CT Chargen attempts thoughts

[pendragonman]

Ok, as both of you seems to have taken my points differently then they were intended to be, I believe I failed to communicate my thought here.

I will rethink how I want to communicate my thoughts better and maybe try again if it seems relevent at that point.

Sorry

Daniel

Don't worry about it. Most posts here get taken off on at least two different tangents. The trick is to try to figure out the tangent planes before you post so you can clarify along the way.

 

[atpollard]

First, S4:
I love your meta-game character generation idea. I’d gladly participate any time.

Second:
… but, I have an idea for a character that I’d like to share.
Bryan is a starship navigator with Nav-2 (or Nav-3) and one or two other skills (the exact skill does not matter and could easily be a skill-0).

Bryan is the son of a career officer on a Merchant LASH ship (probably a bulk cargo transport) and was born and raised on-board the ship. He learned mathematics by plotting courses on the Nav Comp, passed the Navigation Certification Exam at 14 (like a Belter) and has now served two terms as Navigator on the ship his father captained. He has literally spent more time in Jump space that he has in Real space. While some people go mad staring into jump space, he likes to meditate while watching the color patterns. Bryan likes to stand barefoot on the inside surface of the outer hull (away from the artificial Grav Plates and Inertial Compensators) while in Jump space and feel the changing gravitational pulls of this alternate dimension.

Bryan has a hippie-like mentality that overlays a quasi-mystic view to the physics of navigation. The worlds and gravity wells ‘call to him’ and he can ‘feel them’. He lives to plot courses and a starship IS his homeworld. Bryan can ‘feeling the waves’ on the hull and uses gravity slings/breaking to optimize a ship’s course. He can even alter the time in jump space by making manual micro-adjustments in the jump grid while in jump space. (He reduces travel times by 5% per skill level) Bryan’s other skill(s) represent a hobby like interest – he has a lot of free time to pursue interests.

His father is retired. At age 22, Bryan is stranded in a Starport with Nav-2 certification (and is currently working on the Nav-3 skill self improvement) and wants nothing out of life except to find a ship so he can get back to navigating and jump space.

THE POINT OF THIS CHARACTER IS TO DEMONSTRATE:
This character is not a munchkin superhero.
This character is not ‘another ace pilot’ (ie. stereotypical).
This character is not boring.
This character is not possible under the random character generation rules (including your meta-game).
Sometimes, like this case, the rules can get in the way and the Referee should be willing to bend them.

Would YOU allow Bryan in your campaign?

 

[casquilho]

Don't worry about it. Most posts here get taken off on at least two different tangents. The trick is to try to figure out the tangent planes before you post so you can clarify along the way.

Oh I am not "Upset". They were not mean in their response, I just realised my point was not communicated the same way I meant it to be. The medium itself (forum boards) make it hard at times to have clear communications. I have found that, at times, it is better to just pull back and re-think how you want to say something then to charge right in and try to "make it clear".

Daniel

 

[Supplement Four]

Would YOU allow Bryan in your campaign?

I wouldn't, no. Not as a PC. (I'd definitely use him as a NPC.)

The reason is that I don't allow anybody to build characters when we play Traveller (we certainly do with other games--the Bond game I'm starting uses all point-build characters, but that's THAT game).

I always run the meta-game (after I discovered it, I never went back--I've had so many good experiences running chargen like that).

So, if a player came to me with Bryan's fully developed background, I'd say, "Good job! Excellent! I like what you've done! But...your character is only 18 years old. He's just now striking out as an adult. I suggested you use your background as a general map to guide you through chargen as we meta-game it...or, maybe you should think of Bryan as an NPC family member or close friend. But, right now, you're 18 years old, and you're from the asteroid colony in the Patinir system.

"Do you want to try to enlist with the Merchants? Or, if you want to try to create Bryan's background, do you want to attempt to enlist as an Other?

"Roll your dice. Make your decisions. Let's live with this character and see how he turns out."

 

[casquilho]

I happen to think S4's way of "playing" out the character would help a lot to create characters that are 3D and richer in background. I could see a Bryan-like character being made with S4's way of doing things.

Daniel

 

[jawillroy]

I might let the character come in at Nav-1 and Vacc-1.

The second I heard about the kid taking off his boots on the hull of the ship in jump space, I'd have you starting up a new character so fast the paper'd start burning. Jumpspace it may be, but outside the ship is still screaming empty void, and you take your suit off out there, son, you're DAID. (IMTU. YMMV.)

 

[atpollard]

The second I heard about the kid taking off his boots on the hull of the ship in jump space, I'd have you starting up a new character so fast the paper'd start burning. Jumpspace it may be, but outside the ship is still screaming empty void, and you take your suit off out there, son, you're DAID. (IMTU. YMMV.)

Just to clarify, the Ship is in jumpspace and the character is Inside the ship standing on the inner surface of the hull. Only a few cm of crystaliron hull stand between him and jumpspace.

 

[atpollard]

I wouldn't, no. "Do you want to try to enlist with the Merchants?"

Ho, humm. Here comes another cookie cutter merchant.

Or, if you want to try to create Bryan's background, do you want to attempt to enlist as an Other?

'Navigation' is not a skill available to "Other". He would be more likely to end up with either a 'vice' skill (Bribery, Forgery, Gambling, Streetwise) or a 'Combat' skill (Brawling, Blade, Gun). There are few starship related skills in 'Other'. One Term as a Belter and a 4-year sabatical to learn Navigation would get the skills needed, but does not really come close to the backstory to support his proposed personality.

 

[Supplement Four]

'Navigation' is not a skill available to "Other".

But, the rules do support the GM fiddling with the generic skill tables. There's several examples where a GM could replace one skill on the Other tables for Navigation.

And, the rules support the GM awarding the character with a zero level skill (in this case, it would be Navigation-0) when warranted. That's listed in the LBBs.

Plus, it's not outside the scope of the LBB chargen rules to add another table--a Homeworld table, or a Background skills table--for the player to choose from during chargen. This is where Navigation could be listed as well.



I believe that a good CT GM shouldn't always use the chargen tables as-is. They're a generic, one-size-fits-all example that can be used in most cases.

GMs should take a good, hard look at the character's homeworld and then adjust the generic tables...customize them to the homeworld, using the generic tabels as a base to start from.

Your Bryan character could be generated that way--if the GM takes that initiative.

 

[Ishmael]

Supplement 4:

I looked at the link you gave me....its wonderful and better than my idea.
thanks
you certainly have kudos from me.
Excellent character/skill stuff.

 

[Supplement Four]

Supplement 4:

I looked at the link you gave me....its wonderful and better than my idea.
thanks
you certainly have kudos from me.
Excellent character/skill stuff.

Thanks, but pick and choose. I wouldn't recommend all of the stuff I wrote in those posts. Some of it is real good, and I think some of will unbalance a game if not watched closely.

It's a lot of food for thought, though!

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Would YOU allow Bryan in your campaign?

Absolutely! However, we would go through the rolls (that would fill out those other skills, and - therefore - tell us more about the character), and I would fudge where I thought necessary to keep things in the scope of the idea. I would go ahead and start him at 14 for his first term, then watch where the rolls went. One concession that I do sometimes is to force the skill roll, then let the player decide on the table (so, he might have a choice of +1 INT, Navigation, Brawling, or Medical) - it forces some randomness, but allows some conformance to the character idea.

The medium itself (forum boards) make it hard at times to have clear communications.

Especially when you're only allowed 4 emoticons....

And, yes, if the player really didn't like the character, I would allow the player to re-roll. I might even let them start with the same stats. I would insist on a different name, though (if the PC had been named).

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

"Would YOU allow Bryan in your campaign?"

Hell yes!!!
With that backstory, you have a great hook for the player to always fall back on, and the GM can do something devious with it...

(what comes to mind is that he starts acting really freaky--either his weird explanation is really true, as in a psionic special talent, or he is going schizophrenic and is about to snap, then open the cargo bay doors in jumpspace to let his 'friends' inside...)

"Oh, players do have some control over the directions their characters take. But, it's more like real life. You attempt a direction (by picking a career and skills tables), but life (the die roll) sometimes gets in the way (it also sometimes unexpectedly helps you when the die shows that cross-training into the commandos or a promotion you weren't expecting)."

That's the advantage of CT. It forces you to think about the character's backstory before you begin adventuring. A perfect example of this is my post... http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=15434

(Even though I seriously 'cheated' it was worth it for a great character...)

During chargen, I use a semi-random method of assigning skills, which sometimes gives me a free choice. I also keep track of skills received term by term so I can figure out what the character was up to.

As an example, here's the term skills received by Erasmus Johnson...and my interpretation.

T1) +1 Educ, Jack-O-T (initiation tour)
T2) died (changed to wound)--Jack-O-Trades, Jack-O-Trades...survived pirate attack
T3) died--Navigation, Jack-O-Trades (survived asteroid collision)
T4) died--Jack-O-Trades, +1 Intel survived magnetic storm)
T5) +1 Educ, Gun Cbt (escaped hostile aliens)
T6) wounded--Navigation, Jack-O-Trades (survived nebula flare)
T7) died--Navigation, Jack-O-Trades (survived misjump)

If a character rolls the exact survival number, he is woulded. If he uses the +2DM to make it, it is a near miss.

Throw 3D (2 same color) to determine which chart to pick skills from. Single die determines table, a double on 2D to select skill. If table die is a 5 or 6, choose table.

"Traveller SOMETIMES gives me a real human being to play. But S4, it also sometimes gives me a flat, set of random drek that does not make sense what so ever."

That's when you save him for an NPC, along with the ones who died in chargen...

 

[Kyle Aaron]

But if one of my players played a marine non-pilot for a year because it was what came up and still wanted to play a pilot, I think I could find it in my mind to allow him to just call Navy and his first skill be Pilot. To be so uptight that I made him play for another game would be just dumb.

Well, on p8 of LBB1 it says, "Should a player truly consider the character to be so poor as to be beyond help, the low survival rate of the Scout Serivce may make it the best choice."

In any random-roll character generation system, I've always said, "You can always declare the character was so weak they were stillborn, or died somewhere along the way after a stomach bug from some bad takeout. But you have to finish the whole character generation process first."

A lot of players after rolling up some bad stats will hate the character, but once they get through and add some skills and think of one or two stories of the character's past, they get attached and want to keep their poor weakling, stupid, low social-class guy...

 

[casquilho]

Well, on p8 of LBB1 it says, "Should a player truly consider the character to be so poor as to be beyond help, the low survival rate of the Scout Serivce may make it the best choice."

In any random-roll character generation system, I've always said, "You can always declare the character was so weak they were stillborn, or died somewhere along the way after a stomach bug from some bad takeout. But you have to finish the whole character generation process first."

A lot of players after rolling up some bad stats will hate the character, but once they get through and add some skills and think of one or two stories of the character's past, they get attached and want to keep their poor weakling, stupid, low social-class guy...

I was not refering to low stats. If a player has cooperated by playing what the dice gave him for a year, as stated in the original post I was talking about, then when we started new characters I would allow them to at least build Pilot-1 into his next character. I did not say I would then ignore the rest of the CharGen process after that.

I believe, like many others, that for the most part you should use the CharGen process as it was written including the chance to die in the process. But once in a while it might be the right thing to allow some "fudging" if it is not only trying to "Min-Max" but because of a real desire to play a particulalar type of character.

Daniel

 

[erisred]

Ho, humm. Here comes another cookie cutter merchant.

Personally, I've *longed* to play a cookie cutter merchant for ages. I run Traveller games, but I never get to play, and I've always wanted to play a merchant, in a real game (not just solo), traveling from system to system, buying and selling goods...<sigh>...

'Navigation' is not a skill available to "Other". He would be more likely to end up with either a 'vice' skill (Bribery, Forgery, Gambling, Streetwise) or a 'Combat' skill (Brawling, Blade, Gun). There are few starship related skills in 'Other'. One Term as a Belter and a 4-year sabatical to learn Navigation would get the skills needed, but does not really come close to the backstory to support his proposed personality.

You know, S4's play through CharGen is something I've done several times...it's also what I do whenever I "solo" Traveller...but I add a couple of twists.

First, I award the players a few "brownie points" to use during Character Creation...2d6 just like a stat, call it Luck. They can use their 'precious' brownie points to buy a skill. If the skill is on one of their career's tables they roll and spend 1 point to move up or down 1 place on the table...ex. Joe wants the skill at 4, he rolls a 6 (or 2) so he has to spend 2 of his points to get that skill. If the skill is on a table *not* in his career they spend 3 points just to get to roll on that table then more to get the skill they want. Like S4, this is best done through role playing where the Ref and Player (or if possible *all* the players) role play out *how* the PC got that skill. I've been known to let these Luck points on other rolls, but they have to have good role playing reasons to convince me. Some players spend these Luck points right away, they don't carry over into the game, so they don't lose them. Some horde them hoping to use them on Mustering out tables or to make sure they get that last skill point or promotion. Some players don't really use them at all, preferring to take what the dice give them.

Second, after the first or second session FTF...or after a few days of play in a PBEM...I let the players swap out a skill, or two, if they feel like they need to. Occasionally, someone will say something like, "I just don't feel like Joe wouldn't have picked up that skill in the 12 years he was in the Army, so can I swap a point in this for a point in that?" My view is the Ref has to be tough, but fair, so I'll entertain such requests...but we have to work out why, and how, and often I'll impose a penalty..."Yeah, you can have 1 point in X, but you have to give up 2 points from somewhere else.", or something like that.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

A whole bunch of good stuff

Yep. Exactly like that!

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Here's my go at rolling up and rationalising, using LBB1.

Jules Garcon
retired merchant, 4th officer, 4 terms, 34yo
lazy, conniving coward, seen everywhere about the ship
788947
Blade Combat-1, Bribery-1, Electronics-1, Gun Combat-1, Jack o' Trades-2, Steward-1
Gear: Blade, low passage, 1,000Cr
________________________

Stat rolls: 687847
Jules Garcon comes from a nameless backwater world, and while he was smart, he wasn't very well-educated or strong. How can a young man of wits make his way in the universe... without too much personal danger? He joins the merchant service, of course!

Merchant enlistment: 7+, DM+2 for Int6+, rolled 5+2=7... in!
Jules sat the entrance exam and only just scraped by.

First term, Bld Cmbt+1, Gun Cmbt+1
Jules was unhappy to find himself assigned to guard duty. This didn't seem very safe, if he wanted to fight he'd have joined the Army! So he quickly applied for a commission.

Commission, roll required 4+, DM+1 for Int6+, rolled 7+1 =8... in!
With some hard study and a bit of instinct in the multiple choice questions, Jules passed the commission exam fairly easily. He didn't know it, but his guard commander recommended him, not wanting the not too strong Jules in his guard, especially since Jules' poor Education made him a terrible conversationist, he kept babbling about stuff... Jules was thus commissioned as a 4th Officer.

Electronics+1... for his officer's specialty, Jules was sent to an electronics course.

Promotion, roll required 10+... rolled 3... Towards the end of his first term, excited by no longer having to pull guard duty and having many idle hours, and hoping for yet more idle hours and distance from danger, and with vacancies opening up with the resignation of several key officers, he applied for a promotion. The Captain was reported to have laughed all the way to dinnertime.

Survival, roll required 5+, DM+1 if Int7+, rolled 5+1=6... just survived! With just a month to go in his last term, Jules was in the airlock adjusting his suit and hose when a clumsy underling hit the "Evacuate" button early. Tumbling out into the vacuum of space Jules was forced to slap his gloved hand over the unplugged hose hole. While he made a mess in his vac suit and swore never to go into vacuum again, he survived.

With this experience he tried to leave the Merchant service. Of course he had to apply to leave.

Second term, relist roll 4+, rolled 12.... His Captain was retiring and used his final orders to get back at everyone who'd ever annoyed him. Jules was among those people, and was reenlisted for a four-year term.

+1 End, Jack o' Trades+1. With so many officers gone, Jules was forced to spend a lot of time running around the ship doing jobs he didn't really know how to do.

Promotion, roll required 10+... rolled 9. Given that he was actually doing the job of higher ranks, Jules thought he'd easily be promoted this time. But nope. Despite all his (reluctant) hard work, he just couldn't overcome the dislike Captains always seemed to have for him.

Survival, roll required 5+, DM+1 if Int7+, rolled 8. No particular lethal dangers threatened him in his second term.

Third term, relist roll 4+, rolled 8.... A week before his term was up he got drunk on moonshine and filed his application for reenlistment. He'd totally forgotten it in the drunken haze and so was rather surprised when a week later, standing at the airlock with his duffel bag, the officer of the watch wouldn't let him go.

+1 Strength, Jack o' Trades+1. Now he found his work extended to the cargo bay, where budget cuts on equipment and maintenance time meant that a lot of cargo had to be moved manually. He found himself doing even more work he had no real idea about.

Promotion, roll required 10+... rolled 3. 4th Officer Jule Garcon couldn't understand why having the Executive Officer come across him in the cargo bay in a hammock with a fifth of Vilani bourbon and a copy of Vargr Babes should hurt his career prospects, but it did.

Survival, roll required 5+, DM+1 if Int7+, rolled 6+1=7. Again nothing dangerous happened to him this term.

Fourth term, relist roll 4+... rolled 12. Annoyed at his lack of prospects in the Merchant service after a decade in the same rank, he tried to leave again. But he wasn't the only one, and others knew who to slip a few hundred credits to, and he didn't, so that was that, a fourth term was his whether he liked it or not.

Bribery+1, Steward+1. He resolved to ensure that he wouldn't be caught out by better-connected people again, and began by bribing petty bureaucrats on backwater moons - even when he didn't need to, just for the practice. Still, he found himself made Purser, looking after paying passengers.

Promotion, roll required 10+... rolled 4. By this stage he was just putting the application in because his fellow officers - ten years younger than him - were asking him if he was doing it. He didn't think it was really possible to distinguish himself dealing with passengers complaining about getting synthbeef stew for the fourth day running.

Survival, roll required 5+, DM+1 if Int7+, rolled 8+1=9. He definitely avoided anything dangerous in his fourth term.

Luckily, he was not wanted for a fifth term, now being too obscure to have offended anyone.

Mustering Out, Blade, Low Passage, 1,000Cr, +1 Intelligence
He hoped to get some useful benefits from mustering out. He was generously allowed to keep his officer's ceremonial sword, a tinky piece of rattling metal engraved with his date of commission.
On asking the quartermaster for a Merchant's pass for travel, he was given a Low Passage voucher.
Unfortunately his pension savings had been depleted by a corrupt official, leaving him with only his last month's pay.
He had at least learned from his many experiences.
___________________________________

Now, when I rolled up the stats he didn't look very impressive. But as I went through his terms and thought about what his story might be, I grew to like Jules Garcon.

I hope my players will feel the same way

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Nice write-up, Kyle! Personally, I hate PCs with all their stats right in the meat of the bell-curve. But, you made him work out pretty well. Good job.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Well, within the chunky part of the bell curve, sure. But if you're using the UGM's side option of "roll under attribute to get DM+1", then Stat-7 gets you DM+1 58% of the time, while Stat-8 gets you it 72% of the time. Basically an extra one in seven dice rolls you'll get a bonus on. That's not nothing - so his Dex-8 and End-8 will give him some advantage.

And the Int-9 (83%) and Edu-4 (17%) are going to have a distinct and noticeable effect on his life, both career-wise and adventure.

As I see it, as a player you can't just wait for chances for your character to shine, you have to make them happen. Let's look at him again,

788947
Blade Combat-1, Bribery-1, Electronics-1, Gun Combat-1, Jack o' Trades-2, Steward-1

Looking at that, Jules is going to do reasonably well in melee (Dex-8 & Blade-1, plus End-8 letting him make slightly more blows than average) and fire (Dex-8 & Gun-1). He can make himself useful in acquiring supplies (Int-9 & Bribery-1 & JOT-2) and then making use of everyday supplies for the comfort of his fellow crew (Steward-1).

Where he'll really shine is as an all-rounder, being able to turn his hand to just about anything and figure it out (Int-9 & JOT-2, normal difficulty of 8+, effective skill-0 in everything, usually complemented by Int-9 with 83% chance of DM+1, makes roll effectively 7+ or 58%). He's never going to stand out as the best in anything, but he's going to be a very useful crewmen to have on board.

Now, if only he weren't a lazy coward...