Enhanced Awareness bonus dice and Psionics

[PsiTraveller]

The Enhanced Awareness power allows the creation of an enhanced level of concentration. The Psion is allowed to add the positive bonus of his Psi Strength to all Skill Checks. This lasts until he sleeps or fails a check.

Aside from being a completely awesome power for strong Psions, here is an odd question.
Would the Concentration bonus apply to Psionic Skill checks? So if a Psion had a score of 12 (a +2 bonus), and used the power first thing in the morning for 1 point they would then get +1 to all checks during the day until they slept or failed a check.
So if the Skill they wanted to use was a Psionic power, would they get +2 to the roll? (+1 for current Psi Strength) and +1 for enhanced concentration?

And to add to the recursive nature of the question, add in a psionic battery so they can recharge their points to 12. This will give a +2 Skill bonus to every Skill Check. The Psionic question remains as well, would they get a +4 bonus to their next Psion Check?

 

[Spinward Scout]

Does Psi Strength really go down as you spend points? That seems odd. You'd start getting a negative to all of your Psi skill checks after your points got below 6. That doesn't seem right at all.

Also, I'm pretty sure a Psionic Battery doesn't add to your Psi Strength, only usable points. A Psionic Enhancer would add to Psi Strength.

 

[hellblock]

According to book 4 (psion), page 4, 2nd paragraph of core psionic rules "Using a psionic talent costs a number of psionic strength points, temporarily reducing the characters total. As the characteristic DM for all psionic skill checks is determined by the characters current psionic strength total, it gets harder and harder to use powers as the character's strength declines"
So yes, as you use a psionic power you will eventually get penalties if you use them too much.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Psion Book page 4 under "Core Psionic Rules, 2nd paragraph
"Using a psionic talent costs a number of Psionic Strength points,
temporarily reducing the character’s total. As the Characteristic DM
for all Psionic skill checks is determined by the characters’ current
Psionic Strength total, it gets harder and harder to use powers as
the character’s strength declines."

So as the Stat goes down it gets tougher to use Psionics. Psi Strength is treated like Str, Dex End etc. if your current number is low the negative DM affects what you do. So a low Str score means it is tougher to lift things.

And the Battery idea: I thought it was possible to take points from the battery and take them back into you and not spend them. If your Psi Strength was 12, and you spent 3 your new score was 9. If you take 3 points from a battery is your Psi Strength not 12 now and your DM goes back up to +2? Or are points stored in a Battery only able to be pulled out to fuel a power? If so then pull 1 point out to fuel the Enhanced Awareness check and keep your Psi Strength at 12 for as long as possible. All powers that cost less than 3 are fueled by the battery first to keep your DM as high as possible for as long as possible.

Recharge the battery 3 hours before you go to bed.

 

[PsiTraveller]

and as a followup question. Psi Strength is rolled as 2d6 minus the number of terms served in any career in the Core book.

I am assuming that a Psionic Career does not suffer from this because they are using Psionics actively throughout their career and are rolling their 2d6 at the beginning of their first career.

Otherwise you end up with advanced Psions with no points to do anything.
(Which leads to widespread use of Tapping to power themselves.) hmm, that could get dark real fast. I like it.

 

[atpollard]

From this conversation, the Psionics book sounds like a referee's nightmare and a rules lawyer's wet dream ... similar to 'feats' in later editions of D&D.

Thank you, this sounds like the MgT Psionics book is definitely not my cup of tea.

 

[CosmicGamer]

From this conversation, the Psionics book sounds like a referee's nightmare and a rules lawyer's wet dream ... similar to 'feats' in later editions of D&D.

Thank you, this sounds like the MgT Psionics book is definitely not my cup of tea.

Well, is there any Traveller book where this hasn't been the case?

I've never seen rules lawyering as much of a "referee's nightmare". If there is something that I overlooked, then please do point it out. If there is disagreement and room for multiple interpretations, I as the ref am not a lawyer. I am the judge and there is no jury.

I think perhaps part of the problem is that this book is meant to cover a wide range of possible setting with psionics. It may require picking and choosing what powers and equipment works for you. Ignoring some things. Adapting some things to work together. Yes, perhaps a nightmare. But if one wants more advanced psionics than the core rules accommodates, lot's of good stuff can be found.

Just my opinion

 

[Spinward Scout]

Thanks for the rules clarification!

Don't forget, you only spend points after you make the skill check (pg. 152 'Using a Psionic Talent' in the main rulebook). How many points you spend depends on your skill check success or failure. So your Psi Strength in the skill check is based on how many points you had before you paid for using the Talent. In the original example above, you'd use the +2 and not just +1 after the Psi Points were reduced.

 

[CosmicGamer]

and as a followup question. Psi Strength is rolled as 2d6 minus the number of terms served in any career in the Core book.

I am assuming that a Psionic Career does not suffer from this because they are using Psionics actively throughout their career and are rolling their 2d6 at the beginning of their first career.

Otherwise you end up with advanced Psions with no points to do anything.
(Which leads to widespread use of Tapping to power themselves.) hmm, that could get dark real fast. I like it.

It is any career, not just those from the core book. Can't serve in careers from merc, high guard, and so on then not subtract for those careers.

Once strength is rolled, you don't reroll it after each term or when switching careers. Not sure what you mean by

I am assuming that a Psionic Career does not suffer from this

 

[PsiTraveller]

What I mean about the careers is this. Your character is 18, no careers chosen yet. They want to play a Psion. They roll their Stats, Str Dex End. etc. As a Psion character they will be using their psionics throughout their careers.

And here is where I get a little fuzzy on how things work. I am assuming that a Psion would be considered as trained and developed at the beginning of their career, as per page 7 of the Psion book. You have 2 choices, Psionics is realized at the beginning of your career, or at the end and you are out travelling.

So IMTU I assume any Mentoring or Institute training is complete by age 18, and waive the fees, or consider them paid off as the careers progress. Making up an adventure of how they got to be trained during character creation is not the focus of my game so I dropped it. (If someone could explain it to me that would be good as well.)
So If the 18 year old Psion rolls a 12 for Psi Strength they keep that 12 as their score through their careers, because they are trained and using the psionics.

On the other hand there is the other option where a different character finishes his 5 terms of careers and THEN rolls for Psionic Strength. They would get a -5 DM to their roll since they have not used, so if they rolled a 12 their Psi Strength would be 7.

So if you use the first option and psionic potential is realised before adventuring (which for a Psion career path would seem to be somewhat mandatory), then you do not get a - DM to your Psi Strength, since it is fixed before you start your career.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I think it was discussed in an earlier thread that you do Psionic training at the beginning of the Psion Career. If that starts at 18, then there's no penalty.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I think it was discussed in an earlier thread that you do Psionic training at the beginning of the Psion Career. If that starts at 18, then there's no penalty.

I didn't even consider that there would be any doubt about such. If nothing else, you need to roll up psionic strength just to determine the DM for your qualification/enlistment roll (Core book, many of the book 4 careers do use another characteristic) and there are also events within the careers that require a characteristic roll based on psionic strength.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I think it was really just unclear if you did the training first before going through the Career cycle, or just a psionic evaluation. As you gain skills throughout the terms of enlistment, you might not need that initial training. But, good to know.

 

[McPerth]

According to book 4 (psion), page 4, 2nd paragraph of core psionic rules "Using a psionic talent costs a number of psionic strength points, temporarily reducing the characters total. As the characteristic DM for all psionic skill checks is determined by the characters current psionic strength total, it gets harder and harder to use powers as the character's strength declines"
So yes, as you use a psionic power you will eventually get penalties if you use them too much.

So, a character with low-average psi strength (PSR 6) using special drug (6 point boost) will become quite powerful to use its powers (with a +2 DM)...

As an aside: Special Drug restores 9 points or boosts 6 points. If the user has already spent 1 point, will it restore 9 (so boosting him/her 8 points) or it will restore up to a +6 boost?

 

[PsiTraveller]

Pg 83 of Psion book
These drugs restore Psionic Strength if taken when the character
has already spent Psionic Strength points or temporarily increase
the character’s Psionic Strength if taken when he is at full Psionic
Strength.

So only 1 point would be restored and the rest wasted.

 

[CosmicGamer]

So only 1 point would be restored and the rest wasted.

First off, to me it seams an odd set of circumstances where one has the drug and decides not to use it while at full strength then suddenly needs it when down just one point.

Unless one is in a hurry/desperate, they just rest and then take the drug when they regain their point.

If they are in dire need, don't use special which costs 10,000Cr. and is rules lawyered to not be able to restore and boost psi strength in the same dose - even though it is the exact same drug. Use a dose of standard to restore to max and then Double to boost your strength 4 points.

I believe it's the same endurance check for more than one dose of Standard or Double Psi-Drug as a single dose of the Special drug. End up spending 5,000Cr less too.

Assuming such is available to them.

 

[PsiTraveller]

I was just posting the rules as written for the waste of the drug's effect. If I were GM'ing I might give a bonus to the user.

Waiting 4 hours to regain a point (3 from last use and 1 point thereafter if I recall correctly). Using the drug in a desperate moment is a heroic decision for the player to make. (and then demand payment to cover the cost from the rest of the group


Question for you CosmicGamer. If the Psion had a Psi battery, could they pull 1 point from it to restore their personal Psi Strength and THEN take the drug? Can batteries restore Psi Strength?

 

[CosmicGamer]

So, a character with low-average psi strength (PSR 6) using special drug (6 point boost) will become quite powerful to use its powers (with a +2 DM)...

Not powers. Power.

Use it and lose it.

Just one point used on a talent for a +2DM and now down to 11 strength and +1DM. Use a total of 4 points and you've blown through the drugs induced positive psi strength DMs.

There are penalties for taking multiple doses in a week so overall, useful, but you are nothing like a natural psi that can spend some time resting then be right back up to that +2DM again.

 

[PsiTraveller]

This is one of the choices the Psion faces. With Enhanced Awareness they can get a +2 (if their Psi Strength is 12) DM to all rolls until they fail a check or sleep, or they can use a power and lose the positive DM.
A +1 to all checks is still nice, so as long as they keep the characteristic high enough to get a bonus all is well.

On a darker note, Tapping now offers some interesting perks yourself and others. If Psi Strength is raised to 15 does the +3 bonus kick in for all checks?

Also, Psi Strength can be raised higher than 15 using Tapping, or be up to 2.5 times base Psi Strength for a transcendent Culture type game (pg 4 of Psion book).

Is +3 the maximum bonus you can get from a high Psi Strength score? Or what DM bonus do you get for a Psi Strength of 30?, or 60 if you are exceptionally vampiric? lol (and if you are carrying that many points, do your eyes glow? do you sparkle in sunlight? )

 

[CosmicGamer]

Question for you CosmicGamer. If the Psion had a Psi battery, could they pull 1 point from it to restore their personal Psi Strength and THEN take the drug? Can batteries restore Psi Strength?

Again, odd set of circumstances. Why wait till you are down a point to use the battery instead of just using the battery to conserve your strength (and DMs).

My interpretation is you draw on the personal battery at the time you use a talent and you don't draw on the battery to restore or boost strength.

However for the fancier psi talents and ships, if one uses such in their games, the ships K Vaults is described as a battery that an integrated psion can drawn upon "to supplement their own Psionic Strength".

For the rules lawyers, they will point out supplement is defined as "something that completes or enhances" and debate that you could both
restore (= complete) and boost (= enhance) ones psionic strength. They then could use this to imply that the personal battery can do such too, it just wasn't mentioned.

There is another recent thread where the K Vault is discussed.

Personally, I can see a few interpretations and mine can vary as I study and discuss it more.

At the moment I think that the batteries are a use it or lose it draw upon energy to power the use of a psi talent. The powerful and expensive K Vault possibly allowing the drawn energy to momentarily supplement the psi's strength and use the talent at a higher DM.

Again, a bit of rules lawyering and personal definitions for words that could be interpreted multiple ways especially if there isn't enough context.

To me gaining up to ones normal max is "regaining", "restoring" or "recovering". You keep that new level until it is used or lost through some means.

To me "Enhance", and "augment" can create a new maximum which may be semi permanent based on it's context and you can possibly "regain", "restore" or "recover" back to this new maximum. I say semi permanent as an implant could fail or be removed and some enhancements, like psionicly enhanced strength, wear off over time.

To me "Boost" and "supplement" can add an amount to a current value including beyond ones normal max but once lost, you can not "regain", "restore" or "recover" back any boosted amount that was over your max.

To me, you could possibly "Boost" or "supplement" a "Enhancement" or "augmentation".

Like I said, sometimes I get new ideas as things are discussed. Back to the previous discussion on the drugs

I was just posting the rules as written for the waste of the drug's effect. If I were GM'ing I might give a bonus to the user.

Me too.

My understanding is that the intent was it is easier to restore psi points via drugs than boost past the max. Makes sense. I believe the intent was not to say the drug can only be used as an either or but worded this way because we have two different values for the same drug depending on if points are to be restored or boosted.

For simplicity instead of saying a portion of the dose was for restore and portion for boost and calculating ratios and values, I think, if one wants, you could just allow the boost value to also restore.

For the earlier example, the person down one point could take Special at the boost value of 6, apply one point to restore psi strength to max and boost the strength to 5 over the normal max.

Again, these are my interpretations and way of thinking of things.