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Deckplan Challenge - Contest

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:

Thanks Kaladorn for bringing an oversight to my attention. All deckplan submissions should be in gif, jpeg, or png format. The idea is to have your submission viewable by all.
GIF, JPEG, and PNG formats are viewable by all. There may be a bit of a practical matter of image size vs. scale though for certain designs: if the ship has relatively few decks for its size, either the image size is going to be quite large (thousands upon thousands of pixels in at least one dimension) or the scale is going to be really small (really small grids, limiting discernable detail).

A PDF format in addition to a GIF or PNG quicklook version is my preferred method of delivery. PDFs are generally viewable and Acrobat Reader handles scaling files well: I have deckplans which are drawn at 15mm scale on a 36"x48" piece of "paper" but Acroboat Reader easily handles scaling the image for onscreen display or hardcopy output to Letter sized (or any other size) paper. The downside is that not everyone has the option to generate PDF.

GIF or PNG would be a better choice than JPEG. I generally dislike JPEG for deckplans and screen captures because JPEG, while good for photographs, is lossy (which means you can get compression artifacts if you aren't careful).

Ron
 
By the way, if you live in a city with a Fry's Electronics and need a package to do deckplans, Fry's was advertising copies of Canvas 9 Profesisonal for $150 with a $100 mail in rebate this last Friday (at least in the Houston area). Even without the rebate, $150 is an outstanding price for Canvas since it normally retails for $400 or so.

Canvas is what I use for professional work, and I find Canvas to be extremely well suited for doing deckplans. Canvas is a vector oriented general graphics package which is sort of a combination of Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Photoshop, and a light Pagemaker.

One of the reasons that Canvas is well suited for doing deckplans is that I can set the page drawing scale and units so that everything is measured and gridded in meters. And, there is a handy display are which lists the dimensions for the selected object including area.

Canvas also can output PDFs (along with a host of other file formats).

A 15 day demo of Canvas is available at www.deneba.com. A while back, I uploaded a Canvas deckplan starter file (including example) to the free library.

Ron
 
Ok, please tell me if this design is acceptable - 4,000 tons of Space Station for the "other" category; probably drawn in Paint Shop Pro or scanned and enhanced in it.
 
GIF, JPEG, and PNG formats are viewable by all. There may be a bit of a practical matter of image size vs. scale though for certain designs: if the ship has relatively few decks for its size, either the image size is going to be quite large (thousands upon thousands of pixels in at least one dimension) or the scale is going to be really small (really small grids, limiting discernable detail).

Not entirely. I was planning to submit each deck (or chunk thereof) as a separate reasonably high resolution plan. I mean, if AHL could come on a bunch of sheets, why not my 5K vessel?

PDF is okay, but Linux Geeken may have trouble with it due to Adobe not porting past Acrobat Reader 5.x so some of the new PDFs don't work well (or something like that... there has to be a *nix geek out here to clarify).

I think, in fact, I will provide mine with GIFs or JPGs, with thumbnails, and with HTML and PDF. With any luck, a lot of the generation of these can be automatic.

Still, I'm sure between us we can convert any necessary items and we can help those who have format X but want to get it into Y.

I'm going to look into this Canvas thing. What i really want is like AutoCAD12 that does raster floodfills well. I like most vector features, but the ability to say "and now fill in this region enclosed by colour X" is a great ability of paint programs. Vector programs rarely do it well or as conveniently.
 
Well the largest deckplan I have done so far is for the Fer de Lance DE, I'll have a think about something larger that would be useful.
 
How about a 5000 ton mobile 'Zone of Negotiable Virtue'? (Popular on the outrim worlds, frequent target of pirates, protected by outrim politicians, etc). ;)

<No, that's not my choice, though it might win most original....>
 
Slighty OT but one of my current campaigns is based on a 250dTon missisippi (gambling, opium, prostitution) river boat, *ahem* starship.

Only one of the players was disturbed by the speciality low berths for the storage of livestock.

All I'd need to do is inflate the ship 20 times
 
Gypsy Comet: Use a 1.5m (5') square grid for the entries. A number of the drawing programs use a 'layers' function. One layer may be for the square grid, another for the walls and a third for the doors. With my CC2Pro, with 'layers' capability, it is fairly easy for me to substitute a hexagonal grid for use in Gurps. If your software has a 'layers' capability you may want to add an additional set of plans, with the 2m TNE square grid or the Gurps hex grid, to your website in order to provide TNE or Gurps fans with ready made deckplans for use. For this contest use 1.5m (5') square grid.

Kaladorn: The 0.5kl difference between a CT dton (14kl) and the MT dton (13.5kl) is a variance of about 3.5%, within the 5% allowance. As far as ship design importance goes, the design is important and needs to be provided with the deckplan entry. The design should be in a detailed format (not just the short USP), viewable by all potential voters. The categories of 'Exotic/Alien' and 'Other' do not have the 5000 dton minimum size limit (They cannot be small craft, less than 100 dtons.).

Flykiller: In regards to demand, the poll at the yahoo deckplan group website has people noting these types as absent on the web. Seems that some people have looked for these types before and found them lacking on the web. Once the 'absent' deckplans are made available I am fairly certain that they will be used. Acceptable rulesets for this contest are CT, MT, TNE, T4, G:T and T20. Please design the entries according to one of these rulesets without 'house' rules. If I permitted 'house' rules to be used then that adds too much variance for people to judge entries equably and fairly (IMO).

Ron Vutpakdi: Thanks for bring up the subject of image size versus scale. If an entry has large decks please break them down into smaller images so that the details are not lost. As far as PNG vs JPEG goes, PNG format has smaller file size than JPEG also (at least for my machine/ software). Please use GIF, PNG, or JPEG for the entries.

Employee 2-4601: Yes, a 4000 dton spacestation is acceptable for the 'Other' category.
 
Acceptable rulesets for this contest are CT, MT, TNE, T4, G:T and T20 ... If I permitted 'house' rules to be used then that adds too much variance for people to judge entries equably and fairly.
(totally deadpan) yeah, you're right, we need less variance.
 
<i>Kaladorn: The 0.5kl difference between a CT dton (14kl) and the MT dton (13.5kl) is a variance of about 3.5%, within the 5% allowance. As far as ship design importance goes, the design is important and needs to be provided with the deckplan entry. The design should be in a detailed format (not just the short USP), viewable by all potential voters. The categories of 'Exotic/Alien' and 'Other' do not have the 5000 dton minimum size limit (They cannot be small craft, less than 100 dtons.). </i>

Damn, there goes my Vargr Jump Torpedooooooooooooawoooooooo! (I think in TNE you actual can design sub 100 dTon jump ships or so I had heard... <yikes!>).

I have several incredibly eccentric ideas. Mind you, some of them will require systems 'not covered' in the standard rules. All of the mandatory ones will be present. I guess in such a case, one makes notes of ones assumptions and choices with the design.

My point about 13.5 kl to 14 kl is 13.5 - 5% to 14 + 5% is actually more than a net 10% variance. That's all. I thought if you are standardizing on one grid size, you should also standardize on the definition of a kl (and 13.5 is closer to right).
 
Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
Gypsy Comet: Use a 1.5m (5') square grid for the entries. A number of the drawing programs use a 'layers' function. One layer may be for the square grid, another for the walls and a third for the doors. With my CC2Pro, with 'layers' capability, it is fairly easy for me to substitute a hexagonal grid for use in Gurps. If your software has a 'layers' capability you may want to add an additional set of plans, with the 2m TNE square grid or the Gurps hex grid, to your website in order to provide TNE or Gurps fans with ready made deckplans for use. For this contest use 1.5m (5') square grid.

TNE and T4 use a different floor area per ton, in that a single 2m square (4 m2 of floor) is one dton of floorplan, while the 1.5m editions (CT, MT, and T20) use a pair of 1.5m squares (or 4.5 m2 of floor) per ton. The variance is made up in assumed deck-to-deck seperation.

Thus, someone using FF&S for this contest will be building a non-TNE set of plans for a TNE design.

I appreciate your desire to "reduce variation", but you need to be aware that the TNE, T4, and G:T folks probably won't be showing up to this ballgame...
 
Originally posted by GypsyComet:
TNE and T4 use a different floor area per ton, in that a single 2m square (4 m2 of floor) is one dton of floorplan, while the 1.5m editions (CT, MT, and T20) use a pair of 1.5m squares (or 4.5 m2 of floor) per ton. The variance is made up in assumed deck-to-deck seperation.

Thus, someone using FF&S for this contest will be building a non-TNE set of plans for a TNE design.

I appreciate your desire to "reduce variation", but you need to be aware that the TNE, T4, and G:T folks probably won't be showing up to this ballgame...
(wearing undershorts outside pants and a dunce cap)
That I did not know. How dumb can I be? I want the TNE, T4 and G:T fans to come to the party. The fact that it is part of the design sequence for those rulesets means I have to change the contest rules. Official change: For TNE and T4 designs, submissions are acceptable in a 2m square grid. For G:T designs, submissions using a hexagonal grid are acceptable.
 
A few questions:
1) How "cannon" do you want the deckplans to be? That is, does the Power Plant need to be one "block", or several seperate units? Does the entire "bridge" tonnage needs to be actually a single "bridge" or several related components (e.g. avionics, communication systems, captain's office etc), as suggested by several threads?

2) What about user-defined components (Hydroponics/Extended Medlab)?

3) I use book 2 designs but my design is 4,000dtons; Do you prefer a Book 2 crew structure (i.e. normal crew + CO,XO and 3 Admins), or Book 5 crews?

4) Do the "turrets" actually be turrets, or could they be "mini-bays" (3 Missile Racks in a hull "hole") or a unified weapon (i.e. several Pulse Laser turrets united into one big beam-cannon, still used as a "laser battery" in ship combat?

5) is waste space allowed?

6) My station will have a huge fuel tank (1,000 dton in this variant), mostly used to refuel incoming ships. The tank will be semi-external (i.e. a "farm" or small tanks attached to the station's framework).
 
I have two designs in mind.

1) A 5000 dton small auxilliary. This would be a small collier/fueller designed to support the operations of squadrons of escort-sized ships (patrol cruisers, gazelles, armed scouts, etc). It would allow small groups of escorts to conduct more effective operations in defence of a system or perhaps support them during out-system task group assignments. It might also have a civilian variant which would be used to support IISS exploration missions or trading missions beyond the normal frontiers of civilization. I'm not sure if this can be usefully realized, this remains to be seen.

2) An alien starship, possibly for a race like Dolphins, Githiasko, or the like. A ship for a waterborne (and perhaps water-born) race might be an interesting creation).
 
Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
A few questions:
1) How "cannon" do you want the deckplans to be? That is, does the Power Plant need to be one "block", or several seperate units? Does the entire "bridge" tonnage needs to be actually a single "bridge" or several related components (e.g. avionics, communication systems, captain's office etc), as suggested by several threads?

2) What about user-defined components (Hydroponics/Extended Medlab)?
Most deckplans I have seen have the power plant located in one area, engineering, though the actual plant may be divided into a few components. Bridge tonnage might be subdivided into other parts. Probably 50% is actual 'bridge', a small percentage in a captain's office, about 5% for ship's lockers, a couple of smaller (3 dton) airlocks (one crew, one passenger) and some for a little extra corridor. In CT bridge tonnage usage is not set in stone, look at other deckplans to get a feel for it. I think having a two man 'cockpit' bridge for a 4000 dton station would be a bit small, IMO.
User-defined components, for items not clearly defined by the ruleset used (ie T20 has definitions for vehicle shops, etc), are acceptable as long as they are in some form of description of the ship with tonnage and cost. Such components would probably be subtracted from cargo or as part of the stateroom allocation.

3) I use book 2 designs but my design is 4,000dtons; Do you prefer a Book 2 crew structure (i.e. normal crew + CO,XO and 3 Admins), or Book 5 crews?

4) Do the "turrets" actually be turrets, or could they be "mini-bays" (3 Missile Racks in a hull "hole") or a unified weapon (i.e. several Pulse Laser turrets united into one big beam-cannon, still used as a "laser battery" in ship combat?
If you just have Book 2 to design your station then go with it's crew recommendations. If you are using Book 2 drives, plants, in essentially a Book 5 design use Book 5 crew requirements. For a 4000 dton station, using just Book 2, it should have about 30-60 crew all totaled, IMO, depending on how many turrets you have installed.
Since you're using Book 2 to design it then you're stuck with 'turrets' from Book 2. The actual appearance of these 'turrets' might not be a 'bubble' but you would IMO be limited to mounting three weapons (lasers, missiles, and/ or sandcasters only) per turret, max. If you are using components such as nuclear dampers, meson screens, black globes, bay weapons, spinal mounts, etc. (except the fuel purification plant) from Book 5 then you should design it using Book 5 and use it's crew requirements.

5) is waste space allowed?

6) My station will have a huge fuel tank (1,000 dton in this variant), mostly used to refuel incoming ships. The tank will be semi-external (i.e. a "farm" or small tanks attached to the station's framework).
Yes, 'waste space' is allowed but why would you want to have it. There is a difference between 'waste space' and 'reserved space'. You might have reserve space set aside for computer upgrades or for fire control for future turrets.
So you will have 3000 dton of 'deckplans' with structural members extending off one (or more) decks with a note like "Support boom for Z dtons of fuel tanks located X meters away".
 
Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
Bridge tonnage might be subdivided into other parts. Probably 50% is actual 'bridge', a small percentage in a captain's office, about 5% for ship's lockers, a couple of smaller (3 dton) airlocks (one crew, one passenger) and some for a little extra corridor. In CT bridge tonnage usage is not set in stone, look at other deckplans to get a feel for it. I think having a two man 'cockpit' bridge for a 4000 dton station would be a bit small, IMO.
I think I'd go for 25% actual "bridge", and 50% avionics/machinery/non-computer electronics, and 25% airlock/docking ports. Otherwise, on a 200dton ship, for example, you'd have a bridge crew of 1 or 2 in a huge 10 dton bridge. On the space station, you'd have a 20dton actual "bridge", 40 dton semi-accessible "avionics" and 20 dton docking/airlock areas. Corridors would be substracted from the Stateroom tonnage (each actual stateroom, according to LBB-2, in 2 dton; the rest is life support/galley/medlab/corridors).
 
Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
Bridge tonnage might be subdivided into other parts. Probably 50% is actual 'bridge', a small percentage in a captain's office, about 5% for ship's lockers, a couple of smaller (3 dton) airlocks (one crew, one passenger) and some for a little extra corridor. In CT bridge tonnage usage is not set in stone, look at other deckplans to get a feel for it. I think having a two man 'cockpit' bridge for a 4000 dton station would be a bit small, IMO.
I think I'd go for 25% actual "bridge", and 50% avionics/machinery/non-computer electronics, and 25% airlock/docking ports. Otherwise, on a 200dton ship, for example, you'd have a bridge crew of 1 or 2 in a huge 10 dton bridge. On the space station, you'd have a 20dton actual "bridge", 40 dton semi-accessible "avionics" and 20 dton docking/airlock areas. Corridors would be substracted from the Stateroom tonnage (each actual stateroom, according to LBB-2, in 2 dton; the rest is life support/galley/medlab/corridors). </font>[/QUOTE]I've been playing with the T20 bridge numbers on a few large designs (10Kton and 15Kton, and just this last bit 5Kton) as well as all the sub 1Kton designs of course.

What I've come up with, subject to whim, is interpreting the minimum 10tons as being a required airlock (3tons), 5 workstations (5tons) and the minimum repair and maintencance gear lockers (2tons). The remaining 10tons may be used as access corridors, extra workstations, or airlocks, no other use of the space is allowed on the deckplans. Of course what the players may do with the "found" space is up to them, until they get caught in an inspection ;)

Navy Lt. to Free-Trader Captain "Excuse me sir, this person we found in the auxiliary airlock claims that it is his stateroom. I can't tell you how many regs that breaks."

This is the requirement for ships from 100tons up to 1,000tons. Ships over 1,000tons must devot more space to lockers (10% of bridge tonnage minimum) but may not need more workstations or airlocks according to the designer.

The minimal airlock included in the bridge design, (and any full airlocks from extra bridge tonnage) includes 4 standard vacc-suits and 2 hostile environment suits per full 3ton airlock. Smaller airlocks may be added but do not include suits. Just the airlock may be purchased if needed and extra bridge tonnage is already used, at the standard cost of KCr1 per ton.

The standard allocation of the required workstations are Piloting, Astrogation, Sensors, Communications, and Engineering. Naturally the actual use can be programmed to cover any need, even turret Gunnery, or RCV operations. And of course some small ships don't require that level of crewing in all applications but the minimum is required to cover contingencies.

Some larger ships may need more workstations, and a few smaller ships may desire to include them. As long as the extra workstations come out of the left over bridge tonnage there is no added cost or volume (1ton each for easy access). Once that is used up extra workstations cost the standard KCr25 and require 1ton each.

The workstations need not all be co-located, or at the front of the ship, or have a viewport, or even face forward or have the same "up" orientation as the ship. Of course most designs do all the above for practical and psychological reasons.

Finally the minimal parts and tools, commonly referred to as the ship's locker, begin with enough gear to cover the preventitive maintenance and minimal emergency repairs for up to a year*. These tools and parts are specific to the model of ship but may be somewhat interchangeable with similar designs. The original tools and parts allow rolls to be made without penalty. Scavanged tools and/or parts will impose a penalty.

* In rule speak it's 12 units, each good for one attempted month of preventitive maintenance or 1 emergency repair attempt. That's succeed of fail so try not to mess up. And if you use up half your parts on repairs you won't be able to complete the routine maintenance without restocking. All new ship's start with a full gear load-out. Replacing the parts and worn tools is calculated as for the monthly routine maintenance costs and should be done as needed, or at least at the annual maintenance. The lockers are enough to hold the 12 units, so extra supplies and tools can be figured at the same rates if desired for long term or hazardous trips, or clumsy Engineers ;)
 
What I've come up with, subject to whim, is interpreting the minimum 10tons as being a required airlock (3tons), 5 workstations (5tons) and the minimum repair and maintencance gear lockers (2tons). The remaining 10tons may be used as access corridors, extra workstations, or airlocks, ...
in other words, no bridge.
 
Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />What I've come up with, subject to whim, is interpreting the minimum 10tons as being a required airlock (3tons), 5 workstations (5tons) and the minimum repair and maintencance gear lockers (2tons). The remaining 10tons may be used as access corridors, extra workstations, or airlocks, ...
in other words, no bridge. </font>[/QUOTE]Um, no, all that is the bridge, being items required to safely operate the ship. As opposed to say including sickbays, vehicle shops, or labs in "bridge" tonnage.

Of that, the bridge proper is going to be defined by the placement and use of the workstations. Centered on moving the ship so at a minimum 2 of the workstations, Piloting and Astrogation, will define The Bridge.

I should have perhaps expanded more clearly on workstation requirements for ships over 1Kton. Naturally you will require enough for the additional crew, at least those requiring interface with the ship's operation. So such ship's will need a minimum of 7 workstations. 2 Command stations (Captain and 1st Officer), 2 Piloting stations (Helm officers), 2 Astrogation stations (Astro officers), and 1 Communications station (Commo officer). Command support personell don't require workstations but I would add them. So the bridge proper for a ship over 1Kton is likely to have 10 workstations.

Anyway, I posted all that last night because it was the discussion of the moment when I went looking for the thread and I thought to add my thoughts, for feedback as much as anything. It's certainly not official though I think it meshes well with the intent. What I meant to post as follow up was my own participation announcement, but I got snagged by other interest after that post


So without much further ado...
 
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