FFE Classic Traveller Reprints

[Lord Iron Wolf]

As I recall a conversation with the Owner of my FLGS, Classic Traveller reprints are going to be coming out with a special promotion for retailers sometime in July. I believe JTAS III is going to be out at that time too.

I hope it happens, Classic Traveller has a reputation bordering on the horrendous with the gamers who have never tried it (or understood it!) FFE reprints are fairly cheap and would be easy enough for them to pick up and try them out. If they still b*tched about them at least they would have an informed opinion instead of hearsay.

Lord Iron Wolf

 

[Lord Iron Wolf]

As I recall a conversation with the Owner of my FLGS, Classic Traveller reprints are going to be coming out with a special promotion for retailers sometime in July. I believe JTAS III is going to be out at that time too.

I hope it happens, Classic Traveller has a reputation bordering on the horrendous with the gamers who have never tried it (or understood it!) FFE reprints are fairly cheap and would be easy enough for them to pick up and try them out. If they still b*tched about them at least they would have an informed opinion instead of hearsay.

Lord Iron Wolf

 

[kafka47]

Well, I for one do disagree with the above posters. Yes, the data from Genie is all screwed up and that the Marches data have caused enormous nightmares.

But, I still would like one canonical source for UPP data to turn to. If Malenfant and co. have done it. Great! Let's use their data and be done with the whole issue of UPP. One thing that I like in my Traveller universe is certainity. If Second Survey delievers that great!

I just wish that we could have a comprehensive Atlas for the reason that I have one at home...it is to find out where the heck I am and have library data on an Imperium wide basis. Not an impossible task.

 

[kafka47]

Well, I for one do disagree with the above posters. Yes, the data from Genie is all screwed up and that the Marches data have caused enormous nightmares.

But, I still would like one canonical source for UPP data to turn to. If Malenfant and co. have done it. Great! Let's use their data and be done with the whole issue of UPP. One thing that I like in my Traveller universe is certainity. If Second Survey delievers that great!

I just wish that we could have a comprehensive Atlas for the reason that I have one at home...it is to find out where the heck I am and have library data on an Imperium wide basis. Not an impossible task.

 

[daryen]

No, it is not an impossible task. However, it is not trivial, either. If it is to be done right, it would be very time consuming. Quite frankly, it take quite a long time to double-check everything, make sure it makes sense, make sure it doesn't contradict existing sources, or resolve contractions that already exist.

I have seen nothing in Mr Miller's performance with the Reprints to show he has anywhere near the amount of time that would be required to do this right. (This is not a slam or insult. It would appear he is a busy man with many interests and concerns outside Traveller.)

If such an effort is done wrong, it would be a complete disaster. Far from creating any certainty, it would do the exact opposite, and just create more confusion.

Besides, even if it was done right, I would rather see the time put into other efforts. Instead of the time-sucking Second Survey, how about the Modules Reprint, the FASA reprints, the Gamelords reprints, and the MT CD-ROM? I would much rather see any (or all) of those than the sure disaster Second Survey would be.

 

[daryen]

No, it is not an impossible task. However, it is not trivial, either. If it is to be done right, it would be very time consuming. Quite frankly, it take quite a long time to double-check everything, make sure it makes sense, make sure it doesn't contradict existing sources, or resolve contractions that already exist.

I have seen nothing in Mr Miller's performance with the Reprints to show he has anywhere near the amount of time that would be required to do this right. (This is not a slam or insult. It would appear he is a busy man with many interests and concerns outside Traveller.)

If such an effort is done wrong, it would be a complete disaster. Far from creating any certainty, it would do the exact opposite, and just create more confusion.

Besides, even if it was done right, I would rather see the time put into other efforts. Instead of the time-sucking Second Survey, how about the Modules Reprint, the FASA reprints, the Gamelords reprints, and the MT CD-ROM? I would much rather see any (or all) of those than the sure disaster Second Survey would be.

 

[Malenfant]

FWIW I'm thinking - with Flynn's help - about regenerating all the stellar data and the UWPs in all the sectors (like Zarushagar) that have too many tiny airless rockballs because of dodgy UWP generation algorithms.

Obviously we'd have to keep the UWPs of worlds that have already been described in any detail in canon, but I reckon any planets that only exist as UWPs are fair game for changing. Any real stars (e.g. Antares) would also have to remain as they are, obviously.

 

[Malenfant]

FWIW I'm thinking - with Flynn's help - about regenerating all the stellar data and the UWPs in all the sectors (like Zarushagar) that have too many tiny airless rockballs because of dodgy UWP generation algorithms.

Obviously we'd have to keep the UWPs of worlds that have already been described in any detail in canon, but I reckon any planets that only exist as UWPs are fair game for changing. Any real stars (e.g. Antares) would also have to remain as they are, obviously.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Well, my disappointment, while my own in the end, comes from an idea planted in my mind from reading the TML.

Several people over there, including LKW, specifically stated that the GEnie data was all non-canon.

I took this to mean that modern upcoming products would not base anything on it.

Now, make no mistake, I did not take the following as a statement of intent or a promise or anything of the kind.

GDWGAMES etc. is LKW's email on the TML.

I post two emails below, the second one contains LKW's wry response.

######################################
On 11 Jan 2004 at 15:51, ChrisOsborne wrote:

> See Below:
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com
> >[mailto:tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com]On Behalf Of Brian G. Vaughan
> >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:57 PM
> >To: The Traveller Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re: the Moot
> >
> >
> >>> I guess my views also stem from the fact that I see the various core
> >>>Imperial sectors a little differently than presented in canon. Canon
> >>>presents us with utterly random worlds in an environment settled for
> >>>thousands of years.
> >
> >It's been pointed out, by LKW and others, that the old sector data,
> >originally published on GEnie many years ago, and frequently reappearing
> >in many programs that display or manipulate sector data, is *not*
> >canonical -- largely because it was randomly generated, and there were
> >problems with the way they were generated.
>
> Ok, that is great news.

>
> Where can I download the real data so I can avoid basing upcoming
> decisions on non-canon data?

I don't think you understand. Other than what has
been published in *approved* modules and the like,
there isn't any "real data".

Most sectors have *no* official data. Period. Some
have star positions (from the dot maps in Atlas of
the Imperium). A few have more either because there
was a sector book published for them, or because an
adventure was set there.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
######################################

>-----Original Message-----
>From: tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com
>[mailto:tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES at aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:40 PM
>To: tml at travellerrpg.com
>Subject: Re: Learn to handle disappointment [was RE: [TML] re: the Moot]
>
>
>> Ok, that is great news.

>>
>> Where can I download the real data so I can avoid basing upcoming
>>decisions on non-canon data?
>
>The "real data"? There is no officially accepted list of UWPs for
>the whole
>Imperium, if that's what you mean. There are lists of numbers from
>varioous
>sources, but all of them are flawed to a greater or lesser degree.
###########################


In GTD, I note the statement that the data in the book is drawn on canon sources. Page 5, at the end of the first paragraph under Standards and Assumption.

Can I assume that the GEnie data has now been officially "canonized"?

Given that the only database I have is all GEnie data, I'd be ok with such a decision.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Well, my disappointment, while my own in the end, comes from an idea planted in my mind from reading the TML.

Several people over there, including LKW, specifically stated that the GEnie data was all non-canon.

I took this to mean that modern upcoming products would not base anything on it.

Now, make no mistake, I did not take the following as a statement of intent or a promise or anything of the kind.

GDWGAMES etc. is LKW's email on the TML.

I post two emails below, the second one contains LKW's wry response.

######################################
On 11 Jan 2004 at 15:51, ChrisOsborne wrote:

> See Below:
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com
> >[mailto:tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com]On Behalf Of Brian G. Vaughan
> >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:57 PM
> >To: The Traveller Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re: the Moot
> >
> >
> >>> I guess my views also stem from the fact that I see the various core
> >>>Imperial sectors a little differently than presented in canon. Canon
> >>>presents us with utterly random worlds in an environment settled for
> >>>thousands of years.
> >
> >It's been pointed out, by LKW and others, that the old sector data,
> >originally published on GEnie many years ago, and frequently reappearing
> >in many programs that display or manipulate sector data, is *not*
> >canonical -- largely because it was randomly generated, and there were
> >problems with the way they were generated.
>
> Ok, that is great news.

>
> Where can I download the real data so I can avoid basing upcoming
> decisions on non-canon data?

I don't think you understand. Other than what has
been published in *approved* modules and the like,
there isn't any "real data".

Most sectors have *no* official data. Period. Some
have star positions (from the dot maps in Atlas of
the Imperium). A few have more either because there
was a sector book published for them, or because an
adventure was set there.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at krypton dot rain dot com
######################################

>-----Original Message-----
>From: tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com
>[mailto:tml-bounces at travellerrpg.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES at aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:40 PM
>To: tml at travellerrpg.com
>Subject: Re: Learn to handle disappointment [was RE: [TML] re: the Moot]
>
>
>> Ok, that is great news.

>>
>> Where can I download the real data so I can avoid basing upcoming
>>decisions on non-canon data?
>
>The "real data"? There is no officially accepted list of UWPs for
>the whole
>Imperium, if that's what you mean. There are lists of numbers from
>varioous
>sources, but all of them are flawed to a greater or lesser degree.
###########################


In GTD, I note the statement that the data in the book is drawn on canon sources. Page 5, at the end of the first paragraph under Standards and Assumption.

Can I assume that the GEnie data has now been officially "canonized"?

Given that the only database I have is all GEnie data, I'd be ok with such a decision.

 

[Malenfant]

Well, if the GENII data isn't canon, then I'd happily and unceremoniously dump it in a flash. It's largely diabolically bad quality anyway - if we could just make totally new sectors from scratch that'd be much better.

Maybe QLI assumed it was canon?

 

[Malenfant]

Well, if the GENII data isn't canon, then I'd happily and unceremoniously dump it in a flash. It's largely diabolically bad quality anyway - if we could just make totally new sectors from scratch that'd be much better.

Maybe QLI assumed it was canon?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by kafka47:


<snip>

I just wish that we could have a comprehensive Atlas for the reason that I have one at home...it is to find out where the heck I am and have library data on an Imperium wide basis. Not an impossible task.

I, too, wish for such a resource.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by kafka47:


<snip>

I just wish that we could have a comprehensive Atlas for the reason that I have one at home...it is to find out where the heck I am and have library data on an Imperium wide basis. Not an impossible task.

I, too, wish for such a resource.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Well, if the GENII data isn't canon, then I'd happily and unceremoniously dump it in a flash. It's largely diabolically bad quality anyway - if we could just make totally new sectors from scratch that'd be much better.

Maybe QLI assumed it was canon?

Given the poor quality of the GEnie data, I too would "dump it in a flash". But at this point, I'll take anything I can.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Well, if the GENII data isn't canon, then I'd happily and unceremoniously dump it in a flash. It's largely diabolically bad quality anyway - if we could just make totally new sectors from scratch that'd be much better.

Maybe QLI assumed it was canon?

Given the poor quality of the GEnie data, I too would "dump it in a flash". But at this point, I'll take anything I can.

 

[hunter]

The UWPs for the Gateway Sector were drawn from the MTJ containing that sector. Ley and Glimmerdrift were drawn from the Atlas of the Imperium. Crucis was supplied to us from Marc with the Ley and Glimmerdrift UWPs.

If anything, the GEnie data is likely derived from those sources.

On changing the UWPs, the biggest problem you have with that is invalidating anything published using the old UWPs.

Hunter

 

[hunter]

The UWPs for the Gateway Sector were drawn from the MTJ containing that sector. Ley and Glimmerdrift were drawn from the Atlas of the Imperium. Crucis was supplied to us from Marc with the Ley and Glimmerdrift UWPs.

If anything, the GEnie data is likely derived from those sources.

On changing the UWPs, the biggest problem you have with that is invalidating anything published using the old UWPs.

Hunter

 

[Malenfant]

Hunter - what about the TNE:1248 sectors? Are those all from the Atlas of the Imperium?

If so, then it's rather more disturbing to hear that something that IS canonical is so broken.

 

[Malenfant]

Hunter - what about the TNE:1248 sectors? Are those all from the Atlas of the Imperium?

If so, then it's rather more disturbing to hear that something that IS canonical is so broken.