Escape Velocity

[Supplement Four]

Here's something interesting about M-Drives, the WD article, and inertial compensators....




In response to the original WD article (what I describe above), it is suggested that a ship's M-Drive rating covers both the ship's acceleration and it's internal inertial compensation.

For example: A 5G drive could accelerate the ship at 3G and compensate at 2G, leaving the crew in a 1G field.

But, if the ship accelerated at 4G, only 1G would be left for compensation, so the crew would suffer the effects of being under 3Gs (and they'd take acceration damage: to the tune of 2D...one die per G over the standard of 1G).

You know...that's kinda cool. It leaves it up to the GM and the players. You can have those neat internal scenes as is described in the first few pages of Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy (great scene--check it out at your book store). And, it allows room for the ship's inertial compensator.

This one is something to think about, don't ya think?

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's something interesting about M-Drives, the WD article, and inertial compensators....




In response to the original WD article (what I describe above), it is suggested that a ship's M-Drive rating covers both the ship's acceleration and it's internal inertial compensation.

For example: A 5G drive could accelerate the ship at 3G and compensate at 2G, leaving the crew in a 1G field.

But, if the ship accelerated at 4G, only 1G would be left for compensation, so the crew would suffer the effects of being under 3Gs (and they'd take acceration damage: to the tune of 2D...one die per G over the standard of 1G).

You know...that's kinda cool. It leaves it up to the GM and the players. You can have those neat internal scenes as is described in the first few pages of Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy (great scene--check it out at your book store). And, it allows room for the ship's inertial compensator.

This one is something to think about, don't ya think?

 

[Maladominus]

DGP's Starship Operator's Manual says "yes". It states that starships have "overdrive" capability for short periods of time, allowing a ship with a 1G M-Drive to reach escape velocity from a 1G world.

I would personally go with this option, because it's the easiest form of Handwavium to implement.

I once had an old second-hand Datsun compact car. That was in the Jurassic Age, before Datsun became a company called "Nissan". Anyways, the Datsun's speedometer was only rated for a "Maximum Speed" of 95 mph. This was definitely not a performance car, but simply a subcompact mass-marketed piece of crap. Umm. I once broke that 95mph record, as I was driving along that autobahn highway to Las Vegas Nevada. I was easily speeding over 100 miles.... for a few minutes. I did not push my luck for more than a few minutes, or I would have been caught by the highway patrol eventually.

So now going back to the Traveller analogy. Yes, I would say that certain vehicles could theoretically go into "overdrive" for small bursts. Just because the craft is officially "rated" at 1G does not mean it could not be pushed to 1.1G.

Traveller 20-ton Launches are standard fare at 1G Maneuver. Anyone who owns the original LBB called "Traders and Gunboats" would know this. It's there in writing. That makes them pretty useless as space craft if they could not escape into space. Any engineer who works for "Googleheim Solomani Small Craft Manufacturing AG" would make sure that their manufactured Launches that are rated as "1G" can actually perform at around 1.2G. The ship would still be officially rated as 1G, because the fractional performance was rounded down. This is how I do it IMTU. No fuss, handwavium to the simplest, no complicated Reality Distortion Field to think about.

NOW.... on a different/parallel subject, I did have a question!

QUESTION:

In atmospheric flight (e.g. in the skies of Terra), what would be an estimated 'maximum' speed of that 1G-Maneuver 20-ton Launch?? I have looked and looked at all my CT rulebooks and manuals, and I simply have no idea. So far I have resorted to making really gross guesses like around.... 300kph? 400kph maximum speed? Am I even close?

 

[Maladominus]

DGP's Starship Operator's Manual says "yes". It states that starships have "overdrive" capability for short periods of time, allowing a ship with a 1G M-Drive to reach escape velocity from a 1G world.

I would personally go with this option, because it's the easiest form of Handwavium to implement.

I once had an old second-hand Datsun compact car. That was in the Jurassic Age, before Datsun became a company called "Nissan". Anyways, the Datsun's speedometer was only rated for a "Maximum Speed" of 95 mph. This was definitely not a performance car, but simply a subcompact mass-marketed piece of crap. Umm. I once broke that 95mph record, as I was driving along that autobahn highway to Las Vegas Nevada. I was easily speeding over 100 miles.... for a few minutes. I did not push my luck for more than a few minutes, or I would have been caught by the highway patrol eventually.

So now going back to the Traveller analogy. Yes, I would say that certain vehicles could theoretically go into "overdrive" for small bursts. Just because the craft is officially "rated" at 1G does not mean it could not be pushed to 1.1G.

Traveller 20-ton Launches are standard fare at 1G Maneuver. Anyone who owns the original LBB called "Traders and Gunboats" would know this. It's there in writing. That makes them pretty useless as space craft if they could not escape into space. Any engineer who works for "Googleheim Solomani Small Craft Manufacturing AG" would make sure that their manufactured Launches that are rated as "1G" can actually perform at around 1.2G. The ship would still be officially rated as 1G, because the fractional performance was rounded down. This is how I do it IMTU. No fuss, handwavium to the simplest, no complicated Reality Distortion Field to think about.

NOW.... on a different/parallel subject, I did have a question!

QUESTION:

In atmospheric flight (e.g. in the skies of Terra), what would be an estimated 'maximum' speed of that 1G-Maneuver 20-ton Launch?? I have looked and looked at all my CT rulebooks and manuals, and I simply have no idea. So far I have resorted to making really gross guesses like around.... 300kph? 400kph maximum speed? Am I even close?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Traveller 20-ton Launches are standard fare at 1G Maneuver. Anyone who owns the original LBB called "Traders and Gunboats" would know this. It's there in writing. That makes them pretty useless as space craft if they could not escape into space. Any engineer who works for "Googleheim Solomani Small Craft Manufacturing AG" would make sure that their manufactured Launches that are rated as "1G" can actually perform at around 1.2G. The ship would still be officially rated as 1G, because the fractional performance was rounded down.

Sometimes, a person can't see the forest for the trees. That's a great point, Mal.

But, also, the "grav assist" option would work too. These 1G Launches also have a grav drive, yes? So that they can operate in atmo efficiently?

I've always (or, rather, for a long time) have pictured some sort of "mix" that happens when a ship enters atmo, when slowly, the M-Drive releases its work pushing the ship over to the grav drive.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Traveller 20-ton Launches are standard fare at 1G Maneuver. Anyone who owns the original LBB called "Traders and Gunboats" would know this. It's there in writing. That makes them pretty useless as space craft if they could not escape into space. Any engineer who works for "Googleheim Solomani Small Craft Manufacturing AG" would make sure that their manufactured Launches that are rated as "1G" can actually perform at around 1.2G. The ship would still be officially rated as 1G, because the fractional performance was rounded down.

Sometimes, a person can't see the forest for the trees. That's a great point, Mal.

But, also, the "grav assist" option would work too. These 1G Launches also have a grav drive, yes? So that they can operate in atmo efficiently?

I've always (or, rather, for a long time) have pictured some sort of "mix" that happens when a ship enters atmo, when slowly, the M-Drive releases its work pushing the ship over to the grav drive.

 

[veltyen]

Originally by Maladominus:
QUESTION:

In atmospheric flight (e.g. in the skies of Terra), what would be an estimated 'maximum' speed of that 1G-Maneuver 20-ton Launch?? I have looked and looked at all my CT rulebooks and manuals, and I simply have no idea. So far I have resorted to making really gross guesses like around.... 300kph? 400kph maximum speed? Am I even close?

T20 lists all space craft that are not deliberately airframe as having a maximum speed in atmosphere as approximately subsonic ~ 1000 kmph.

If they're airframe designs then the 1-6 G rating is multiplied by 1000 kmph. A 6G craft is capable of hypersonic travel at about 6000 kmph. 2-5 G are supersonic, and 1G is still subsonic.

 

[veltyen]

Originally by Maladominus:
QUESTION:

In atmospheric flight (e.g. in the skies of Terra), what would be an estimated 'maximum' speed of that 1G-Maneuver 20-ton Launch?? I have looked and looked at all my CT rulebooks and manuals, and I simply have no idea. So far I have resorted to making really gross guesses like around.... 300kph? 400kph maximum speed? Am I even close?

T20 lists all space craft that are not deliberately airframe as having a maximum speed in atmosphere as approximately subsonic ~ 1000 kmph.

If they're airframe designs then the 1-6 G rating is multiplied by 1000 kmph. A 6G craft is capable of hypersonic travel at about 6000 kmph. 2-5 G are supersonic, and 1G is still subsonic.

 

[Maladominus]

Wow, I wasn't even close. Thank you for this clarification, veltyen!

In my current CT campaign, there have been 2 or 3 instances where the adventure group had used their Launch to "cruise" the skies of the planet they were surveying/exploring. There are many instances when they are prevented from landing their 300-ton starship to planetside (e.g. the planetary government did not give them permission to land their starship). In other situations, the planet terrain and topography makes it hazardous for them to try to land their 300-ton starship. This is when their small craft becomes extremely useful.

 

[Maladominus]

Wow, I wasn't even close. Thank you for this clarification, veltyen!

In my current CT campaign, there have been 2 or 3 instances where the adventure group had used their Launch to "cruise" the skies of the planet they were surveying/exploring. There are many instances when they are prevented from landing their 300-ton starship to planetside (e.g. the planetary government did not give them permission to land their starship). In other situations, the planet terrain and topography makes it hazardous for them to try to land their 300-ton starship. This is when their small craft becomes extremely useful.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
QUESTION:

In atmospheric flight (e.g. in the skies of Terra), what would be an estimated 'maximum' speed of that 1G-Maneuver 20-ton Launch??

Striker. Book 2. Pg. 41.
Striker. Book 3. Pg. 11.

In looking up an answer for you, I found some interesting reading.

Check this out:

(from SB2, pg 41) The movement rate of a spaceship is determined in the same way as that for a grav vehicle; the ship's maneuver drive rating is used as it's G value. A ship with a G rating equal to or less than the planetary gravity may not take part in combat actions except from orbit.

Did you see that? Shocked me too. It implies that the White Dwarf article wasn't that far off after all...

Now, to make it a little more clear, check this out:

(from SB3, pg 11) One G is needed to keep the vehicle in the air (and if its thrust is less than one G, the vehicle cannot move); thrust in excess of one G is used for maneuver. Thus to find maneuver Gs, subtract one from the total G value.

So...I'm reading that correctly, right? "Official Classic Traveller rules" are saying that a starship, with a 1G M-Drive, can only hover on a world with a 1G field. It doesn't have enough power for thrust!!

The White Dwarf article IS RIGHT!

A starship with a 1G M-Drive rating cannot make escape velocity from a 1G gravity field.

OK...so I pull out my Traveller Book. I'm checking...I'm checking...

Yep, all the vessels that have "wings" have M-Drive ratings better than 1G.

Slow Boat: 3G
Pinnance: 5G
Slow Pinnance: 2G
Shuttle: 3G
Fighter: 6G






OH MY GOD!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

ALL THESE YEARS I'VE BEEN PLAYING TRAVELLER...

...AND THERE IT IS IN BLACK & WHITE!!!!!!

A STARSHIP WITH A 1G M-DRIVE CANNOT MAKE ESCAPE VELOCITY FROM A SIZE 8 WORLD!




That's going to change my whole game.




Mal, does that answer your question? Your 20 ton launch will do 0 kph on a size 8 world.

(BTW, if you want to find out the speeds for ships rated 2G+, just look at pg. 11 of Striker Book 3.)


Incredible.

I'm flabbergasted.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
QUESTION:

In atmospheric flight (e.g. in the skies of Terra), what would be an estimated 'maximum' speed of that 1G-Maneuver 20-ton Launch??

Striker. Book 2. Pg. 41.
Striker. Book 3. Pg. 11.

In looking up an answer for you, I found some interesting reading.

Check this out:

(from SB2, pg 41) The movement rate of a spaceship is determined in the same way as that for a grav vehicle; the ship's maneuver drive rating is used as it's G value. A ship with a G rating equal to or less than the planetary gravity may not take part in combat actions except from orbit.

Did you see that? Shocked me too. It implies that the White Dwarf article wasn't that far off after all...

Now, to make it a little more clear, check this out:

(from SB3, pg 11) One G is needed to keep the vehicle in the air (and if its thrust is less than one G, the vehicle cannot move); thrust in excess of one G is used for maneuver. Thus to find maneuver Gs, subtract one from the total G value.

So...I'm reading that correctly, right? "Official Classic Traveller rules" are saying that a starship, with a 1G M-Drive, can only hover on a world with a 1G field. It doesn't have enough power for thrust!!

The White Dwarf article IS RIGHT!

A starship with a 1G M-Drive rating cannot make escape velocity from a 1G gravity field.

OK...so I pull out my Traveller Book. I'm checking...I'm checking...

Yep, all the vessels that have "wings" have M-Drive ratings better than 1G.

Slow Boat: 3G
Pinnance: 5G
Slow Pinnance: 2G
Shuttle: 3G
Fighter: 6G






OH MY GOD!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

ALL THESE YEARS I'VE BEEN PLAYING TRAVELLER...

...AND THERE IT IS IN BLACK & WHITE!!!!!!

A STARSHIP WITH A 1G M-DRIVE CANNOT MAKE ESCAPE VELOCITY FROM A SIZE 8 WORLD!




That's going to change my whole game.




Mal, does that answer your question? Your 20 ton launch will do 0 kph on a size 8 world.

(BTW, if you want to find out the speeds for ships rated 2G+, just look at pg. 11 of Striker Book 3.)


Incredible.

I'm flabbergasted.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

BUT WAIT!!!

I think to myself. The Traveller Adventure. Yeah. The March Harrier has a 1G M-Drive, and that adventure begins on the ground.

...at Aramis Down starport.

So, I flip out my trusty TA, and what do I see? Yep, there's the March Harrier. Yep, there's the 1G M-Drive. Yep, there's the size of the planet....the size of Armis is size 6.

Smaller than Terra.

Looking at my Traveller Book, I see that a size 6 world has a gravity field of .75 Gs.

Then, looking at Striker, I see that gives the March Harrier .25 Gs of thrust.

Which means, the Harrier can maneuver to the surface of Aramis, albeit slowly.

At Aramis, the Harrier would have these speed ratings:

Max. Speed: 300 kph
Cruise Speed: 225 kph
NOE Speed: 75 kph




In essence, what official CT Rules say is that a starship with a 1G M-Drive can land on a world of Size 7 or less. But, it's stuck in orbit on worlds Size 8+.

 

[Supplement Four]

BUT WAIT!!!

I think to myself. The Traveller Adventure. Yeah. The March Harrier has a 1G M-Drive, and that adventure begins on the ground.

...at Aramis Down starport.

So, I flip out my trusty TA, and what do I see? Yep, there's the March Harrier. Yep, there's the 1G M-Drive. Yep, there's the size of the planet....the size of Armis is size 6.

Smaller than Terra.

Looking at my Traveller Book, I see that a size 6 world has a gravity field of .75 Gs.

Then, looking at Striker, I see that gives the March Harrier .25 Gs of thrust.

Which means, the Harrier can maneuver to the surface of Aramis, albeit slowly.

At Aramis, the Harrier would have these speed ratings:

Max. Speed: 300 kph
Cruise Speed: 225 kph
NOE Speed: 75 kph




In essence, what official CT Rules say is that a starship with a 1G M-Drive can land on a world of Size 7 or less. But, it's stuck in orbit on worlds Size 8+.

 

[far-trader]

<Pulls out spare set of Peril Sensitive Sunglasses>

"Here, put these on."

Now let's not panic the flock Brother

Remember the mysteries of canon are not always clear to the novices

First, don't forget that the Holy Books of Striker, like the other Holy Books of Board Games, while certainly related to the Most Holy RPG, blessed be the Trinity of LBB1-3, are not exactly the same. Some heretics call this inconsistancy

But we learned keepers of Traveller know that this is simply one of the mysteries of the faith.

Alright, enough hokum blather, the unbelievers and true belivers both will have all stopped reading by now

As I said, and mean in all seriousness, there are differences between the Board Game rules and the RPG rules. Often irreconcilable in the strictest sense. And inapplicable between the two in many cases. Drawing inferences for one from the other is looking for trouble. The RPG is clear that ships have no trouble navigating gravity. It's not directly addressed as a problem and it's implied if not outright provable that they have a form of lift IN ADDITION to the maneuver drive. Ignore Striker for this bit, as it applies to space craft and ships.

Check your Traveller Book again

Making inferences based on the drawings is not gonna cut it either. And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets. Notice how it says nothing about subtract 1G. Sure maybe that was an oversight, but it was NEVER corrected then. Safer (for sanities sake) to go with a seperate lift mechanic for space craft and ships

You may now remove your Peril Sensitive Sunglasses

 

[far-trader]

<Pulls out spare set of Peril Sensitive Sunglasses>

"Here, put these on."

Now let's not panic the flock Brother

Remember the mysteries of canon are not always clear to the novices

First, don't forget that the Holy Books of Striker, like the other Holy Books of Board Games, while certainly related to the Most Holy RPG, blessed be the Trinity of LBB1-3, are not exactly the same. Some heretics call this inconsistancy

But we learned keepers of Traveller know that this is simply one of the mysteries of the faith.

Alright, enough hokum blather, the unbelievers and true belivers both will have all stopped reading by now

As I said, and mean in all seriousness, there are differences between the Board Game rules and the RPG rules. Often irreconcilable in the strictest sense. And inapplicable between the two in many cases. Drawing inferences for one from the other is looking for trouble. The RPG is clear that ships have no trouble navigating gravity. It's not directly addressed as a problem and it's implied if not outright provable that they have a form of lift IN ADDITION to the maneuver drive. Ignore Striker for this bit, as it applies to space craft and ships.

Check your Traveller Book again

Making inferences based on the drawings is not gonna cut it either. And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets. Notice how it says nothing about subtract 1G. Sure maybe that was an oversight, but it was NEVER corrected then. Safer (for sanities sake) to go with a seperate lift mechanic for space craft and ships

You may now remove your Peril Sensitive Sunglasses

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
<Pulls out spare set of Peril Sensitive Sunglasses>

"Here, put these on."

Now let's not panic the flock Brother

Remember the mysteries of canon are not always clear to the novices

First, don't forget that the Holy Books of Striker, like the other Holy Books of Board Games, while certainly related to the Most Holy RPG, blessed be the Trinity of LBB1-3

Dude, I can't even finish reading your post because I've got water in my eyes, grabbing my guy, out of my chair, laughing my ass off...and everybody in the house thinks I'm crazy.

Ok...I'll try to calm down and finish it.

Hold on. I might have to finish it after Battlestar is over...

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
<Pulls out spare set of Peril Sensitive Sunglasses>

"Here, put these on."

Now let's not panic the flock Brother

Remember the mysteries of canon are not always clear to the novices

First, don't forget that the Holy Books of Striker, like the other Holy Books of Board Games, while certainly related to the Most Holy RPG, blessed be the Trinity of LBB1-3

Dude, I can't even finish reading your post because I've got water in my eyes, grabbing my guy, out of my chair, laughing my ass off...and everybody in the house thinks I'm crazy.

Ok...I'll try to calm down and finish it.

Hold on. I might have to finish it after Battlestar is over...

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Dude, I can't even finish reading your post because I've got water in my eyes, grabbing my guy...

Um... that was supposed to be "gut".

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Dude, I can't even finish reading your post because I've got water in my eyes, grabbing my guy...

Um... that was supposed to be "gut".