Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Yeah, Flynn, that is kinda what I was thinking. It may be I need to "talk" to the author. The problem is the name they have in the book is really perfect....
Creating alien races
- Thread starter Fritz_Brown
- Start date
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
New Info
OK. I talked to the author - Lois McMaster Bujold. Yeah, she actually e-mailed me
. It seems SJG has beat me to the punch: they are going to come out with a GURPS Vorkosigan, which will include the Quaddies from _Freefall_.
So, I will end up shelling out some money to SJG, then converting them to CT. I will post what I end up with in the fLibrary (with proper credit, of course, to SJG).
Edit:
I should have done some looking... It seems the Gurps: Vorkosigan has been due out since 2000. In 2003 they had trouble with artwork, and it is delayed - release date of ummmm January 2005. So, we will see.
OK. I talked to the author - Lois McMaster Bujold. Yeah, she actually e-mailed me
. It seems SJG has beat me to the punch: they are going to come out with a GURPS Vorkosigan, which will include the Quaddies from _Freefall_.So, I will end up shelling out some money to SJG, then converting them to CT. I will post what I end up with in the fLibrary (with proper credit, of course, to SJG).
Edit:
I should have done some looking... It seems the Gurps: Vorkosigan has been due out since 2000. In 2003 they had trouble with artwork, and it is delayed - release date of ummmm January 2005. So, we will see.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
All very goodnews! I do however note that jan 2005 has already passed us by.Originally posted by Fritz88:
New Info
OK. I talked to the author - Lois McMaster Bujold. Yeah, she actually e-mailed me
So, I will end up shelling out some money to SJG, then converting them to CT. I will post what I end up with in the fLibrary (with proper credit, of course, to SJG).
Edit:
I should have done some looking... It seems the Gurps: Vorkosigan has been due out since 2000. In 2003 they had trouble with artwork, and it is delayed - release date of ummmm January 2005. So, we will see.
:nonono:Fritz88 asked:
No.
He further asked:
Now let me get out my soapbox - suitably reinforced for one of my (ahem) girth...
Try and make you aliens... well... alien! Nothing spoils an alien more than seeing the zipper on the front of the funny suit or recognizing the exact plumbing supply that has been glued on it's nose. Unless your aliens need to be usable as player characters make 'em alien! Let's look at Our Olde Game for some examples of this.
Sadly, because they needed to be PCs, the Major Races of Traveller are little more than Humans In Funny Suits With Zippers(tm). The Aslan and Vargr might as well be human minor races, the Droyne do mix things up with their physically differentiated castes, while the K'kree and Hivers come pretty close to making the grade. However, because they can be PCs, all of them might as well be humans. It's the nature of the RPG beast and there's no way aound the problem.
Look at a couple of T20's attempts; Ursa and Sydites. Neat and nifty minor races to add to any campaign, but ultimately hobbled because they need also be available as PCs.
As Uplifted bears, the Ursa could have and should have a lifestyle very different from humanity's. In T20, they don't. In the wild, bears of both sexes are solitary accept for a brief mating season. Males have nothing to do with the rearing of young, indeed they'll kill and eat any cubs they come across. The culture of a sentient bear species would see jobs and skills determined by sex due to a great many hardwired neurological differences rather than the merely cultural strictures of Aslan society. Sadly, in T20 the Ursa live in villages with families complete mothers and fathers. The opportunity was lost. Instead of the somewhat alien Ursa the attributes of their ur-species would have produced, we instead got Bob the Bear from Accounting. Why? Because the Ursa had to be playable as PCs, that's why.
The Sydites suffered a similar fate. As hexapodal humans, they easily could have been the most alien of the Minor Human Races. The changes in skeletal structure required to support two additional arms should be enormous. The changes to the human mind to control two additonal arms should have been equally as great. Would the Sydites have extra lobes in their brain or other structures for the extra control they'll need? Are each set of arms the same or are they differentiated by task much like the Moties? If they don't have extra 'brains', can a Sydite uses all four arms at the same time without a loss of mental accuity in other areas? Sadly, T20 explored none of this and the promise of the Sydite's much changed skeletal and cerebral structures were ignored. Instead of the most 'alien' of the the Minor Human Races, we got Bob the Four-Armed Guy from Accounting. Why? Because the Sydites had to be playable as PCs, that's why.
Now, if you keep your aliens firmly in the NPC catagory you can create some aliens. Mess about with all sorts of basic desires like; How do they breed? Why do they breed? How many are needed to breed? Fiddle with stuff like that and you'll have aliens your players remember. Just keep them in the NPC ranks, otherwise you'll come up with another version of Bob the Alien from Accounting.[/i]
Be sure to let us know what you come up with!
Sincerely,
Bill
Fritz,Back to the original question
No.
He further asked:
Sure.
Now let me get out my soapbox - suitably reinforced for one of my (ahem) girth...
Try and make you aliens... well... alien! Nothing spoils an alien more than seeing the zipper on the front of the funny suit or recognizing the exact plumbing supply that has been glued on it's nose. Unless your aliens need to be usable as player characters make 'em alien! Let's look at Our Olde Game for some examples of this.
Sadly, because they needed to be PCs, the Major Races of Traveller are little more than Humans In Funny Suits With Zippers(tm). The Aslan and Vargr might as well be human minor races, the Droyne do mix things up with their physically differentiated castes, while the K'kree and Hivers come pretty close to making the grade. However, because they can be PCs, all of them might as well be humans. It's the nature of the RPG beast and there's no way aound the problem.
Look at a couple of T20's attempts; Ursa and Sydites. Neat and nifty minor races to add to any campaign, but ultimately hobbled because they need also be available as PCs.
As Uplifted bears, the Ursa could have and should have a lifestyle very different from humanity's. In T20, they don't. In the wild, bears of both sexes are solitary accept for a brief mating season. Males have nothing to do with the rearing of young, indeed they'll kill and eat any cubs they come across. The culture of a sentient bear species would see jobs and skills determined by sex due to a great many hardwired neurological differences rather than the merely cultural strictures of Aslan society. Sadly, in T20 the Ursa live in villages with families complete mothers and fathers. The opportunity was lost. Instead of the somewhat alien Ursa the attributes of their ur-species would have produced, we instead got Bob the Bear from Accounting. Why? Because the Ursa had to be playable as PCs, that's why.
The Sydites suffered a similar fate. As hexapodal humans, they easily could have been the most alien of the Minor Human Races. The changes in skeletal structure required to support two additional arms should be enormous. The changes to the human mind to control two additonal arms should have been equally as great. Would the Sydites have extra lobes in their brain or other structures for the extra control they'll need? Are each set of arms the same or are they differentiated by task much like the Moties? If they don't have extra 'brains', can a Sydite uses all four arms at the same time without a loss of mental accuity in other areas? Sadly, T20 explored none of this and the promise of the Sydite's much changed skeletal and cerebral structures were ignored. Instead of the most 'alien' of the the Minor Human Races, we got Bob the Four-Armed Guy from Accounting. Why? Because the Sydites had to be playable as PCs, that's why.
Now, if you keep your aliens firmly in the NPC catagory you can create some aliens. Mess about with all sorts of basic desires like; How do they breed? Why do they breed? How many are needed to breed? Fiddle with stuff like that and you'll have aliens your players remember. Just keep them in the NPC ranks, otherwise you'll come up with another version of Bob the Alien from Accounting.[/i]
Be sure to let us know what you come up with!
Sincerely,
Bill
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Mssr Whipsnade! Good to see you posting here again!
--of course, having been absent a lot lately for a years worth, I'm sure I have missed some of your other correspondence!
Minor disgreement with your above post--You wrote:
Try and make you aliens... well... alien! Nothing spoils an alien more than seeing the zipper on the front of the funny suit or recognizing the exact plumbing supply that has been glued on it's nose. Unless your aliens need to be usable as player characters make 'em alien! Let's look at Our Olde Game for some examples of this.
Sadly, because they needed to be PCs, the Major Races of Traveller are little more than Humans In Funny Suits With Zippers(tm). The Aslan and Vargr might as well be human minor races, the Droyne do mix things up with their physically differentiated castes, while the K'kree and Hivers come pretty close to making the grade. However, because they can be PCs, all of them might as well be humans. It's the nature of the RPG beast and there's no way aound the problem.
In the first instances, the Aslan and Vargr, you and I see eye to eye. I would wager my opinion that the K'Kree and Hivers do make the grade.
Why?
A--Neither is anthropomorphic or humanoid in shape [ala humans in furry suits ]
B--it is an alien concept of a militant herbivore, much less a sentient one, in the K'Kree's instance. Toss in their founding faith of ridding the 'Verse of G'naak [meat eaters] based on their becming the dominant species of their homeworld also makes them alien. the view their victory there in their past as a manifesto for their interstellar exapansion.
C--While personally repelled or incapable of much violence themselves, the semi-pacifistic Hivers have established a federation where in some 700 races--including humans--work together in caste-like society wherein each race seems to have its own niche/job/ place in how the Federation functions.
D--Roleplaying races. I am sure others have done so, but in the K'Kree's instance No one I have gamed with, has ever played a K'Kree. Lone K'Kree go insane without the comfort of the herd's numbers--and I've NEVER heard of a group of players playing all K'Kree! And I've been at this now nigh 25 years. I have had someone offer to play a Hiver in my TNE-campaign, but after two attempts, he made a human, [not my choice but the player's--he couldn't "get into" the being in a decent way], and I subsumed his Hiver Technician as an NPC thereafter.
I understand from your statement your opinion is they [Hiver & K'Kree]nearly make they grade because they can be used as PC races. I do concur that most "alien" of alien races ought to be NPC's in the RPG playing sense--to make them as you say... "alien", and preserve that sense of wonder/ bewilderment/ suspense that comes from top notch encounters in the game.
Agreed--the Sydite's neural differences could have been detailed more. Perhaps now that the topic is breached an enterprising writer will pick up the gauntlet on that race. Agreed, the Ursa also could have been done better also.
Still, recent T20 Gateway races like the Maskai,Akeed,Kahyri and Beree were done well, in MHO. yes, there's the game mechanics IF a GM allows one as a player--as you said, its part of the RPG system.
your fellow servant of Traveller,
--of course, having been absent a lot lately for a years worth, I'm sure I have missed some of your other correspondence!
Minor disgreement with your above post--You wrote:
Try and make you aliens... well... alien! Nothing spoils an alien more than seeing the zipper on the front of the funny suit or recognizing the exact plumbing supply that has been glued on it's nose. Unless your aliens need to be usable as player characters make 'em alien! Let's look at Our Olde Game for some examples of this.
Sadly, because they needed to be PCs, the Major Races of Traveller are little more than Humans In Funny Suits With Zippers(tm). The Aslan and Vargr might as well be human minor races, the Droyne do mix things up with their physically differentiated castes, while the K'kree and Hivers come pretty close to making the grade. However, because they can be PCs, all of them might as well be humans. It's the nature of the RPG beast and there's no way aound the problem.
In the first instances, the Aslan and Vargr, you and I see eye to eye. I would wager my opinion that the K'Kree and Hivers do make the grade.
Why?
A--Neither is anthropomorphic or humanoid in shape [ala humans in furry suits ]
B--it is an alien concept of a militant herbivore, much less a sentient one, in the K'Kree's instance. Toss in their founding faith of ridding the 'Verse of G'naak [meat eaters] based on their becming the dominant species of their homeworld also makes them alien. the view their victory there in their past as a manifesto for their interstellar exapansion.
C--While personally repelled or incapable of much violence themselves, the semi-pacifistic Hivers have established a federation where in some 700 races--including humans--work together in caste-like society wherein each race seems to have its own niche/job/ place in how the Federation functions.
D--Roleplaying races. I am sure others have done so, but in the K'Kree's instance No one I have gamed with, has ever played a K'Kree. Lone K'Kree go insane without the comfort of the herd's numbers--and I've NEVER heard of a group of players playing all K'Kree! And I've been at this now nigh 25 years. I have had someone offer to play a Hiver in my TNE-campaign, but after two attempts, he made a human, [not my choice but the player's--he couldn't "get into" the being in a decent way], and I subsumed his Hiver Technician as an NPC thereafter.
I understand from your statement your opinion is they [Hiver & K'Kree]nearly make they grade because they can be used as PC races. I do concur that most "alien" of alien races ought to be NPC's in the RPG playing sense--to make them as you say... "alien", and preserve that sense of wonder/ bewilderment/ suspense that comes from top notch encounters in the game.
Agreed--the Sydite's neural differences could have been detailed more. Perhaps now that the topic is breached an enterprising writer will pick up the gauntlet on that race. Agreed, the Ursa also could have been done better also.
Still, recent T20 Gateway races like the Maskai,Akeed,Kahyri and Beree were done well, in MHO. yes, there's the game mechanics IF a GM allows one as a player--as you said, its part of the RPG system.
your fellow servant of Traveller,
I have never played in a Traveller game (in my 20+ years of gaming) with anyone who played a K'Kree.
I have only played with 4 players who chose Hivers as charachters and they usually played up their physical differences rather than their intellectual ones.
Playing an alien as a Charachter is hard work and there are very few "Effective" tools for doing so.
Who would like to take up this Massive challenge?
I have only played with 4 players who chose Hivers as charachters and they usually played up their physical differences rather than their intellectual ones.
Playing an alien as a Charachter is hard work and there are very few "Effective" tools for doing so.
Who would like to take up this Massive challenge?
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Agreed Mr. Whipsnade. Of course, what I was going for was a gengineered human race (you know, the Quaddies). But, as you mentioned, there are some significant differences: society totally in space, totally in 0/micro-g, artificial wombs, communal child-rearing, etc.
I have permission to write something up (with proper credits and a request for a link to someplace selling Bujold's books), so I might not wait for SJG.
I am going to try to come up with some non-spacefaring sentients, as well, in the future. LORD willing and the creek don't rise, of course....
Of course, what I was going for was a gengineered human race (you know, the Quaddies). But, as you mentioned, there are some significant differences: society totally in space, totally in 0/micro-g, artificial wombs, communal child-rearing, etc.I have permission to write something up (with proper credits and a request for a link to someplace selling Bujold's books), so I might not wait for SJG.
I am going to try to come up with some non-spacefaring sentients, as well, in the future. LORD willing and the creek don't rise, of course....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
My solution to alien races IMTU is to borrow from elsewhere.
There are all the usual suspects, some with slight modification, plus the "new" races from the GT Alien races, the T4 aliens, and the ones from T2300.
There are some interesting critters adapted from Alternity too, and then there are all the Cthulhu mythos based alien races - now they are alien
There are all the usual suspects, some with slight modification, plus the "new" races from the GT Alien races, the T4 aliens, and the ones from T2300.
There are some interesting critters adapted from Alternity too, and then there are all the Cthulhu mythos based alien races - now they are alien
Of course the other point of view would be that if you have ten earth type worlds where intelligent life had evolved odds are they would be very similar indeed regardless of thier origins be they hunter, chaser, or pouncer. nothing ruins a good sci fi more than someone trying overly hard to make an alien different for the sake of the difference and not justify how the change would help the species evolutionarily speaking. sure you could create a silicon based methane breather that communicated by ultra high frequency sound and moved about like a slug... what place would such a creature have in OTU? how would you justify such a creature having a technological society even if it was intelligent?
to directly address another issue.. K'kree are highly improbable as a intelligent species and are an example of different for the sake of different. the K'kree hand is such that they would have alot of trouble with a hammer or most basic tools and it is also important to note that it was the increase of protiens in proto human diet <meat eating> that spurred our increased brain growth.
different for the sake of being different is bad.
For these reasons and many more I prefer the more humanocentric traveller universe.
Thank you Mr. Devlin. I must trot out the usual excuses - little time, horrific travel schedule, etc., plus a new one - utterly buggered computer. My seven year old machine finally bit the Big Byte and I've been taking my sweet time about getting a replacement. Going virtual does have it's virtues!
--of course, having been absent a lot lately for a years worth, I'm sure I have missed some of your other correspondence!
Please, disagree away!
I must agree. The K'Kree and Hivers are just about as alien a set of PCs as you can get. The line is fuzzy, but much beyond them and you're getting into unplayable territory.
Regarding the Sydites and Ursa, blame it on poor prose on my part. It is not that the the T20 designers and writers failed with regards to the the Sydites and Ursa, quite to contrary in fact. T20 succeeded quite handily in presenting a pair of playable alien PCs. It is not that they did not make them more alien, it is rather that they could not them more alien and still have them useful as PCs. T20 did a splendid job within the limits they were had to work with and that is as much as anyone has any right to expect.
Sincerely,
Bill
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Mr Whipsnade!
Excellent to hear back from you so quickly sir!
Perhaps it was prose. I yield the point to you there, as this 2-D format in VR does affect intonation, and various other nuances actual speech will impart--and having been guilty of that offense to other parties before myself, will cease and desist.
On a tangent, I have IMTU tried to explain why Sydites are anatomically internally [ IMTU they have two of every major organ most humanity has one of, for example lungs they have four [two chests; two hearts--one pumps, one acts as a liver for the blood; and a four lobed not a two lobed brain]different, look different to certain Medicla-professional players of mine (two) in greater detail, but my medical knowledge is scanty, so beyonf DNA and bloodtype differences, as well as certain immunities to bacteria, etc on their homeworld of Khuur that other humaniti lacks entirely, or must supplement with medecine/vaccines..as for how they came to be handwavium with the rest--"The Ancient's geneered them that way."
TY again sir!
Have a great Day!
Excellent to hear back from you so quickly sir!
Perhaps it was prose. I yield the point to you there, as this 2-D format in VR does affect intonation, and various other nuances actual speech will impart--and having been guilty of that offense to other parties before myself, will cease and desist.
On a tangent, I have IMTU tried to explain why Sydites are anatomically internally [ IMTU they have two of every major organ most humanity has one of, for example lungs they have four [two chests; two hearts--one pumps, one acts as a liver for the blood; and a four lobed not a two lobed brain]different, look different to certain Medicla-professional players of mine (two) in greater detail, but my medical knowledge is scanty, so beyonf DNA and bloodtype differences, as well as certain immunities to bacteria, etc on their homeworld of Khuur that other humaniti lacks entirely, or must supplement with medecine/vaccines..as for how they came to be handwavium with the rest--"The Ancient's geneered them that way."
TY again sir!
Have a great Day!
Jamus,
Another graduate of the Star Blecch School of Biology I see. As long as a world is 'Earth-like' - a nice, Star Blecchian, fuzzy term there, have you ever given thought to how many different terrain and climate types exist on just our ball of rock? - all intelligent species will be bipedal, interfertile, have mutually understandable languages, mutually comprehensiable thought processes, and bits of different plumbing supplies glued to their noses and foreheads. Gene Roddenberry you have a lot to answer for.
Let's test your 'similar evironments, similar results' thesis with a case just on our single Earth-like world. The pronghorn antelope and the red kangaroo occupy the same ecological niche on two different continents. They live in nearly the same enviroment, eat nearly the same vegetation, and are completely different in body form and lifestyle. I won't even bring up just what fills a squirrel's ecological niche in Australia.
It seems evolution has many more bits to work with and much time to fiddle than Paramount's SFX department.
Just as a shallow, poorly applied understanding of biological and evolutionary processes ruin 'good' Sci-Fi, wouldn't you say?
What place would it have? The planet Retinae in the Spinwards Marches actually. Of course the natives there could be truly alien because they were never meant to be used as player characters in the OTU. That happens to be the point I was trying to make.
The old 'how much brains does it take to sneak up on a leaf' argument, huh? Larry Niven brought that old chestnut up and shot it down too. Check out his Puppeteers.
As for the hoary 'meat proteins equal brain growth' nonsense, try googling brain weights for various terrestial mammals. You'll find a herbivore; the elephant, tops the list. It isn't the amount of brains; indeed Neanderthal brain cases averaged larger than those of modern humans, but rather how you use said brains. Or don't use them as the case may be.
May I suugest the book Ecco Homo for a clear concise overview of what really drove human evolution?
Agreed. Bad is bad. However, something can be different and still be good.
Traveller is all about personal choices. The Original Three LBBS didn't even mention the Imperium after all. My campaigns only occasionally featured aliens and then very rarely as PCs. That was my group's preference. Other groups have other tastes, hence all the IMTUs floating about.
Sincerely,
Bill
True. But then again, life - in a form that has little to do with Earth-based biology - might well evolve on radically different worlds. IMTU, life can be anywhere where there are both energy and reasonably complex chemical environments.
I agree, but in most cases, designers have tried to address this.
Intelligence and technological society do not have to go hand in hand. For example, while an intelligent maritime lifeform is not unreasonable, it simply lacks the means to make even the first steps of adopting tools.
While I agree that the K'Kree are an oddball in a number of ways (but then again, even improbable things happen) I do not think that the "basic tools" argument is valid here. The K'Kree certainly have developed tools that are suited for them, not for us. How they look like, you ask? I can't tell you - no surprise for something that the K'Kree race took tens of thousands of years to invent.
That might be different depending on the biological chemistry of the K'Kree.
On that basic premise I agree - but I think that even very different aliens can be reasonable if given enough thought.
Regards,
Tobias
Yes I have, and as I pointed out given ten earth type worlds you would end up with basically the same animals filling the same ecological niches.
Granted I will conced there may be some small cosmetic changes.
Im not really a gene roddenberry fan, I base most of my Traveller game on Isaac Asimov who you may note postulated a basically humanocentric universe in most of his books, namely the foundation series come to mind.
Actually they are more alike than different from a genetic stand point and probably share about 99% of the same dna make up. they both are warm blooded four legged fury mammals that give birth to live young that are suckled on milk. they both are devided into two sexes and they both live in a herd. the differences are cosmetic at best which i suppose makes a kangaroo just a pronghorn in a fuzzy suit. or visa versa.
I would just point to the above response.
and yet the species of man that evolved on the australian continent was still basically like any other man and other than some minor changes, it does jump out that here on this rock every form of intelligent life since the start of evolution as we know it has been bipedal and omnivore in nature. Animals will adapt to fit a niche and regardless of the base stock of said animal <reptile mammal avian> it will basically be similar to any other animal fitting the same niche on any other world. that is why traveller uses terms such as chaser.. a chaser is a chaser whether it is scaled or furred or has two legs or six.
seems we are makeing the same point. as an aside is Retinae a earth type world? no it is shrouded by a dense insidious atmosphere, probably amonia methane or chlorine based. could intelligent life evolve here? maybe.. should such life be usable as a player character? no.
as for K'kree out evolving the G'nak on thier home world. not likely as the k'kree herbivore niche does not require intelligence to succeed anymore than a terran cow or deer.
Manipulators help, don't they? Even so, don't porpoises have larger brains than humans? They're mammals, too... related to the cow, I believe. Mmmm, intelligent cows...
(I recall some pithy, humorous author saying that the fact that porpoises are obviously intelligent is because we've never seen them attack humans... I think the author implied that an intelligent animal will kill a human only when no other humans are watching.)
The phrase 'as we know it' is telling... we've got precious few data points for other worlds.
Jamus,
Sorry, but no. Evolution doesn't drive towards a goal, all it produces is survivors. Restart the evolutionary clock again here on Earth and you'll end up a radically different set of species. Check out Gould's Wonderful Life for a more in depth understanding. Pay especial attention to the chapters covering the Burgess Shale.
I had the pleasure of attending a 'con in Boston that the Good Doctor attended. In an authors panel he addressed Foundation's humanocentric universe. He made the choice for a few reasons; it made the series easier to write and the story arc easier to plot were the principle ones. You'll also remember that Asimov explained his humans-only universe in later books; it was the deliberate result of tampering by R. Daneel and the other human-serving robots.
Asimov wrote about aliens too, just in other series.
BTW, Traveller presents what is basically a humanocentric universe too.
Of coure they are! They evolved on the same planet after all. We'll have much more in common genetically with black-smoker tube worms than any extraterrestial life we find.
The point is that if evolution can shape two very different mammals as an antelope and kangaroo from the ultimate mammalian precursor, what will evolution do on different worlds with different starting materials?
Bullfeces. A hominid evolved in Australia would have taken a much different path than the one we stand at the end of today.
That's either a bold statement or a deliberately stupid one seeing you're basing your assertion about the possible nature of intelligent lifeforms on a sample of exactly ONE.
Form does follow function somewhat. Ponder this one - is a shark the 'same' as a dolphin? They fill somewhat similar ecological niches and have somewhat similar shapes, but are the thus the same?
Now travel to another world's biosphere. There, free-swimming marine predators will be streamlined shapes with lots of teeth, but that mean they are indistinguishable genetically from sharks and dolphins? Of course not.
Precisely. Thank you for making my point for me. Animals in Traveller are classified by their behavior and not squeezed into purely Earth-centric classifications. Using Traveller's behavior system, a shark, a dolphin, and the free-swimming carnivore on Planet X are the same even though they are very different.
With regards to the differences in design between PCs and NPCs sophonts, we are making the same point. What am I doing now is taking great exception to your muddleheaded assertion that evolution on an Earth-like will automatically produce intelligent bipedal, omnivorous, pseudo-hominids.
If your TU is filled with all-but-human sophonts because of your personal, humanocentric preferences (not to mention an extremely poor understanding of biology and an almost Lamarckian view of evolutionary processes) so be it. Other TUs, including the official TU, were peopled by creators with an imagination, a broader vision, and an inkling of just what wonders life can create.
This isn't a quesion of which of these TUs are 'better' than the others, all are equal actually. However, an basic argument can be made for which of these TUs is closer to biological reality. In that measure, your TU fails.
Despite that, your TU is still loads of fun to play in! Fun is the only yardstick any TU should be judged by.
Sincerely,
Bill
ok bill, despite your outright insulting nature i will respond and be polite in doing it.
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...it does jump out that here on this rock every form of intelligent life since the start of evolution as we know it has been bipedal and omnivore in nature.
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I disagree, I think evolution produces survivors that best fit into an ecological niche. part of that would be adapting to best take advantage of said niche and food supply thus a squirrel will remain a squirrel regardless of haow many time you reset the evolutionary clock simply because of all the mariad creatures that tried to fit that niche the squirrel did it best.
will do, however take note that i am not one to believe just anything i read.
That is given the theory that life on another planet wont share the same chemical/dna make-up as life here.
That is again if we take it on faith that the materials will be different and even if they are a animal designed to chase prey will still be very similar to a wolf in behavor be it scaled or feathered. secondly the kangaroo is the product of continental shift which separated oz and so a common rodent<possum> evolved to fit a niche. had there been no mammals on oz at the time a lizard would have filled the spot. my point is evolution moves to fill ecological niches.
Aboriginals dont seem to disimilar to the rest of us despite thousands upon thousands of years of evolution in australia.
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...it does jump out that here on this rock every form of intelligent life since the start of evolution as we know it has been bipedal and omnivore in nature.
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what number of samples are you using for your statements?
one is a killer the other a chaser or possibly pouncer. they do fill similar ecological niches though and to be honest your statement proves my view more than yours.
it does however mean that the two will share alot of the same features though, a shark on earth will be very alike in function to an aquatic killer on any other world with a similar environment.
the issue is they will not be very different, they will both be streamlined agile swimmers with a mouth full of teeth and very good senses.
Until you can show me proof that it wouldnt i see no basis for your argument. it is my belief that man is as he is because this size and form are the most capable of survival on a world such as ours.
and if yours is filled with jumbled masses of flesh that would more than likely be incapable of manipulating basic tools more power to you. I prefer my aliens to be able to function and be believable. if that is not your want than so be it.
they were also filled with creatures admitadly created for the sole purpose of being different ex. k'kree but that makes them no more advanced or creative than any other, on the contrary it makes them seem shallow and fake.
Based on what evidence exactly? your have stated nothing but your opinions as have I. the differnce is I can back mine up by looking around me at what has happened here on earth, you rely on a fantasy, to be honest i think you may as well populate your TU with D&D monsters as that is about the level of realism you are espousing.
yes it is.
(rude or not, I'm finding this conversation interesting. you have to admit mr. whipsnade that while jamus' sample space is 1, yours is 0.)
this concept of niche doesn't seem to be quite accurate. animals are what they are, and since they exist they are said to evolve to fill a "niche", the niche being conveniently defined as what that animal does. but clearly this concept is backwards as there are many niches that never get filled. consider rabbits and cane toads in australia - vast niches for them, but somehow australia's ecosystem just never in ten million years generated anything able to find these niches. one may observe any number of other examples elsewhere. clearly niche-filling is not a driving factor.
