it is an interesting twist on the usual history and important to remember simply because any politican who's good enough at the job to get to Washington (party is irrelevant at this point) will be smart enough to think of the concept. To be cold blooded enough to pull it off is a different set of twisted kicks.
There is never a perfect moment for anything like a declaration of war - it's either after the fact or manufactured; and sometime both.
William
(memeber Democratic Socialists of America and US Army vet. Just so you know the contradictions run deep ;')"
___________________________
Perhaps never a perfect moment for declaring war, true.
But as a historian of the era, I have yet to read this version you allude to on Mr Chamberlain.
The current crop of "historians" of late are trying to revise a legacy for the last president of these United states. I do not doubt there have been efforts to revise and amend the past and be called "history".
ANd for what its worth, your honesty as a member of the Democratische Socialisten Partei of the US and a US Army vet have no bearing on this Libertarian-Conservative Pagan, and US Army member's response.
We'll leave that for the news forums and talk radio. This is traveller.
There was some rumblings on that theory, but it always returned to the fact that Chamberlain and others still had fresh memories of the Great War and did not want to fight another.
This is getting me to hold the idea that the science of history is pretty much dying. There's getting to be too much ideology and agendas involved. I quite understand "Winners write history", but it use to be that historian could look at various sources and are able to piece together what happenned. It seems now that "progressive" historians are more interested in finding or falsifying evidence for thier own ideology. If evidence suggest something mainstream or contrary to the Prof, then the person is usually demonized as a sell out, stupid or racist.
In summary: Whiners write History
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
GAB posted:
"This is getting me to hold the idea that the science of history is pretty much dying. There's getting to be too much ideology and agendas involved. I quite understand "Winners write history", but it use to be that historian could look at various sources and are able to piece together what happenned. It seems now that "progressive" historians are more interested in finding or falsifying evidence for thier own ideology. If evidence suggest something mainstream or contrary to the Prof, then the person is usually demonized as a sell out, stupid or racist.
In summary: Whiners write History"
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Perhaps some see what we are doing here , re-interpreting the sacred text and asking pointed questions as Whining. I tend to view it as pulling the curtain back , peeping in on the Wizard of Oz ofTraveller.
In the modern context, GAB, yer right. The Previous era in Politics has shown what can be done with "spin" control--so too has it affected the members fo that administration to get out ahead of their Presidential Library data and write "their side" before public scrutiny of public record comes to light and glaringly peers into their incompetence of their era.
"This is getting me to hold the idea that the science of history is pretty much dying. There's getting to be too much ideology and agendas involved. I quite understand "Winners write history", but it use to be that historian could look at various sources and are able to piece together what happenned. It seems now that "progressive" historians are more interested in finding or falsifying evidence for thier own ideology. If evidence suggest something mainstream or contrary to the Prof, then the person is usually demonized as a sell out, stupid or racist.
In summary: Whiners write History"
___________________________________________
Perhaps some see what we are doing here , re-interpreting the sacred text and asking pointed questions as Whining. I tend to view it as pulling the curtain back , peeping in on the Wizard of Oz ofTraveller.
In the modern context, GAB, yer right. The Previous era in Politics has shown what can be done with "spin" control--so too has it affected the members fo that administration to get out ahead of their Presidential Library data and write "their side" before public scrutiny of public record comes to light and glaringly peers into their incompetence of their era.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
On the other hand, While revisionism is pretty stupid when overboard. It appears we DO sometimes have blinders on when checking into the historical record.
For example The HMS Griffon (Gryphon?) has long been a 'great lakes mystery' supposedly dispeared on it's way to being a 'cut out the middle man' fur trading vessel. Their IS an account (apparantly oft ignored) where said 'middlemen', a tribe around the entrance to lake Huron killed the crew, burned the ship to the waterline and sank the rest. Aparantly British pride at the time was happy with "it went missing."
What I find most amusing is when some of my Six Nations (AKA descendents of the Iroquois Confederacy) cousins start going on about their great 'Tree of Peace' as the Confederacy was known.
Says a Sioux historian: "Tree of peace RIGHT. with 100 war canoes upstream just in case you tell the ambassadors inviting you to be become a branch, NO."
For example The HMS Griffon (Gryphon?) has long been a 'great lakes mystery' supposedly dispeared on it's way to being a 'cut out the middle man' fur trading vessel. Their IS an account (apparantly oft ignored) where said 'middlemen', a tribe around the entrance to lake Huron killed the crew, burned the ship to the waterline and sank the rest. Aparantly British pride at the time was happy with "it went missing."
What I find most amusing is when some of my Six Nations (AKA descendents of the Iroquois Confederacy) cousins start going on about their great 'Tree of Peace' as the Confederacy was known.
Says a Sioux historian: "Tree of peace RIGHT. with 100 war canoes upstream just in case you tell the ambassadors inviting you to be become a branch, NO."
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Not true. Alot of what we've been doing lately deals with the missing lines and blank fields in the history. Properly filling out the forms could mean the narrative was correct but incomplete.</font>[/QUOTE]_____
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Modesty prevents me from endorsing that 100%, but I'll buy that for an explanation for the nonce. I was just tryin to be fair to the "Other side"...
just this once!
