Escape Velocity

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Dude, I can't even finish reading your post because I've got water in my eyes, grabbing my gut, out of my chair, laughing my ass off...and everybody in the house thinks I'm crazy.

Ok...I'll try to calm down and finish it.

Hold on. I might have to finish it after Battlestar is over...

My work here is done

Happy to have injected some levity into your life, let me know what asylum your relatives send you to

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Dude, I can't even finish reading your post because I've got water in my eyes, grabbing my gut, out of my chair, laughing my ass off...and everybody in the house thinks I'm crazy.

Ok...I'll try to calm down and finish it.

Hold on. I might have to finish it after Battlestar is over...

My work here is done

Happy to have injected some levity into your life, let me know what asylum your relatives send you to

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by far-trader:

Check your Traveller Book again

..... And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets. Notice how it says nothing about subtract 1G. Sure maybe that was an oversight, but it was NEVER corrected then.

Ahh... good old Traveller Book! I'm amenable to that. =)

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by far-trader:

Check your Traveller Book again

..... And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets. Notice how it says nothing about subtract 1G. Sure maybe that was an oversight, but it was NEVER corrected then.

Ahh... good old Traveller Book! I'm amenable to that. =)

 

[Maladominus]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!! Insanity is contagious today.

All the previous discussion on the pokey Classic Traveller "1G Launch" is now rendered moot.

This week, (actually just tonight) I just purchased Loren K. Wiseman's newly-released OFFICIAL PDF SUPPLEMENT FOR CLASSIC TRAVELLER: "The 20-ton Launch"

Yeah. You know? Loren? One of the "other guys" who co-wrote much of Classic Traveller. Anyways, in Loren's new supplement, which I will remind you all is fully licensed/sanctioned (by MWM) Classic Traveller product.... the basic assumption is that the 20-ton Launch has QUOTE "a Maneuver drive rated for 2Gs" UNQUOTE.

Loren stays pretty consistent with what has been said on this very thread. At the end of this PDF are the stats and performance ratings, and it can be assumed that of those 2Gs, 1G is taken away to "keep the vehicle in the air" (quoting S4 here). And the remaining 1G provides a potent movement rating of:

Cruise speed = 750kph
Top speed = 1000kph

Thank you Loren. Works for me. Plus, I love that his supplement (just like his previous pdf on the 30-ton Ships Boat) also provides deckplans of the variants such as the Life Boat, Hunter's Launch, Liaison/VIP Launch, Survey Launch, Search & Rescue Launch, Armed Gig, etc.

If you're a CT fan, I recommend this PDF purchase. You pay Loren a mere $2 for the download. Don't really have much to lose for 2 dollars. Get it thru his website directly, or thru RPGNow.com


Loren's 20-ton Launch via RPGNow.com

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=21221&

Loren's 20-ton Launch via his website

http://www.cgi101.com/~lkw/pdf.html

 

[Maladominus]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!! Insanity is contagious today.

All the previous discussion on the pokey Classic Traveller "1G Launch" is now rendered moot.

This week, (actually just tonight) I just purchased Loren K. Wiseman's newly-released OFFICIAL PDF SUPPLEMENT FOR CLASSIC TRAVELLER: "The 20-ton Launch"

Yeah. You know? Loren? One of the "other guys" who co-wrote much of Classic Traveller. Anyways, in Loren's new supplement, which I will remind you all is fully licensed/sanctioned (by MWM) Classic Traveller product.... the basic assumption is that the 20-ton Launch has QUOTE "a Maneuver drive rated for 2Gs" UNQUOTE.

Loren stays pretty consistent with what has been said on this very thread. At the end of this PDF are the stats and performance ratings, and it can be assumed that of those 2Gs, 1G is taken away to "keep the vehicle in the air" (quoting S4 here). And the remaining 1G provides a potent movement rating of:

Cruise speed = 750kph
Top speed = 1000kph

Thank you Loren. Works for me. Plus, I love that his supplement (just like his previous pdf on the 30-ton Ships Boat) also provides deckplans of the variants such as the Life Boat, Hunter's Launch, Liaison/VIP Launch, Survey Launch, Search & Rescue Launch, Armed Gig, etc.

If you're a CT fan, I recommend this PDF purchase. You pay Loren a mere $2 for the download. Don't really have much to lose for 2 dollars. Get it thru his website directly, or thru RPGNow.com


Loren's 20-ton Launch via RPGNow.com

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=21221&

Loren's 20-ton Launch via his website

http://www.cgi101.com/~lkw/pdf.html

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Check your Traveller Book again

Making inferences based on the drawings is not gonna cut it either. And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets.

I'm trying to see what you're talking about. I am. But, there is no travel times to orbit table in the Traveller Book.

There's a Typical Travel Times table on pg. 54, but it doesn't show travel times to orbit for "all sizes of planets" as you say.

What it mainly shows is safe jump distance from worlds.

There's only one line that says "Typical distance surface to orbit", and the 1G column is market. But, if you use the Travel Formula, right above the table, it's easy to see that a world's gravity wasn't considered...neither is world size...all the table shows is how long it will take a ship to move 10,000 km.

I think you're looking at the table wrong.

Besides, looking at Striker, a 1G starship can land on worlds that are Size 7 or less.

Also, Striker isn't a board game. It's not Imperium or Fifth Frontier War or Dark Nebula or even Mayday. It's a set of rules for squad sized-plus mass combat.

It's a set of rules like Snapshot (tactical combat for the rpg) or Azhanti High Lightning (interior combat vs. Striker's exterior combat).

And, throughout the JTAS and other Traveller articles, Striker is cited as the vehicle design system for the Traveller RPG.

Starships are vehicles.

I'm thinking that Striker's rule on this isn't an inconsistency...especially since I see nothing in the main RPG rules to dispute it.

The Striker rules are meant (or at least capable) of being integrated with the RPG. There's a whole section on integrating Striker with Traveller starting on pg. 38 of Striker Book 2.

Guess what...that rule I quoted above in Striker was taken from the Integration With Traveller section of the Striker rules. That rule (that says a ship with a G rating the same as or less than planetary gravity) was written specifically for the Traveller RPG and it's integration with Striker. It's not a Striker rule sitting out there by itself. It's in the specific RPG section. Check it out yourself, pg. 41, Striker Book 2.

Then, there's the White Dwarf article. Written before Striker was published. Obviously, some other Traveller gamers were thinking about escape velocity and 1G M-Drives on Size 8 worlds.

On top of this, all small craft ships in the Traveller Book, except the 20 ton Launch (which is described in the text as a life boat), is fitted with 2G+ M-Drives.

Coincidence?

Here's what I think happened.

I think, in CT, it is the case where a 1G ship can only land on Size 7 worlds or smaller.

Then, MegaTraveller came along, and this little thing was changed.

I think they threw it out because it was too much of a hassel to deal with.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Check your Traveller Book again

Making inferences based on the drawings is not gonna cut it either. And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets.

I'm trying to see what you're talking about. I am. But, there is no travel times to orbit table in the Traveller Book.

There's a Typical Travel Times table on pg. 54, but it doesn't show travel times to orbit for "all sizes of planets" as you say.

What it mainly shows is safe jump distance from worlds.

There's only one line that says "Typical distance surface to orbit", and the 1G column is market. But, if you use the Travel Formula, right above the table, it's easy to see that a world's gravity wasn't considered...neither is world size...all the table shows is how long it will take a ship to move 10,000 km.

I think you're looking at the table wrong.

Besides, looking at Striker, a 1G starship can land on worlds that are Size 7 or less.

Also, Striker isn't a board game. It's not Imperium or Fifth Frontier War or Dark Nebula or even Mayday. It's a set of rules for squad sized-plus mass combat.

It's a set of rules like Snapshot (tactical combat for the rpg) or Azhanti High Lightning (interior combat vs. Striker's exterior combat).

And, throughout the JTAS and other Traveller articles, Striker is cited as the vehicle design system for the Traveller RPG.

Starships are vehicles.

I'm thinking that Striker's rule on this isn't an inconsistency...especially since I see nothing in the main RPG rules to dispute it.

The Striker rules are meant (or at least capable) of being integrated with the RPG. There's a whole section on integrating Striker with Traveller starting on pg. 38 of Striker Book 2.

Guess what...that rule I quoted above in Striker was taken from the Integration With Traveller section of the Striker rules. That rule (that says a ship with a G rating the same as or less than planetary gravity) was written specifically for the Traveller RPG and it's integration with Striker. It's not a Striker rule sitting out there by itself. It's in the specific RPG section. Check it out yourself, pg. 41, Striker Book 2.

Then, there's the White Dwarf article. Written before Striker was published. Obviously, some other Traveller gamers were thinking about escape velocity and 1G M-Drives on Size 8 worlds.

On top of this, all small craft ships in the Traveller Book, except the 20 ton Launch (which is described in the text as a life boat), is fitted with 2G+ M-Drives.

Coincidence?

Here's what I think happened.

I think, in CT, it is the case where a 1G ship can only land on Size 7 worlds or smaller.

Then, MegaTraveller came along, and this little thing was changed.

I think they threw it out because it was too much of a hassel to deal with.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Loren stays pretty consistent with what has been said on this very thread. At the end of this PDF are the stats and performance ratings, and it can be assumed that of those 2Gs, 1G is taken away to "keep the vehicle in the air" (quoting S4 here).

Well, look at that. So, Striker is correct. My assumption/revelation today is correct. Heck, the White Dward article IS CORRECT!.

But...

Is the Launch in your purchase today rated at 1G or 2Gs?

If rated at 2Gs, the it operates at 2Gs in space and at 1G on a size 8 world.

Or...is Loren saying that, in effect, the Launch has a 1G M-Drive (for use in space) and a 1G grav-assist drive (for planetary landing, hovering, flying, etc)?

If the latter, it can be assumed that all starships have a 1G grav-assit drive.

The grav-assist drive, like the drive of an air/raft, is only works inside a gravity well...so there really is no "additonal 1G" of thrust a ship can call upon in space combat.

I know, though, that this idea was pretty much dropped in MT, because of the "overdrive" concept in the SOM (DGP says a ship's operator can "overdrive" an M-Drive by up to 400%...meaning a 1G drive can act as a 4G drive for short periods of time) and the charts in the MT rule books showing travel times to orbit (probably what fartrader above was thinking about) for every size of world.

And the remaining 1G provides a potent movement rating of:

Cruise speed = 750kph
Top speed = 1000kph

Let's see how that compares to what Striker says..

A grav vehicle with 1G of thrust on a Size 8 world would have these speeds:

Max Speed: 1200 kph
Cruise Speed: 900 kph
NOE Speed: (limited by Avionics package..at TL 11, NOE is 150 kph)

Hmm...pretty close to your numbers above...

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Loren stays pretty consistent with what has been said on this very thread. At the end of this PDF are the stats and performance ratings, and it can be assumed that of those 2Gs, 1G is taken away to "keep the vehicle in the air" (quoting S4 here).

Well, look at that. So, Striker is correct. My assumption/revelation today is correct. Heck, the White Dward article IS CORRECT!.

But...

Is the Launch in your purchase today rated at 1G or 2Gs?

If rated at 2Gs, the it operates at 2Gs in space and at 1G on a size 8 world.

Or...is Loren saying that, in effect, the Launch has a 1G M-Drive (for use in space) and a 1G grav-assist drive (for planetary landing, hovering, flying, etc)?

If the latter, it can be assumed that all starships have a 1G grav-assit drive.

The grav-assist drive, like the drive of an air/raft, is only works inside a gravity well...so there really is no "additonal 1G" of thrust a ship can call upon in space combat.

I know, though, that this idea was pretty much dropped in MT, because of the "overdrive" concept in the SOM (DGP says a ship's operator can "overdrive" an M-Drive by up to 400%...meaning a 1G drive can act as a 4G drive for short periods of time) and the charts in the MT rule books showing travel times to orbit (probably what fartrader above was thinking about) for every size of world.

And the remaining 1G provides a potent movement rating of:

Cruise speed = 750kph
Top speed = 1000kph

Let's see how that compares to what Striker says..

A grav vehicle with 1G of thrust on a Size 8 world would have these speeds:

Max Speed: 1200 kph
Cruise Speed: 900 kph
NOE Speed: (limited by Avionics package..at TL 11, NOE is 150 kph)

Hmm...pretty close to your numbers above...

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
...I just purchased Loren K. Wiseman's newly-released OFFICIAL PDF SUPPLEMENT FOR CLASSIC TRAVELLER: "The 20-ton Launch"

Not so newly released. Been kickin around my hard drive for a while. Definitely a great buy!

I'd forgotten his take on it. Probably because ever since High Guard came out I've never built a 20ton craft with less than 2G

It's just a waste. The minimum drive size of 1ton means you get 2G. It costs very little more and iirc even the power plant minimum means you can power it at most TLs.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
Check your Traveller Book again

Making inferences based on the drawings is not gonna cut it either. And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets.

I'm trying to see what you're talking about. I am. But, there is no travel times to orbit table in the Traveller Book.</font>[/QUOTE]Ah, you're right, I was misremembering it That'll teach me to post on a memory (until I forget again )

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Also, Striker isn't a board game.

Well, it's rules for miniatures battles, not RPG but sandtable/tactical gaming, a board game.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
And, throughout the JTAS and other Traveller articles, Striker is cited as the vehicle design system for the Traveller RPG.

Yep, know that, but can any of the original RPG vehicles be built with Striker? By which I mean they come out the same performance wise.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
...Starships are vehicles.

Stretches the point a bit. You can't build them with Striker.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I'm thinking that Striker's rule on this isn't an inconsistency...especially since I see nothing in the main RPG rules to dispute it.

It's a blatant inconsistancy. There is neither any suggestion in the RPG rules suggesting that the Striker rule is used either. The fact it isn't mentioned speaks more for it than that it is ruled out.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
The Striker rules are meant (or at least capable) of being integrated with the RPG. There's a whole section on integrating Striker with Traveller starting on pg. 38 of Striker Book 2.

Guess what...that rule I quoted above in Striker was taken from the Integration With Traveller section of the Striker rules. That rule (that says a ship with a G rating the same as or less than planetary gravity) was written specifically for the Traveller RPG and it's integration with Striker. It's not a Striker rule sitting out there by itself. It's in the specific RPG section. Check it out yourself, pg. 41, Striker Book 2.

For integrating Traveller into Striker, not the other way around. Adding starship capability to Striker this way makes sense. Integrating Striker style miniatures combat rules into Traveller (an RPG) by changing the way starships work makes zero sense.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Then, there's the White Dwarf article. Written before Striker was published. Obviously, some other Traveller gamers were thinking about escape velocity and 1G M-Drives on Size 8 worlds.

Obviously. And just as obvious many more took a different path. As evidenced by the later explanations of overpowering thrusters and contra-grav lifters. I think there's room for more than one answer.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
On top of this, all small craft ships in the Traveller Book, except the 20 ton Launch (which is described in the text as a life boat), is fitted with 2G+ M-Drives.

And what of the Hunter Launch? It's pretty obviously intended to be used for landings. And no wings. And what about the unstreamlined Sub Liner with it's Launch apparently intended specifically for planetary interface?

Coincidence?

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Here's what I think happened.

I think, in CT, it is the case where a 1G ship can only land on Size 7 worlds or smaller.

Then, MegaTraveller came along, and this little thing was changed.

I think they threw it out because it was too much of a hassel to deal with.

Here's what I think happened. Nobody thought about it.

And if they did it simply wasn't factored as a neccessary complication. The intent seems to be to ignore gravity except in space combat. Now that's an internal inconsistancy that has always bugged me. The travel time to orbit clearly ignores gravity but the vector combat rules clearly include it.

Anyway, I was just offering alternatives to rebuilding the entire game from the ground up (ooh, punny

) which is what you'd pretty much have to do if you start factoring gravity into every trip. Because you can't just look at the Gs a starship has, you have to figure out it's mass as well. Loaded and unloaded, and everything inbetween, every time the players approach a planet. Too much work, far easier to use the contra-grav field and ignore mass and gravity.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
...I just purchased Loren K. Wiseman's newly-released OFFICIAL PDF SUPPLEMENT FOR CLASSIC TRAVELLER: "The 20-ton Launch"

Not so newly released. Been kickin around my hard drive for a while. Definitely a great buy!

I'd forgotten his take on it. Probably because ever since High Guard came out I've never built a 20ton craft with less than 2G

It's just a waste. The minimum drive size of 1ton means you get 2G. It costs very little more and iirc even the power plant minimum means you can power it at most TLs.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
Check your Traveller Book again

Making inferences based on the drawings is not gonna cut it either. And look at the travel times to orbit table. Notice how there is a 1G column, for all sizes of planets.

I'm trying to see what you're talking about. I am. But, there is no travel times to orbit table in the Traveller Book.</font>[/QUOTE]Ah, you're right, I was misremembering it That'll teach me to post on a memory (until I forget again )

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Also, Striker isn't a board game.

Well, it's rules for miniatures battles, not RPG but sandtable/tactical gaming, a board game.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
And, throughout the JTAS and other Traveller articles, Striker is cited as the vehicle design system for the Traveller RPG.

Yep, know that, but can any of the original RPG vehicles be built with Striker? By which I mean they come out the same performance wise.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
...Starships are vehicles.

Stretches the point a bit. You can't build them with Striker.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I'm thinking that Striker's rule on this isn't an inconsistency...especially since I see nothing in the main RPG rules to dispute it.

It's a blatant inconsistancy. There is neither any suggestion in the RPG rules suggesting that the Striker rule is used either. The fact it isn't mentioned speaks more for it than that it is ruled out.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
The Striker rules are meant (or at least capable) of being integrated with the RPG. There's a whole section on integrating Striker with Traveller starting on pg. 38 of Striker Book 2.

Guess what...that rule I quoted above in Striker was taken from the Integration With Traveller section of the Striker rules. That rule (that says a ship with a G rating the same as or less than planetary gravity) was written specifically for the Traveller RPG and it's integration with Striker. It's not a Striker rule sitting out there by itself. It's in the specific RPG section. Check it out yourself, pg. 41, Striker Book 2.

For integrating Traveller into Striker, not the other way around. Adding starship capability to Striker this way makes sense. Integrating Striker style miniatures combat rules into Traveller (an RPG) by changing the way starships work makes zero sense.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Then, there's the White Dwarf article. Written before Striker was published. Obviously, some other Traveller gamers were thinking about escape velocity and 1G M-Drives on Size 8 worlds.

Obviously. And just as obvious many more took a different path. As evidenced by the later explanations of overpowering thrusters and contra-grav lifters. I think there's room for more than one answer.

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
On top of this, all small craft ships in the Traveller Book, except the 20 ton Launch (which is described in the text as a life boat), is fitted with 2G+ M-Drives.

And what of the Hunter Launch? It's pretty obviously intended to be used for landings. And no wings. And what about the unstreamlined Sub Liner with it's Launch apparently intended specifically for planetary interface?

Coincidence?

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Here's what I think happened.

I think, in CT, it is the case where a 1G ship can only land on Size 7 worlds or smaller.

Then, MegaTraveller came along, and this little thing was changed.

I think they threw it out because it was too much of a hassel to deal with.

Here's what I think happened. Nobody thought about it.

And if they did it simply wasn't factored as a neccessary complication. The intent seems to be to ignore gravity except in space combat. Now that's an internal inconsistancy that has always bugged me. The travel time to orbit clearly ignores gravity but the vector combat rules clearly include it.

Anyway, I was just offering alternatives to rebuilding the entire game from the ground up (ooh, punny

) which is what you'd pretty much have to do if you start factoring gravity into every trip. Because you can't just look at the Gs a starship has, you have to figure out it's mass as well. Loaded and unloaded, and everything inbetween, every time the players approach a planet. Too much work, far easier to use the contra-grav field and ignore mass and gravity.

 

[Maladominus]

I already quoted Loren verbatim. What part of "and a maneuver drive rated for 2Gs" did you not understand? (just kidding)

If rated at 2Gs, then it operates at 2Gs in space and at 1G on a size 8 world.

Yes, this is the obvious conclusion. And given earlier in this discussion, Veltyen clearly demonstrated from past CT/MT documentation that a non-airframe vessel would be *limited* to a subsonic speed of 1000kph, Loren seems to follow that assessment exactly.

And as I earlier quoted, Loren's PDF gave an atmospheric performance of Cruising 750k and Top 1000kph. That pretty much correlates to a full 1G flight performance (under ideal conditions) on a roughly Earth-like world with Standard atmosphere, standard gravity.

I posted partial-screenshot for illustration purposes only, so I'm hoping this is in Fair Use. I'll remove it soon, as my point hits home.

 

[Maladominus]

I already quoted Loren verbatim. What part of "and a maneuver drive rated for 2Gs" did you not understand? (just kidding)

If rated at 2Gs, then it operates at 2Gs in space and at 1G on a size 8 world.

Yes, this is the obvious conclusion. And given earlier in this discussion, Veltyen clearly demonstrated from past CT/MT documentation that a non-airframe vessel would be *limited* to a subsonic speed of 1000kph, Loren seems to follow that assessment exactly.

And as I earlier quoted, Loren's PDF gave an atmospheric performance of Cruising 750k and Top 1000kph. That pretty much correlates to a full 1G flight performance (under ideal conditions) on a roughly Earth-like world with Standard atmosphere, standard gravity.

I posted partial-screenshot for illustration purposes only, so I'm hoping this is in Fair Use. I'll remove it soon, as my point hits home.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by far-trader:
"The 20-ton Launch". Not so newly released. Been kickin around my hard drive for a while. Definitely a great buy!

Ahh, I only follow PDF releases thru DriveThruRPG or RPGNow, which just posted that the 20-ton Launch PDF was a recent release this past week. Loren's OTHER PDFs --- the 30-ton Ships Boat and the 600-ton Liner (taken right out of the Traveller Adventure IIRC) have been out for many months. I 've had those for a while.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by far-trader:
"The 20-ton Launch". Not so newly released. Been kickin around my hard drive for a while. Definitely a great buy!

Ahh, I only follow PDF releases thru DriveThruRPG or RPGNow, which just posted that the 20-ton Launch PDF was a recent release this past week. Loren's OTHER PDFs --- the 30-ton Ships Boat and the 600-ton Liner (taken right out of the Traveller Adventure IIRC) have been out for many months. I 've had those for a while.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
"The 20-ton Launch". Not so newly released. Been kickin around my hard drive for a while. Definitely a great buy!

Ahh, I only follow PDF releases thru DriveThruRPG or RPGNow, which just posted that the 20-ton Launch PDF was a recent release this past week. Loren's OTHER PDFs --- the 30-ton Ships Boat and the 600-ton Liner (taken right out of the Traveller Adventure IIRC) have been out for many months. I 've had those for a while. </font>[/QUOTE]Heeeey! Wait a tic, you're right! This is new, I was confused again

Mistaking this for the 30ton Boat one. Sorry gotta go grab this now

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
"The 20-ton Launch". Not so newly released. Been kickin around my hard drive for a while. Definitely a great buy!

Ahh, I only follow PDF releases thru DriveThruRPG or RPGNow, which just posted that the 20-ton Launch PDF was a recent release this past week. Loren's OTHER PDFs --- the 30-ton Ships Boat and the 600-ton Liner (taken right out of the Traveller Adventure IIRC) have been out for many months. I 've had those for a while. </font>[/QUOTE]Heeeey! Wait a tic, you're right! This is new, I was confused again

Mistaking this for the 30ton Boat one. Sorry gotta go grab this now