Rules Only: Enhancements that add dice or rerolls

[sekalo]

Ooops title should read *rerolls (sleepy after 16hour day of work)

So I got thinking earlier this week about creating some magical items that could/would enhance the character. However with the dice rolls being from 2-12 with an average of 7, any +1 modifier could have big impact depending on the skill level of the character as well. Due to the latter, and not wanting to overshadow the 5 levels of skill proficiency I thought it "might" be better to have something increase the dice in the roll from 2d6 to 3d6 OR have the ability to re roll a failed attempt, and having the last roll used.

I am not sure which would work better. 3d6 would give a range of 3-10.5-18, with 10.5 being the average. However, I know re-rolling failures can have some pretty goofy/crazy math, which I totally for get at this age, and really not clue where to look - for looking up the math on re-rolls vs +1,+2, etc. I just know that +1 can have some large scale impacts with higher skills due to the small dice range.

 

[mike wightman]

Mongoose Traveller has an advantage mechanic called boon. If you attempt a die roll in auspicious circumstance you get to roll 3d and choose the highest 2d to sum.

There is also a disadvantage mechanic called bane, in inauspicious circumstance you roll 3d and this time have to sum the lowest 2d.

 

[sekalo]

Mongoose Traveller has an advantage mechanic called boon. If you attempt a die roll in auspicious circumstance you get to roll 3d and choose the highest 2d to sum.

There is also a disadvantage mechanic called bane, in inauspicious circumstance you roll 3d and this time have to sum the lowest 2d.

Hi Mike,
What does that do to the probability of the dice roll? I was thinking of building a chart, which could show me where a (3d/take high or 3d/take low) would be better or worse then having a +/-#. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember some math examples where each case might be a higher probability.

 

[Ildefonse]

You can use AnyDice.com: 3d6 drop lowest would be "output [highest 2 of 3d6]", and results in a mean of 8.46. 3d6 drop highest would be "output [lowest 2 of 3d6]", and results in a mean of 5.54.

 

[sekalo]

You can use AnyDice.com: 3d6 drop lowest would be "output [highest 2 of 3d6]", and results in a mean of 8.46. 3d6 drop highest would be "output [lowest 2 of 3d6]", and results in a mean of 5.54.

Thank you for that link, and I was not aware of that site. This looks like another tool for me to learn, since I am not sure how to use the formula syntax.

Question - If I select "at most" it will give me the probability values for roll over target correct?

output [highest 2 of 3d6]

is showing me 68.06 for 8+, which I suspect is 68.06 %. Just round that to 68%.

 

[mike wightman]

There's more than just probability at play - my players love the boon/bane mechanic for some reason.

 

[sekalo]

There's more than just probability at play - my players love the boon/bane mechanic for some reason.

::laugh:: I totally get that. I have been running a rules light "roleplay" NOT "rollplay" game with the Pocket Fantasy rules, which as a reroll mechanic for classes. I have been trying to figure out how that mechanic changes the dice roll probability; however, either way - my players love the mechanic, so I totally understand when you say "my players love the boon/bane mechanic for some reason".

 

[Dragoner]

One of the things with an advantage mechanic that is not readily evident is that it moves the probablity in a range without changing the range, so like with 3d6 drop lowest, 2-12 is still the range, vs a +1 means that the range has changed to 3-13.

 

[sekalo]

One of the things with an advantage mechanic that is not readily evident is that it moves the probablity in a range without changing the range, so like with 3d6 drop lowest, 2-12 is still the range, vs a +1 means that the range has changed to 3-13.

I was looking at that aspect last night; however, I discounted it since I figured skill levels change the range as well and the concepts were beyond my understanding.

However, I guess if the average roll on a 2d6 is 7, then a +5 would be within the range, since average roll then would be 7-12-16; however, 12 on 2d6 was always a success, so I didn't understand where I was going with this logic and gave up. ::laugh::

 

[Dragoner]

Indeed +5 is a lot.

 

[Ildefonse]

Thank you for that link, and I was not aware of that site. This looks like another tool for me to learn, since I am not sure how to use the formula syntax.

Question - If I select "at most" it will give me the probability values for roll over target correct?

output [highest 2 of 3d6]

is showing me 68.06 for 8+, which I suspect is 68.06 %. Just round that to 68%.

No, "at least" does that: interpret "at least" as "the result of the roll is at least X", where "X" is the row. In your example, the "at least" of 8+ on "highest 2 of 3d6" is 68%.

 

[sekalo]

For those that use the 2d6 drop/low or drop/high works well? Seems like players like the idea of rolling and dropping dice or getting re-rolls.

 

[Dragoner]

Mostly I think it is something different, we all just like rolling dice in general, just try to have it be meaningful.

 

[sekalo]

::smiles:: I agree rolling dice is always fun and having the 2d6 drop-low/high is another tool. I like the idea due to the narrow scale of 2d6; however, I didn't know if it broke anything.

 

[Ildefonse]

I used 3d6 drop lowest for characteristics at a small, ad hoc session I ran over the summer (and then my usual house-rule of roll-and-pick for skills), and it worked just fine. I did this because the request was for "Classic Traveller, slightly more heroic". I didn't use the same concept when running the session, though.

 

[McPerth]

Ooops title should read *rerolls (sleepy after 16hour day of work)

Fixed

 

[Nathan Brazil]

So I got thinking earlier this week about creating some magical items that could/would enhance the character. ...

Magic, by implication, breaks the rules as we know them. Since you are in the Classic Traveller forum, it is whatever you make it.

If you are looking for a systemic approach, you are using the wrong approach because you are complaining of applying what sounds like an inherently linear bonus style as in d20/3.5/3.0/Modern single die rolls (no bell curve) to an inherently curved dice roll style of 2d6 (or whatever).

You need a different approach or way of thinking. Since you put this in the Classic Traveller:

There are other things that give far greater bonuses or penalties to start with, like in the range or armor "to hit" matrices. A +1 bonus is no big deal. Telescopic sights provide greater bonuses given the correct range. Armor provides far greater penalties. So a +1 is no big deal for weapons and armor.

Magic can have any limits you set. Maybe it always acts at a specified level like a "smart" Expert System tool, But it is of magic origin.

• A set of lockpicks that works at Mechanical-2 , (not add +1 to your Mechanical Skill). For someone with No skill whatsoever, this is a godsend. A true genius in the field does not need it.
• A monocle that grants Broker-0 in evaluating gems allowng you to add bonuses from your personal stats to the roll

 

[kilemall]

Fixed

Darn, I was looking forward to figuring out what a refoll could be.

 

[Daidoji Dave]

You can use AnyDice.com: 3d6 drop lowest would be "output [highest 2 of 3d6]", and results in a mean of 8.46. 3d6 drop highest would be "output [lowest 2 of 3d6]", and results in a mean of 5.54.

Hey, that's handy. I knew about anydice, but I hadn't dug into the documentation, there's more there than I realized.

I have been trying to figure out how that mechanic changes the dice roll probability...

It's worth about a +/-2 when you're looking at most common result. Then you can see it clusters other results closer to 5 or 9 compared to the pyramid shaped curve of 2d6, so the exact math is a little fuzzier than a simple + or -, but I just think of it as +/-2. Which would be a very solid modifier on 2d6, but still not crazy.

 

[Daidoji Dave]

I was trying to come up with other bonuses that weren't straight plusses when I was thinking of a more cyberpunked Traveller at one point. I came up with only a few: wired reflexes might be a cumulative +1 to initiative in combat (which sounds too powerful but most of my combats have been over quick) rather than a flat bonus to Dex, Tactical display with HUD or implants might offset Dodging but not provide a flat bonus otherwise.

Ultimately I never got enough to fill out a gear or augmentation list before I went with another game. I feel like there's more room for a larger list, but at the same time the 2d6 base of the game does constrain it in some directions.