Fighters other than the Rampart

[Blue Ghost]

Another permutation; ground support.

A BB or DN in high orbit probably has better things to do than to train its high powered barbette on that machinegun (VRF?) nest willed with Zhos. A grav tank might do the trick, or, as per my grav tank thread, some form of hybrid tank-cum-gunship high speed platform. But, so far as we know, they aren't high performance craft. Ergo the fighter can come into play.

But not just a fighter, but perhaps something that can be deployed in orbit, go through re-entry and strafe or drop a load of hurt on that said same nest. Said craft would probably be jinking and winding its way through mountains and canyons, or flying at the edge of space before it dove into a high energy track, and executed a strike.

Some brave Zho with a pulse action LASER rifle would probably survive the first attack, stand atop the heap of rubble of his former now dead friends and home, and try to laze that TL14/15 F-X that's barreling away at high-mach. At least that's how it might work in a cinematic gaming session. And how about those Zho fighters hidden underwater that nearby inland sea or lake? Suddenly the opposition rises up and we got ourselves an aerial engagement taking place.

Where are the adventurers? On the ground requesting "Fire for effect!" and calling out grid coordinates? Or are they in one of those death-traps screaming through skies? Maybe they're split, and one or two of the band are piloting the fighters while the rest of the players are slogging it through the terrain?

I guess players can do that with the current rules already. But a high TL adventure could prove challenging in some instances.

Just trying to keep a little interest here

 

[steventirey1985]

Battleships and (I'm guessing - not familiar with the DN) dreadnoughts probably wouldn't be alone anyway. They would have escorts. The escorts would be doing the firing. And why send in a small ship that could get destroyed by ground fire when a single laser firing from orbit will do the trick? Especially since a fighters lasers could easily hit the ground target from orbit anyway.

Its like in Star Wars. Why do the droids and Clone Troopers all charge and practically get into melee range to fire? Only the stupid ones would do that. And then, those deserve to get shot. If a laser is accurate enough to hit a target a thousands of kilometers, why get within visual range to hit a machine gun?

Especially since laser weapons a line-of-sight, so any target in the air is fair game for anyone and anything with a laser rifle or something to fire at. Flying a ship down to give "air support" is nothing more than painting a target on the ship.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Oh I suppose, but if would also depend on where the target was. Given enough deflection that said target could be in the shadow of a mountain range nested in a valley above or below a tropic. And if that BB or other capital ship is in a equatorial orbit, then it might not be able to hit that target without a change of course. And what is the period of a BB's orbit? The shuttle, because of its size and mass, orbits the Earth once every half hour or so. A behemoth Sylean Federation BB might take a little longer to get into position.

Ergo, send in the fighters

 

[Starviking]

Didn't I point out that the missiles were not all-angle IR seekers?

You did indeed - I must have been conflating Sea Harriers vs. Pucaras in the Falklands with Mustangs vs. Javelins in Malaysia. Apologies.

And as for decoys and such, since I have been saying that all along (as has Blue Ghost and other proponents of effective Traveller fighters) I don't understand what you mean here. Maybe I'm just getting burnt out here.

A case of so much thread, so little time to absorb it all here. I think I'm in agreement with you 100%.

I get tired of the usual "NO YOU CAN"T BECAUSE IT"S NOT WRITTEN IN HOLY-WRIT CANON" people going to guns all over the "WE HAVE IMAGINATION AND WANT TO APPLY IT A 30-YR OLD GAME TO MAKE IT MORE FUN" people when we are just talking about a dang role-playing game.

And t'aint just on this thread, but it always seems to be over the fighter and other wargame v RPG aspects of this game and on this Fleet forum. My suggestion is for the "Holy-Writ" wargame types is to go play Traveller as a wargame and let those who want to pay it as an RPG and come up with new things to enhance an old game (something Marc Miller said to feel free to do in the end of LBB3 to Holy-Writ Types) with some new things to freshen it up and have more fun discuss it without getting all bent over it.

Ah, we're definitely in total agreement! Sorry for the confused posts!

 

[Icosahedron]

Battleships and (I'm guessing - not familiar with the DN) dreadnoughts probably wouldn't be alone anyway. They would have escorts. The escorts would be doing the firing. And why send in a small ship that could get destroyed by ground fire when a single laser firing from orbit will do the trick? Especially since a fighters lasers could easily hit the ground target from orbit anyway.

Its like in Star Wars. Why do the droids and Clone Troopers all charge and practically get into melee range to fire? Only the stupid ones would do that. And then, those deserve to get shot. If a laser is accurate enough to hit a target a thousands of kilometers, why get within visual range to hit a machine gun?

Especially since laser weapons a line-of-sight, so any target in the air is fair game for anyone and anything with a laser rifle or something to fire at. Flying a ship down to give "air support" is nothing more than painting a target on the ship.

This is true, but not as 'cool' as strafing from 100ft. Perhaps it's a matter of spotting? Ship sensors are designed to detect hot ships against the cold, dark background of space - they may not be so good at picking out a machinegun nest under an IR-bleed camo tarp against a background of steaming jungle. You might need to get up close and personal for that.

I have ground-attack fighters mounting Striker weapons alongside their space-lasers. Strafing is cool.

 

[steventirey1985]

This is true, but not as 'cool' as strafing from 100ft. Perhaps it's a matter of spotting? Ship sensors are designed to detect hot ships against the cold, dark background of space - they may not be so good at picking out a machinegun nest under an IR-bleed camo tarp against a background of steaming jungle. You might need to get up close and personal for that.

I have ground-attack fighters mounting Striker weapons alongside their space-lasers. Strafing is cool.

I don't know... a big Laser-O-Death shooting down from the clouds and scouring away the enemy sounds pretty cool too...

But the "Rule of Cool" does trump all other rules. You just have to modify the rules some to get a Traveller fighter that works like all of the other sci-fi fighters.

 

[sabredog]

Oh I suppose, but if would also depend on where the target was. Given enough deflection that said target could be in the shadow of a mountain range nested in a valley above or below a tropic. And if that BB or other capital ship is in a equatorial orbit, then it might not be able to hit that target without a change of course. And what is the period of a BB's orbit? The shuttle, because of its size and mass, orbits the Earth once every half hour or so. A behemoth Sylean Federation BB might take a little longer to get into position.

Ergo, send in the fighters

I think the fighter-bombers (or at least some such gunship module for a cutter) would be better than trying to hit anything on the ground from orbit with beams other than maybe the spinal guns. And then it would have to be the meson guns depending on the atmosphere (good article on this subject in JTAS #13 and using them against planets).

HG used to specify that missile bays were used for "ortillery" strikes and ships intending to be used for such had to have magazines of a given size (not 100% sure of the "size", though) so they would have enough for it.

But personally, I like the image of some FAC aiming his designator on the target and calling in fighters to blow it up and save the day....or fighter bombers cruising like hi-tech A-10's through the nooks and crannies on a world on search n' destroy missions in coordination with scout or marine recon units looking for those pesky guerrillas that keep blowing up the beer delivery cutter.

On the other hand if the Sylean behemoth could at least enter the atmosphere....wow, talk about close air support! I'd throw myself down and scream for mercy.

 

[sabredog]

But the "Rule of Cool" does trump all other rules. You just have to modify the rules some to get a Traveller fighter that works like all of the other sci-fi fighters.

How about....just throwing this out there since I've done it and it seems to work out ok - and it worked in Robotech - but just say some fighters can work in atmosphere because they have the control surfaces and other modifications the could need for the environment, and when so configured they reset the controls, drive specs, and other things that might hinder their in-atmospheric performance.

By that I mean 6G is not a very useful cornering velocity. Great for separation but not for in-atmo dog-fighting for a lot of reasons. Maybe the computer resets to compensate and the fighter flies slower, but becomes more maneuverable for it given it is not in vacuum anymore.

And special in-atmo weaponry might be designed as a result - like some oh, pulse-Gatling laser like the 16 lens pulse jobs I have on mine from Striker. They pour out a hellish amount of firepower, but they don't have huge penetration. They wouldn't punch through any other ship with more than armor 0, but that'll tear a fighter to shreds anyway. For heavier work the regular pulse laser on the fighter could work, but this thing also can engage 8 targets at once so it's useful for strafing, too!

 

[sabredog]

This is true, but not as 'cool' as strafing from 100ft. Perhaps it's a matter of spotting? Ship sensors are designed to detect hot ships against the cold, dark background of space - they may not be so good at picking out a machinegun nest under an IR-bleed camo tarp against a background of steaming jungle. You might need to get up close and personal for that.

Pshaw! That's what thermobarics, cluster bombs, and napalm are for, son! That's why they smell like victory!

But since those wouldn't be Rampart weapons just make a fighter with a .5-1 ton internal bomb bay and you got a right dandy fighter bomber.