One thing we're haggling over, maybe, is the definition of variant, but I think that that's the least valuable thing to be haggling over.
Robject,
Now now, I'm the one who regularly pulls the "Variant Roles Rabbit" out of my hat!
I don't think the variant explanation is going to work this time and it will take me a bit to explain why, so grab something to drink and settle in.
Mongoose has allowed sub-1000 dTonners to carry bays and that has been both a houserule and a suggested rules change for
HG2 probably since
HG2 came out. What we need to remember is that a ship design system is a
system and that changing one part has all sorts of follow on effects to the others. And when you change multiple parts, the synergy produces even greater effects. It's these synergistic effects that rule out the variant explanation.
Let's drop the
Broadsword example and use the humble 400 dTon patrol cruiser instead. It's an actual warship with a well defined role, so we can examine whether role variants can plausibly explain the results of the new design system(1).
Our Mongoose patroller can now mount a bay weapon. As you correctly point out, that will require a certain volume, a volume that needs to be made up elsewhere. What you're assuming is that there aren't other volume
savings in the Mongoose design process when compared to the
HG2 process.
The first volume savings has to do with energy points(2), Mongoose doesn't use them. A power plant only needs to be as big as the maneuver or jump drive, you no longer need to install a large power plant to produce energy points for those power hungry weapons or computers. more importantly, you don't need to install a larger power plant to produce the energy points you need for
agility.
That's right,
agility no longer exists. I'll be the first to agree that it was a troublesome concept. However, I'll also point out that agility more than any other concern drove the size of warship power plants. Agility gave a ship such a benefit in combat that designing warships whose agility matched their gee rating was the norm and ships with an agility lower than their gee ratings were seen as odd.
So, without energy points power plants - and the fuel they require - suddenly got much smaller for any given design. Build the classic 4gee/jump4/agility 4 patrol cruiser and build the Mongoose version and you'll have very different power plant and power plant fuel tonnages. Suddenly, you've got room for other things, things you don't need to provide energy points for either.
Let's talk fighters for a moment, the reason will be clear soon enough. Why don't fighters "work" in
HG2 above TL ~13? It's a mixture of things, right? There's a computer gap, a battery size gap, and their targets become more agile. In
HG2, fighters can't carry and
power a factor 9 computer and can't carry at all batteries "large" enough to harm big ships. There isn't enough room for all the things and the size of the things they need. This problem exists for smaller ships too, just to a lesser extent. They can have trouble carrying and powering large computers and, while they can carry more turrets, those battery factors are low too.
Now look at sub-1000 dTon ships built with
MgT's design system. They can carry any computer they wish because they don't have to power it, they can use a smaller power plant because they don't have to produce energy points or create agility, they don't need as much fuel, and, with the volume saved in all of that, they're much closer to carrying a bay weapon they don't have to power either.
I've done some back of the envelope calculations and I can build a vessel with pretty much the same abilities as the classic patrol cruiser but which also carries a 50 dTon
meson gun bay. It will be capable of jump4 and 4gees, have the same crew and carry a launch and a few marines, while still sporting turrets and a meson gun bay. The price is higher, I don't have a good handle on
MgT prices compared to
HG2 prices, but the patrol cruiser is essentially the same.
Essentially the same except for the
meson gun.
I can't plausibly see why any navy given the choice between a 400 dTon vessel armed with two paltry laser and missile batteries and a 400 dTon vessel armed with a meson gun that could inflict internal damage to the largest dreadnought would choose the missile/laser vessel.
Cost could be a factor, but cost would mean that the classic patrol cruiser is now the
variant - something we've been repeatedly told it is not - and the meson gun-armed patrol cruiser is the
standard. A navy would purchase as many of the superior, meson-armed vessels as possible only switching to the other laser/missile-armed vessel when budget considerations arose.
We're looking at a change as great as that between
LBB:2 and
HG2. Vessels built with the latter are simply far superior to those built with the former. When
HG2 came out, we had
Kinunir,
Leviathan, all of seven vessels from
LBB:2, and maybe a few other to "explain" and calling them variants still never really worked. Now, with the release of
MgT:HG we've got thirty years of ship designs to "explain" and calling them variants is simply not a plausible option.
It may be very worth our while to redesign all those pre-
MgT vessels. However, that means the work will have to be done and, when the work is over, the pre-
MgT will be essentially worthless. They'll be undergunned and will be carrying larger power plants to produce an ability which is no longer used.
Finally to respond to Hal's question a second time and after reading
MgT:HG additional times;
BUY IT. Buy it, buy it, buy it. I'm giving it a
7 now.
Regards,
Bill
1 - A design system in which I find many excellent features, by the way. Among many other things, I believe the sensor rules are better than
MT's clumsy attempt and
TNE's ubber-detailed process.
2 - I can understand and sympathize with the design choice which removed energy points. Even in 2009, RPGs are still mostly a pencil and paper affair and balancing EP requirements in a ship design is a very tedious chore. AMV's
HGS program has made the process easier, but
MgT doesn't have a Mongoose version of
HGS (yet) and making their players juggle EPs and power plant sizes was seen as too big of a chore.
