Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Hey, Ptah, keep an eye out for any sort of info that the T5 playtest is starting back up. One of the things MWM put out previously was a race-generation system. Your knowledge could come in very handy there....
Creating alien races
- Thread starter Fritz_Brown
- Start date
Fritz88,
Sure, where would such an annoucement appear in these forums? I'm very new here and haven't really explored much.
A related question:
Is there a race generation system thread? I'd like to see those ideas for my own homebrew point based build-your-own-alien system for NPC species. Its been sitting in statis since about 1982 and these boards have got me itching to revive it.
Sure, where would such an annoucement appear in these forums? I'm very new here and haven't really explored much.
A related question:
Is there a race generation system thread? I'd like to see those ideas for my own homebrew point based build-your-own-alien system for NPC species. Its been sitting in statis since about 1982 and these boards have got me itching to revive it.
archhealer
SOC-12
After mucking about on the internet looking for it, I finally found a page we referred to a few times in my xenobiology class. Here's the link. It's a little shallow, really, but it's an interesting take on this subject.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/nonlin.htm
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/MATHME.html
These are both pretty dry, boring links. Only bother if you're really into evolutionary biology, or computer modeling.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/nonlin.htm
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/MATHME.html
These are both pretty dry, boring links. Only bother if you're really into evolutionary biology, or computer modeling.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ptah, you'll have to hope one of us announces something about it in the regular T5 forum. Alternatively, you can join ($) and become a peer or better, and watch the T5 Playtest forum. If you have no interest in any other forthcoming Traveller stuff, you might consider the cost of a peerdom ( 
) not to be worth it until T5 restarts.
) not to be worth it until T5 restarts.Greetings and salutations,
I haven't read through the five pages in this topic, but if you are looking for rules to create alien races, try Atomik Alienz or The Atomik Vortex Studio. The second link has sample pages.
I haven't read through the five pages in this topic, but if you are looking for rules to create alien races, try Atomik Alienz or The Atomik Vortex Studio. The second link has sample pages.
Fritz88, after looking at the prices of peerage it doesn't seem so bad. I'll keep my eye-out on the T5 forum in the meantime.
Marquis Deadlock, thanks for the link, will check it out.
I just read most of the first 5 pages of posts. I agree about the limitations on alien species that can arise when they are intended to be PCs.
This is one reason I've tried to develop a point based build system for aliens, to allow for unquie designs that are "balanced" through the point system. This system is rule system dependnet, but one aspect that might be of general interest is a simple classification scheme for how aliens think.
Here it is. Some of the non-human ways of thinking I have a hard time describing being a human. It's my first shot at trying to capture alien thinking.
This idea struck me about 5-8 years ago when I was reading both C.J. Cherryl's Chanur novels, White's Sector General novels and investigating the Myers-Briggs personality profile scheme. Cherryl had the matrix brain Knnn (I beleive without pulling down the book) and White had the relevant physiological aspects of alien life forms classifed with letter codes, Myer-Briggs looks at human personality with four binary concepts, the introvert/extrovet, sensing/intuitve, etc. concepts.
My cognitive classification: Cognition is described by 4 areas: (1) Sense of Identity; (2)Thought Process; (3) Event Relational Process; (4) Temporal Perception. The non-human ways will appear non-sensical and illogical to humans (that's why they are alien) but strangely these alien cultures can still build starships, etc.
Generally, species which are the same in all 4 areas of cognition will be able to at least communicate effectively. Although cultural differences can lead to misunderstandings (see Sol's history), their brains basically work the same.
Aliens which differ in 1 area can be communicated with but with great difficulty even if the two species share a common goal and a desire to work together.
Species with two or more code differences find it near impossible to communicate or work with each other. The other species' actions appear chaotic, insane and are completely unpredicatbale to the other. In this situation, an intepreter species is needed to bridge the gap. I give some examples below after the classifications.
Alien Cognition Classifications
Sense of Identity - individual (I), collective (H), cooperative (C), emergent (E)
Thought Process - linear (L), matrix (M)
Event Relational Process -sequential (S), reflexive (R)
Temporal Perception -uniform (U), variable (V)
EXAMPLES:
Identity
I=humans, H=collective: many individual thougths form one group will/mind, there are no individuals (e.g., borg STNG); C=cooperative: individual minds can access a group mind but individuals still retain individual will/mind; E=emergent:individauls have no sapience but in groups a form of sapience emerges, also refered to as a hive-mind.
Thought Process
L=linear: individual concepts can stand alone, binary logic possible, concept of independent variables possible; M=matrix: no concept stands alone, do not readily grasp binary logic or concept of independent variables, grasp problems composed of multiply dependent variables readily.
Event Relational Process
S=sequential: effect follows cause, effects are the maifestation of cause, predictive theories favored; R=reflexive: cause is the manifestation of effects, theories often appear ad hoc or by fiat to S (sequential thinkers) but such species appear to more readily grasp faster than light travel concepts.
Temporal Perception
U=uniform: time percieved as proceeding in a linear fashion at a relatively constant rate; V=varaible: one of the hardest concepts for U (uniform) species to grasp, V species have a hard time grasping beginnings and ends as these concepts are understood by U species.
For example, Humans are ILSU as are almost all species in sci-fi, the Borg HLSU, the Knnn IMSU, a "hive" species might be EMSU.
Accordingly, humans may find it near impossible to understand the "hive" but can communicate with the Knnn, albiet with difficulty. The Knnn have a hard time with humans and the "hive" but can communicate with both. The Knnn can thus serve as go betweens or interpreters for the Human and "hive" species.
All PC species should be ILSU in my opinion, this is not a system primarily for PC development but for universe development.
For example, this cognitive system can be used to "explain" why aliens act in unexplainable and to humans irrational ways. The GM need not even need to explain, how can a ILSU do so. One role-playing aspect is through using an NPC interpretive species and being aware that aliens are not just beings with more or less limbs who breathe different air. Thus, some NPC species may become a valuable interpreter/diplomatic species even if they have nothing else going for them.
Just some thoughts. Constructive comments welcome.
Marquis Deadlock, thanks for the link, will check it out.
I just read most of the first 5 pages of posts. I agree about the limitations on alien species that can arise when they are intended to be PCs.
This is one reason I've tried to develop a point based build system for aliens, to allow for unquie designs that are "balanced" through the point system. This system is rule system dependnet, but one aspect that might be of general interest is a simple classification scheme for how aliens think.
Here it is. Some of the non-human ways of thinking I have a hard time describing being a human. It's my first shot at trying to capture alien thinking.
This idea struck me about 5-8 years ago when I was reading both C.J. Cherryl's Chanur novels, White's Sector General novels and investigating the Myers-Briggs personality profile scheme. Cherryl had the matrix brain Knnn (I beleive without pulling down the book) and White had the relevant physiological aspects of alien life forms classifed with letter codes, Myer-Briggs looks at human personality with four binary concepts, the introvert/extrovet, sensing/intuitve, etc. concepts.
My cognitive classification: Cognition is described by 4 areas: (1) Sense of Identity; (2)Thought Process; (3) Event Relational Process; (4) Temporal Perception. The non-human ways will appear non-sensical and illogical to humans (that's why they are alien) but strangely these alien cultures can still build starships, etc.
Generally, species which are the same in all 4 areas of cognition will be able to at least communicate effectively. Although cultural differences can lead to misunderstandings (see Sol's history), their brains basically work the same.
Aliens which differ in 1 area can be communicated with but with great difficulty even if the two species share a common goal and a desire to work together.
Species with two or more code differences find it near impossible to communicate or work with each other. The other species' actions appear chaotic, insane and are completely unpredicatbale to the other. In this situation, an intepreter species is needed to bridge the gap. I give some examples below after the classifications.
Alien Cognition Classifications
Sense of Identity - individual (I), collective (H), cooperative (C), emergent (E)
Thought Process - linear (L), matrix (M)
Event Relational Process -sequential (S), reflexive (R)
Temporal Perception -uniform (U), variable (V)
EXAMPLES:
Identity
I=humans, H=collective: many individual thougths form one group will/mind, there are no individuals (e.g., borg STNG); C=cooperative: individual minds can access a group mind but individuals still retain individual will/mind; E=emergent:individauls have no sapience but in groups a form of sapience emerges, also refered to as a hive-mind.
Thought Process
L=linear: individual concepts can stand alone, binary logic possible, concept of independent variables possible; M=matrix: no concept stands alone, do not readily grasp binary logic or concept of independent variables, grasp problems composed of multiply dependent variables readily.
Event Relational Process
S=sequential: effect follows cause, effects are the maifestation of cause, predictive theories favored; R=reflexive: cause is the manifestation of effects, theories often appear ad hoc or by fiat to S (sequential thinkers) but such species appear to more readily grasp faster than light travel concepts.
Temporal Perception
U=uniform: time percieved as proceeding in a linear fashion at a relatively constant rate; V=varaible: one of the hardest concepts for U (uniform) species to grasp, V species have a hard time grasping beginnings and ends as these concepts are understood by U species.
For example, Humans are ILSU as are almost all species in sci-fi, the Borg HLSU, the Knnn IMSU, a "hive" species might be EMSU.
Accordingly, humans may find it near impossible to understand the "hive" but can communicate with the Knnn, albiet with difficulty. The Knnn have a hard time with humans and the "hive" but can communicate with both. The Knnn can thus serve as go betweens or interpreters for the Human and "hive" species.
All PC species should be ILSU in my opinion, this is not a system primarily for PC development but for universe development.
For example, this cognitive system can be used to "explain" why aliens act in unexplainable and to humans irrational ways. The GM need not even need to explain, how can a ILSU do so. One role-playing aspect is through using an NPC interpretive species and being aware that aliens are not just beings with more or less limbs who breathe different air. Thus, some NPC species may become a valuable interpreter/diplomatic species even if they have nothing else going for them.
Just some thoughts. Constructive comments welcome.
Marquis Deadlock,
The Atomik Alienz book looked very nice. Decided to get it. Didn't know people still made supplements that can be applied to any system.
Really look forward to it. From the pages I could see it reminded me of a PBM game (yep PBM not PREM) from the early 80's StarMaster I beleive it was called. Ever hear of it? I had the little blue soft cover rule book once but foolishly lost it decades ago.
The Atomik Alienz book looked very nice. Decided to get it. Didn't know people still made supplements that can be applied to any system.
Really look forward to it. From the pages I could see it reminded me of a PBM game (yep PBM not PREM) from the early 80's StarMaster I beleive it was called. Ever hear of it? I had the little blue soft cover rule book once but foolishly lost it decades ago.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
Yes, thanks for posting that link Marquis.
The Atomic Alienz document seems like a very well-thought out system of creating aliens for ANY SciFi game. I'm tempted to buy it now...
The Atomic Alienz document seems like a very well-thought out system of creating aliens for ANY SciFi game. I'm tempted to buy it now...
Maladominus,
mini-review...The introductory parts of Atomik Alienz regarding alien chemistry are a little preachy given these guys are recycling the discussions found in their sources. I've seen far better dicussions on various chemistry sites. At first I thought this would limit the construction options, but luckily that was not the case. They really do open it up to constructing anything from an Excaliburan (those rock guys on ST) to the the Soft Ones (Isaac Asimov). I'd view this book as a great base that could be used pretty much as is or readily modified to suit your needs. At the very least, it's a great resource and has good explainations of the various body systems. They don't give you a psionics system but they do describe how you might value it, or grossly undervalue it in my humble opinion.
I also have to say they do a nice job of making it systemless but readily adaptable.
This was just the thing to get me to finish what I'd started years ago; and for less than $6 well worth it. Amazingly a large percentage of the Atomik Alienz approach is the same as what I've drafted, a good case for convergent evolution, or maybe we were both inspired by StarMaster. My suspicion is it won't be anything you haven't seen if you've seen these kind of build systems before. Nevertheless it is all in one place.
mini-review...The introductory parts of Atomik Alienz regarding alien chemistry are a little preachy given these guys are recycling the discussions found in their sources. I've seen far better dicussions on various chemistry sites. At first I thought this would limit the construction options, but luckily that was not the case. They really do open it up to constructing anything from an Excaliburan (those rock guys on ST) to the the Soft Ones (Isaac Asimov). I'd view this book as a great base that could be used pretty much as is or readily modified to suit your needs. At the very least, it's a great resource and has good explainations of the various body systems. They don't give you a psionics system but they do describe how you might value it, or grossly undervalue it in my humble opinion.
I also have to say they do a nice job of making it systemless but readily adaptable.
This was just the thing to get me to finish what I'd started years ago; and for less than $6 well worth it. Amazingly a large percentage of the Atomik Alienz approach is the same as what I've drafted, a good case for convergent evolution, or maybe we were both inspired by StarMaster.
My suspicion is it won't be anything you haven't seen if you've seen these kind of build systems before. Nevertheless it is all in one place.Greetings and salutations,
I am glad I could contribute to thy quest for creating aliens. If you think that the Atomik Alienz is worth buying, then you might wish to check out Atomik's other products. I have Atomik CyberTek, but I have not fooled around with it yet.
Kurega Gikur, it is listed as $5.95 on Atomik Vortex's & RPGNow's web sites. Please tell me you bought something else with it.
I am glad I could contribute to thy quest for creating aliens. If you think that the Atomik Alienz is worth buying, then you might wish to check out Atomik's other products. I have Atomik CyberTek, but I have not fooled around with it yet.
Kurega Gikur, it is listed as $5.95 on Atomik Vortex's & RPGNow's web sites. Please tell me you bought something else with it.
Marquis Deadlock,
Maybe it was Spacemaster. Part of my difficulty in finding this piece of nostalgia is remembering its name 20+ years later. Was Spacemaster a PBM game circa 1981-1984? I recall you got a little blue soft cover book (about the size of the LBBs) and two free turns. You picked/designed a homeworld and built your species using a point system, then sent this in before your first turn.
Maybe it was Spacemaster. Part of my difficulty in finding this piece of nostalgia is remembering its name 20+ years later. Was Spacemaster a PBM game circa 1981-1984? I recall you got a little blue soft cover book (about the size of the LBBs) and two free turns. You picked/designed a homeworld and built your species using a point system, then sent this in before your first turn.
Star Venture, Starlord, & Starweb, were all PBMs, or PBEMs, back in the day.
Starmaster was a sort of arcade game, and
Spacemaster, by Iron Crown Enterprises (Who also did Rolemaster, (along with MERP) was an RPG.
Starweb was heavily advertised, all over the place, in gaming magazines.
Star Venture, and Starlord, less so.
I haven't played any of them, I ran my own (for less than 3 months, doing hand turns.)
Likely, old copies of PBEM Flagship Magazine might have ads. I'll look in my archives in the back closet.
Starmaster was a sort of arcade game, and
Spacemaster, by Iron Crown Enterprises (Who also did Rolemaster, (along with MERP) was an RPG.
Starweb was heavily advertised, all over the place, in gaming magazines.
Star Venture, and Starlord, less so.
I haven't played any of them, I ran my own (for less than 3 months, doing hand turns.)
Likely, old copies of PBEM Flagship Magazine might have ads. I'll look in my archives in the back closet.
Another one;
Starfall:
A long term strategy game, from 40 to 100 turns. build and design a variety of different vessels., train name level commanders, and use espionage operations., striving against the Jorathi Imperium, and other players for control of the galaxy.
Additionally,
Stellar Warlords:
Computer moderated, seek out new races, and planets and explore an open ended galaxy.
Starfall:
A long term strategy game, from 40 to 100 turns. build and design a variety of different vessels., train name level commanders, and use espionage operations., striving against the Jorathi Imperium, and other players for control of the galaxy.
Additionally,
Stellar Warlords:
Computer moderated, seek out new races, and planets and explore an open ended galaxy.
A little internet searching over lunch and the answer is....
Starmaster a PBM game from Schubel & Son who also did Tribes of Crane Thanks to an Issue of Flying Buffalo Quarterly #79 from 1999.
It seems one of the two GMs for Schubel & Son posts at Rolling Thunder Game's forum.
After a near 10 year break from the internet (if there was such a thing 10 years ago) the content has just exploded. I'm always amazed at what I find if I look. Such as CotI for instance.
Merxiless, thanks for all the info.
I also come across Starmaster as an arcade game. I think I actually have a copy of Starfall if it's a board game. Starweb appears to be a Flying Buffalo product.
Thanks for the input everyone.
Starmaster a PBM game from Schubel & Son who also did Tribes of Crane Thanks to an Issue of Flying Buffalo Quarterly #79 from 1999.
It seems one of the two GMs for Schubel & Son posts at Rolling Thunder Game's forum.
After a near 10 year break from the internet (if there was such a thing 10 years ago) the content has just exploded. I'm always amazed at what I find if I look. Such as CotI for instance.
Merxiless, thanks for all the info.
I also come across Starmaster as an arcade game. I think I actually have a copy of Starfall if it's a board game. Starweb appears to be a Flying Buffalo product.
Thanks for the input everyone.
