Future of 1977 -vs- Future of 2010?

[Lotherius]

... no longer wish to say anything on this forum, mods pls delete this message. ...

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Original Content Restored - Edit by Aramis:
Opening up a topic here that may or may not have been discussed here before - a quick look at the forum didn't turn anything up though.

I have seen reference that certain technological topics (specifically mentioned were Nanotech & Transhumanism) are considered "anathema" to the Traveller universe. That's been bugging me a LOT.

As we are all certainly aware, much of Traveller's technology is stuck in the 1970s and 1980s with inspirations going back to the 1960s.

I had a moment of this when a player was asking me to purchase "Commdots" to use as bugs. I looked in the book and it did indeed mention they could be used for that, but then I realized what they really were - BLUETOOTH HEADSET. I directed the player to another entry which was more appropriate for an electronic bug.

That got me to thinking - Commdot? Why not revise that in light of at least 2010 technology and call it a headset? But then beyond that is the lack of recognition of modern computing and networking in the system. Today almost everybody carries around a cell phone, and many of us have smartphones. I have a G1 running Android, and can access many programs and features that in Traveller I'd have to use several devices to accomplish!

Of course, the Internet as we know it wouldn't necessarily work well across interstellar distances. But couldn't the xBoat network "synchronize" planetary networks? For example, I could submit a "Google XBoat Request" to my computer for information not available locally, and it would send out requests just like a network broadcast on peer to peer, with a TTL specified in Parsecs (ie, only search up to 10 parsecs away) and in a few weeks, the information I was looking for is pushed back to my own computer using the xBoat network. Thus, I could request the latest economic figures from a system 17 parsecs away, without having to send someone in a scout ship there!

Of course, the concept is kinda there with various write-ups on imperial bank accounts and such, as well as the idea that if you've quit paying on your ship loans that the information will be passed around, but it doesn't feel "integrated" into the system.

Medically as well, it feels stilted. There are rules for regrowing limbs, which is obviously beyond current technology. Yet it is assumed that humans are just humans. Genetic engineering has uplifted Apes and Dolpins, but there are no options in character/race creation for genetically altered humans. To say that thousands of years from now we don't have this due to cultural conservatism is to ignore the fact that somewhere a pocket empire would be radical and go against the social norm, and that itself is a social norm!

Then we have the combination of nanotechnology and genetic/medical engineering together. Why would we have CommDots or even a "bluetooth" headset for a comm device a few metres away? Wouldn't/couldn't humans thousands of years from now have a subdermal, nano-bio-circuitry enabled communications device, which can directly interface with the brain's thought processes, visual and auditory cortexes, etc? So you can simply consciously request to know the latest economic data, and it would be downloaded into your brain, or at the very least, displayed directly to your visual cortex? Perhaps one could argue that the human mind simply wasn't ever able to be wired to accept direct knowledge downloads (that one would really screw up the game), but there's no reason we can't imagine with current technology being able to plug into the visual/auditory cortex to access data without need for screens or other such physical devices.

Ultimately, I don't see how these things are "anathema" to the setting - or perhaps the setting itself just needs to be refreshed. The idea of Traveller is still in place - travel and communication are limited by time, distance and high cost, leading to a fragmentation of authority in the future, which causes much conflict. That can remain in a key element of the setting. There's no need to ignore likely technological advances, however, or worse, even ones that we've already achieved.

Input?

 

[BlackBat242]

If you do that, you're not playing Traveller, you're playing Cyberpunk.


The Traveller universe is one that has its scientists actually asking the right questions... not “Can we do this?” but “Should we do this?”.

And answering “No, altering humans through nanotech, cyber-prosthetics, and radical genetic modification should not be done!”.

Yes, the concepts of what are now called Transhumanism & Nanotech were indeed around when Traveller was created... in Science Fiction as least... and Marc, et al decided NOT to include them.

I see no need to incorporate them, as Traveller works fine as is, for me. Perhaps it is not an accurate reflection of what irresponsible humanity might actually do to themselves in the future, but it is a universe I would like to live in.


The last paragraph of page 390 and first of 391 in this link are important here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CW..."should we do this", "can we do this"&f=false

 

[rancke]

One popular theory (well, it's popular with me) is that the Traveller Universe diverges from the Real Universe somewhere around 1979, with all the effort that in the Real World went into development of computers instead going into space travel. "Real Earth" in 2009 thus have computer technology two or more levels above that of Traveller's Earth in 2009. But we don't even have TL8 space technology.


Hans

 

[Tellon]

Yeah people look at the same thing with Star Trek -- as the timelines are a mess with current 2010 stuff

so we'd have to look at an alternate universe kinda thing --

---

But as far as Nanotech -- the work is already out there being done -- some of it quietly -- but the cat is already out of the bag -- so by popo pooing Nano, would be like Poo pooing Guass tech -- when the military is already experiemnting and making heavy weapons on board ship use.

 

[beowulf2044]

The medical angle in Traveller is, for me, the fact that with sufficiently advanced technology you'll be healed back to 100%, or close to it. Cyber-prothesis would be undesired when your natural parts can be re-grown. Unless you're some kind of brain damaged sociopath who'd actually want machinery instead of natural body parts.

 

[cajon5]

Hand waving...

Perhaps there was something like the Butlerian Jihad in the Dune-verse, explaining why they don't use computers or robots. Perhaps the Vilani had something that makes nano-transhuman tech disgusting to them. The Solomani absorbed this when they conquered the First Imperium. The Zhodani only want to concentrate on the psionics--at least the nobles only want to concentrate on psionics. That's what keeps them in power. Any prole who feels otherwise can get an attitude adjustment. Other races can have their own cultural quirks for not going down that path.

 

[aramis]

Yeah people look at the same thing with Star Trek -- as the timelines are a mess with current 2010 stuff

so we'd have to look at an alternate universe kinda thing --

---

But as far as Nanotech -- the work is already out there being done -- some of it quietly -- but the cat is already out of the bag -- so by popo pooing Nano, would be like Poo pooing Guass tech -- when the military is already experiemnting and making heavy weapons on board ship use.

Sorry, but wrong.

Most of the so-called nanotech of Science Fiction is impossible according to the laws of thermodynamics. Yes, there is nanotechnology (you are using nanoscale technology as you read these words... the processors). But nanobots have power issues that mean it will be slow acting. Or will be connected to larger power and material supplies, and not appear to be nanotechnology at all (as with computers)

Now, thermodynamics may itself be a subset of some larger set of conditions and thus have exceptions, but the odds of that are exceedingly slim.

In regards the OP's comments on commdots: they are much smaller than the average bluetooth headset, but yes, they do serve much the same role and are closely related. So is Uhura's Earpiece on STTOS (in fact, one company has a cellphone in that sized shell as a prototype). The commdots operate by bone conduction; they don't go in the ear. They probably do use a protocol very similar to a bluetooth headset, and could be replaced at lower TL's with same said headsets. But they are distinct from the headset because of how worn and how they transmit the sound.

 

[Whipsnade]

Lotherius,

Sorry, but no.

The kinds of nanotechnology you're asking about are only plausible to the thermodynamically illiterate. Nanotech does exist in Traveller and it exists as it does right now; As part of precisely controlled, environmentally sensitive manufacturing processes. Among many other things, your laser printer uses nanotech.

As for cyberpunk, or it's bastard stepchild transhumanism, a conscious decision was made not to take the game in that direction. The so-called "lack" of both is a design decision and not an error.

Scanning the thread, I see Wil has already corrected you commdot = bluetooth fallacy. When your smartphone runs off your body heat, weighs a adheres to the skin at the angle of your jaw, transmits sounds to your inner ear via bone conduction, and weighs a fraction of a gram, come back and talk to us about commdots, okay?


Regards,
Bill

 

[mbrinkhues]

Opening up a topic here that may or may not have been discussed here before - a quick look at the forum didn't turn anything up though.

I have seen reference that certain technological topics (specifically mentioned were Nanotech & Transhumanism) are considered "anathema" to the Traveller universe. That's been bugging me a LOT.

As we are all certainly aware, much of Traveller's technology is stuck in the 1970s and 1980s with inspirations going back to the 1960s.

I had a moment of this when a player was asking me to purchase "Commdots" to use as bugs. I looked in the book and it did indeed mention they could be used for that, but then I realized what they really were - BLUETOOTH HEADSET. I directed the player to another entry which was more appropriate for an electronic bug.

No, the Commdot is not a Bluetooth headset. As written in MegaTraveller the thing is a PAN (Personal Area Network) transceiver. You use that stuff to build a headset around it. Or a HeadsUpDisplay, a Camera, a Storage Box,... Each of these components might integrate a Commdot module and link to other devices and/or a central computer.

That got me to thinking - Commdot? Why not revise that in light of at least 2010 technology and call it a headset? But then beyond that is the lack of recognition of modern computing and networking in the system. Today almost everybody carries around a cell phone, and many of us have smartphones. I have a G1 running Android, and can access many programs and features that in Traveller I'd have to use several devices to accomplish!

Just because current PDA's include a phone does not mean it's the best way to go. Actually it produces quite a few problems (Build-In camera and security areas, battery lifetime etc.). In Traveller we add problems with compatible/existing networks and coverage.

With CommDots, HUD and VoiceRecognition around you can simply link the components on an "as needed" base. So on the TL5 planet you use a short range data-enabled radio as the communications component and link into the port net while on the TL15 world you use a "cell phone" type system. Both are small black boxes with no controls because that's supplied by another CommDot-linked element (Maybe your hand computer)

Remember: Current Systems are way to large since they need human-useabel I/O build in.

Of course, the Internet as we know it wouldn't necessarily work well across interstellar distances. But couldn't the xBoat network "synchronize" planetary networks? For example, I could submit a "Google XBoat Request" to my computer for information not available locally, and it would send out requests just like a network broadcast on peer to peer, with a TTL specified in Parsecs (ie, only search up to 10 parsecs away) and in a few weeks, the information I was looking for is pushed back to my own computer using the xBoat network. Thus, I could request the latest economic figures from a system 17 parsecs away, without having to send someone in a scout ship there!

It is implied in the setting that this happens. The "TAS-Bulletins" show that such a system is in existence and working for general news. And for individual queries you have the X-Net: X-Boats are transporting electronic information after all, not physical data so you'll contact an InfoBroker and he sends back his results.

Of course, the concept is kinda there with various write-ups on imperial bank accounts and such, as well as the idea that if you've quit paying on your ship loans that the information will be passed around, but it doesn't feel "integrated" into the system.

It's completely integrated. It's called X-Boat Service.

Medically as well, it feels stilted. There are rules for regrowing limbs, which is obviously beyond current technology. Yet it is assumed that humans are just humans. Genetic engineering has uplifted Apes and Dolpins, but there are no options in character/race creation for genetically altered humans. To say that thousands of years from now we don't have this due to cultural conservatism is to ignore the fact that somewhere a pocket empire would be radical and go against the social norm, and that itself is a social norm!

Actually Humanity has been there and tried that. Didn't work out all that great from a cost-benefit point of view. And there are quite a few human sub-races (some of them from Grandfathers days), some even with special rules for CharGen. They can be found in GDW's old Challenge (Answerin, Genoee etc.) for example.

And quite a few of the reasons for genetic alterration don't exists. No need for 0g Adaption when you have artificial gravity. No need to take whatever planet you find when you have a reliable FTL-Drive. And little need for "Saurons" when at the same TL you can build reliable combat robots.

Then we have the combination of nanotechnology and genetic/medical engineering together. Why would we have CommDots or even a "bluetooth" headset for a comm device a few metres away? Wouldn't/couldn't humans thousands of years from now have a subdermal, nano-bio-circuitry enabled communications device, which can directly interface with the brain's thought processes, visual and auditory cortexes, etc? So you can simply consciously request to know the latest economic data, and it would be downloaded into your brain, or at the very least, displayed directly to your visual cortex? Perhaps one could argue that the human mind simply wasn't ever able to be wired to accept direct knowledge downloads (that one would really screw up the game), but there's no reason we can't imagine with current technology being able to plug into the visual/auditory cortex to access data without need for screens or other such physical devices.

The question here is: WHY? What's the benefit to the "average trader" over a simple HUD?

Actually Traveller HAS Cyberware (2300AD rules can be adapted to CT/MT, the FFS Stuff is for TNE) but it comes with some realistic problems and dangers. So a "invisible" version is TL13+ for most of the stuff. While regrowth tech is TL9+, killing a lot of reasons for Cybereyes etc. from the start.

Add in an environment where EMP, stray radiation and similar nasties are not uncommon (aka Space) and there is a big danger of frying your brain through your datajack. A HUD is cheaper to aquire and easier to replace.

Ultimately, I don't see how these things are "anathema" to the setting - or perhaps the setting itself just needs to be refreshed. The idea of Traveller is still in place - travel and communication are limited by time, distance and high cost, leading to a fragmentation of authority in the future, which causes much conflict. That can remain in a key element of the setting. There's no need to ignore likely technological advances, however, or worse, even ones that we've already achieved.

Input?

What does it add to the setting? One can already do that stuff in the Traveller universe. Just cheaper - Use a Powersuit (Unarmored Battledress) or one of the actually quite common robots. Yes, Traveller has a lot of bots. What it lacks is the equivalent to "Nerdbots" like C3PO or R2D2. Same with a lot of other stuff. It's there but in the background. Because it's not important.

Examples:

+ The self-sealing Space Suits might or might not use Nanotech. Or powdered Darians. Or female Genoee tailors that stitch really fast. The only important thing is: They work!

+ Universal Antidote might be micro-robots running around. Or really an antidote. Or a RNA-Virus that does a mutation on your system. Again, who cares? It's background stuff a "I have" or "I have not"

+ Robots. Most of the time it's "the cargo get's unloaded" and no one cares who does it. There are canon cargo handlers since CT Book 8 and build by a MegaCon. So the market must be sizeabel. Again unless the stevedoers are part of the scenario, who cares?

 

[aramis]

Actually, Traveller has had a variety of Bots since 1985 or so... BoJTAS 1 includes a robot construction system. What it can't do is "C3PO" type brains in the Imperium; C3P0 is a cheap TL 13 humaniform body with a TL17 brain and programming... and only one world in the 3I can pull that off... Sambquis.

You do have some high autonomous bots that are passable as hominids, possibly even as humans, in some very limited ways. They make Bishop and C3PO look witty, but they can be given vague instructions and, within parameters, do the tasks they are capable of, and to a small extent, learn... but they are not bright. And moreover, they are not trusted. Further, they are rather expensive (hundreds of thousands of credits), and unreliable. Rich people's toys.

The best "person simulations" are pleasure bots... I'm minded of Robo-Buffy for the level of "personhood."

 

[Appelcline]

I think that Traveller's 1970s tech is part of its charm. Consider it a theme rather than an anachronism.

 

[mbrinkhues]

The best "person simulations" are pleasure bots... I'm minded of Robo-Buffy for the level of "personhood."

The main problem with the pleasure bots is that Genom currently has problems delivering their 33S models. Something to do with the bots and Ancient superweapons according to some rumors

 

[rancke]

The main problem with the pleasure bots is that Genom currently has problems delivering their 33S models. Something to do with the bots and Ancient superweapons according to some rumors

33S? Is that the model with the pelvic mounted meson gun?


Hans

 

[Tellon]

The Pelvic Mounted Meson guns eh? ..

sp rapid fire dependfing on the pelvic thrust motion? .. .lol

 

[John Snead]

If you do that, you're not playing Traveller, you're playing Cyberpunk.

The Traveller universe is one that has its scientists actually asking the right questions... not “Can we do this?” but “Should we do this?”.

And answering “No, altering humans through nanotech, cyber-prosthetics, and radical genetic modification should not be done!”.

Yes, the concepts of what are now called Transhumanism & Nanotech were indeed around when Traveller was created... in Science Fiction as least... and Marc, et al decided NOT to include them.

Hogwash. You have everything from the Computer Implant in the JTAS (hard too get more authoritative than that) or the various sorts of cyberware from Issue 13 of the Travellers' Digest. The problem is that all that sort of thing was fairly fringe to non-cyberpunk SF in the 70s & 80s, but in late 90s to modern space opera it's all standard fare and Traveller has not kept up with the times. I can definitely see that Traveller is a setting where humanity is still ultimately human rather than becoming clouds of sentient nanotech. However, look at some of the more recent space opera - Trowbridge & Smith's Exordium series had implant comms, (illegal, but occasionally used) genetic engineering and suchlike and you find similar things in Eluki Bes Shahar's Hellflower series. Both series have similar setting assumptions as Traveller, but they also fit in with modern ideas of space opera and not the space opera of 20-30 years ago. Traveller definitely needs to be updated to feel more like modern space opera and not antique space opera.

If nothing else, the baseline assumptions of Traveller were created before the modern commerical internet and modern portable electronics and look very archaic these days.


Here are some of my ideas:

I've been considering how precisely I would handle biotech and personal electronics for humans from my vision of the Traveler Imperium. The following is based upon a post I made on RPG.net about Traveller http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=350600. I consider my ideas to be a useful balance between making Traveller seem like it actually takes place in the future, in an advanced insterstellar society, and avoiding the difficulties of including actual transhuman technologies. As such, I consider the following to be an exceptionally conservative approach, and could easily see going with more extreme and higher tech alternatives. However, I also see a risk that more extreme and advanced tech might make the setting feel less like Traveller. The following is (to me at least) fits perfectly in a very mildly updated version of the Traveller Imperium.

Electronics
Whenever I consider advanced technology in an RPG, I start with considering what a PC is likely to be wearing or carrying other than their vacc suit, weapons or armor (if any). For characters with access to Stellar or High Stellar technology, I can see the bare minimum basics for "Travelling" being the following:

A device that is a combination of GPS with a detailed and updatable map database + an inertial compass for those few worlds w/o GPS, two-way radio (3-5 km range), cell phone, data network terminal, pda/pocket computer, chronometer, atmosphere sensor (including a pressure sensor + readouts or warning lights for smoke, carbon monoxide, high carbon dioxide, low oxygen, and several common toxins), media player, still camera, video camera, viewers for seeing in low light and possibly in infrared, as well as sunglasses for bright light and low-level magnification (perhaps up to 5x).

I can easily see this coming in at least three common configurations, depending upon both culture and taste:

For cultures and individuals who prefer to minimize the obvious impact of technologies on their life: Everything except the visual enhancements (night vision, IR, + sunglasses) fits in a large, thin wrist watch or a credit card sized object with a small full color or holographic display on the front, a few buttons, and it mostly uses vocal input. The visual enhancement is in the form of a set of something that looks like sunglasses that can fold neatly into a pocket, and which also work as a head-up-display that can perform various augmented reality functions when necessary, as well as showing personal wide-screen vids and providing night vision, magnification. and similar functions though cameras on the sunglasses. This character has easy access to both communication and data networks, but can also choose to ignore both when necessary.

For cultures where electronics are even less obvious: There's this interesting option: http://slothman.livejournal.com/140633.html

For cultures that prefer to fully embrace technology but avoid implants: All devices are linked in a personal area network. There is a computer that is built into clothing or jewelry, a pair of long-wear contacts that acts as a heads-up-display, a belt, necklace or similar device with an inertial compass and electrodes that provides the wearer with an innate sense of direction (the last is based on this fascinating article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/esp.html), digital cameras with a wide range of frequencies, light intensifiers, and fairly good magnification on ear-rings or some other pieces of clothing or jewelry. Input would be though a mixture of subvocalization and electrodes on jewelry or simply tiny sensors stuck to the user's scalp. A character wearing this sort of rig would be living in a significantly augmented world, with computerized facial recognition (linked with biographical info), as well as an awareness where every object the character owns is (due to miniature RFID tags in all consumer goods).

For cultures that prefer to fully embrace technology and have no problems with implants: Everything from the version immediately above, except that it's all implanted. Interestingly, the difference between the implanted and the worn version would largely be irrelevant to both the character and the player, since both provide full augmented reality and constant access to sensory and informational enhancements.

It's worth noting that looking at the way our own personal electronics are going, the first options is little better than current high end smartphones.

Biotechnology
In the Imperium I'm imagining, I would assume that at least 90% of the humans have these hereditary modifications, either because they are from Stellar or High Stellar worlds, their ancestors were from such worlds, or medical relief work has provided them or their ancestors with these modifications. I would therefore give this package to all PCs for free. This package should include various minor but significant enhancements like allowing characters to live to be 120 or so with access to Industrial or Pre-Stellar Medicine, 160 with acess to Stellar medicine and to 200-250 with access to High Stellar medicine, as well as immunity to most diseases, the ability to slowly regrow limbs and most organs, and perhaps double normal human healing rate. None of this would render PCs inhuman, but they make sense as tweaks that could have occurred over the course of millennia of high tech civilization. I’d also put a lower bound on Intelligence and Constitution, since I can see gene-fixes on both to make certain characters had a minimum of each.

 

[Droptrooper.]

Nice first post John, welcome aboard (even if you have been lurking for a few years, )

Something I can totally agree with, a Traveller reboot. Keep the major tropes but update it to keep it a modern and fresh background. I would hope MWM would consider something like this as even an alternate OTU for T5. That would really make a difference (and help sales too I think).

 

[Whipsnade]

Yes, we don't want it to become Cyberpunk, but to ignore current and potential scientific advance just strikes me a bit "Get Off My Lawn"-ish... things change and the game can change too.

Lotherius,

Change has always been part of the game and the game has changed over 30-plus years too.

Another point to remember is that nearly all what you and the others are suggesting takes place below the level of resolution for the PCs.

Let's look at the oh-so-usual complaints/suggestions:

Nanotechnology: As already explained, the type and kinds of "nano" normally suggested are impossible. There's going to be no "gray goo" as it's thermodynamically impossible.

Nano is going to be used in manufacturing and other industrial settings. However, when was the last time you ran a campaign in which the players owned a factory? How stuff gets made, as opposed to where they can buy it, is of little importance to players in a roleplaying game.


Personal Equipment: John made some nice suggestions in his posts. There's also nothing in canon that suggests they don't already exist.

You, he, and too many others seem to believe that published equipment lists are the end when they're actually the beginning. Traveller has routinely added "goodies" over 30 years and it will continue to do so. CT even explicitly stated that the equipment lists could not be extensive or inclusive and so added a credit-to-dollar conversion rate so GMs could easily import real world equipment into their games.


Robots: Robots have been part of the setting since the beginning and the supposed "lack" of robots has more to do with the perceptions of PCs in the 57th Century versus the perceptions of players in the 21st Century.

Robots are literally beneath notice. Robots are toasters and telephone poles. They are so ubiquitous that they are invisible. For example; A stevedore is not a guy who shows up to move shipping containers, instead he's the fellow who shows up to tell robots how to move shipping containers.


Biotech: Again, this is literally beneath the PCs' notice. How does 57th Century medicine work? We don't know, all we know is that it heals people pretty fast and pretty much perfectly.

As early as CT, you can get you ass all but shot off, have one characteristic in three reduced to zero, and still be back to normal in in three days of "rest". As early as CT, the game has had amazing drugs and low berths. There are no rules for strokes, heart disease, diabetes, birth defects, or any of the other many biological concerns that plague us now. Even senility and Alzheimer's aren't a problem as aging never effects the education stat.

What else can explain those things except biotechnology?


A Final Word: The questions and suggestions raised in this thread are nothing new. As the game is continually discovered or rediscovered by players, threads like these are started by well meaning people. Even the responses in these threads are the same.

This isn't a case of sour old poops telling people to Get Off My Lawn. Rather, this is a case of gamers telling other gamers to actually THINK instead of expecting each and every jot and tittle to be listed in a table, laid out on a chart, or handed to you in the text.

Biotechnology exists in Traveller. Nanotechnology exists in Traveller. Cybernetics, geneering, and all the rest exist in Traveller. They all generally operate below the level of resolution of actual game play. Rather than being the focus of game play, they're merely assumptions within the setting instead. They're a "given" and not a "wow". They're among those things that 57th Century PCs automatically assume exist, they're among those things that 57th Century PCs only notice when they're gone.

A PC in the Greyhawk setting doesn't goggle when magic is used; he goggles when magic can't used because magic is an assumed part of his world. A PC in a pulp setting isn't overawed by an automatic pistol while a PC in Forgotten Realms would most certainly be. Traveller doesn't focus on biotech, nanotech, and all the other things you mistakenly think are missing because they're all part of the assumed background.

This isn't a failure on the part of the game. It's a failure of perception instead.

Hope this will make you think.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Shonner]

A very "scientific" look at a possible future, thank you. Much to consider.

Yes, we don't want it to become Cyberpunk, but to ignore current and potential scientific advance just strikes me a bit "Get Off My Lawn"-ish... things change and the game can change too.

China getting nuked can slow down the future commericalization of comm gadgets. Only a few elites may be able to afford them. The rest of us will have to make due with older gear.

That business model is then followed for many centuries. Blue tooth exists, but it is very rare and very pricey and not compatible anyway with your standard issue gear.

 

[rancke]

Okay... so... we have lots of things going by Xboat, that's understandable. But the pilot has to manually deliver the 'information' by hand? There's no radio onboard capable of instantaneous encrypted communication? Surely you could argue there is, but some things have to be delivered by hand, but come on. Packages are delivered by hand. Information is most certainly NOT even today.

There are hard limits to the amount of information per time unit you can convey by radio wave. I don't know the details, but I think Wil does. Suffice it to say that the amount of information an X-boat is supposed to carry would take many hours to transfer by radio.


Hans

 

[Whipsnade]

Okay... so... we have lots of things going by Xboat, that's understandable. But the pilot has to manually deliver the 'information' by hand?

Lotherius,

Well, that explains many things!

No wonder you're confused. You're only familiar with the Mongoose version of the game and, quite frankly, that version ignores Traveller canon out of sloth, wretched editing, and deliberately willful ignorance.

Here are a few quote's from Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats which was published in 1980.

Page 8 describing the Express Boat System: Each is capable of jump-4 (four parsecs per week); it jumps, relays its messages to the station on arrival, and then waits to be picked up by a tender, to be refueled and sent on its way with a new load of messages. The local station, meanwhile, accepts messages, encodes them, and transmits them to a tender at the edges of the stellar system. Messages brought by the arriving xboat and intended for further down the line are consolidated with the new data and all are sent on to another xboat already fuelled and standing ready to leave.

Page 9 describing the x-boat: The standard bridge is complemented by a Model/4 computer, massive communicators, and message data banks.

Page 11 describing the tender: Second, they serve as a relay station between the planetary surface based message center and the express boat itself. Messages are forwarded to the tender for transmittal to the xboat just before it leaves for the next star system.

Same page and same vessel: The crew consists of six: a captain/pilot, navigator/medic, communications specialist, and three engineers.

There's no radio onboard capable of instantaneous encrypted communication?

You can't be serious. Do actually believe that Traveller's designers in 1977 were so completely ⌧ing stupid that they forgot about radios? And everyone else over the last 30-plus years was so completely ⌧ing stupid they forget about radios too?

All you've done is laughably misconstrued a poorly written passage in one of Mongoose's shoddy products into "evidence" that Traveller's x-boats doesn't use radios, comm lasers, or masers into "proof" of Traveller's "antiquated" view of the future.

In my line of work, that's known as a gross conceptual error.

I don't think there's a major revolution necessary in the system as some people (even perhaps myself) have proposed, just a rethinking of a few basic concepts.

As illustrated by your belief that Traveller doesn't have radios, your grasp of the basic concepts is wholly faulty, so your suggestion that they need to be rethought is entirely moot.

There Mongoose books do, on a third look, include many high tech innovations as discussed here.

Why don't you take a "third look" at Mongoose's own design for the x-boat? That design has a bridge which includes - surprise - communications equipment.

The ultimate answer isn't to simply say "Man shouldn't", but rather, "Could Man?" and "What if he did?".

Yet another example of your incomprehension.

Traveller's creators asked and answered the questions "Could`Man?" and "What If He Did" on many different topics. They then took those answers and fashioned their setting. Answering the questions differently would lead to a different setting, a setting that wouldn't then be Traveller.

That, to me has always been what Sci-Fi has been about.

Traveller is a subset of science fiction and not the whole of science fiction no matter what Mongoose wants to claim. The game was designed with a constrained range of settings in mind and was never meant to be "universal" in scope.

And to say that thousands of worlds of mankind collectively refuse to embrace some parts of technology... Well, that's fantasy, and that's not Sci-Fi.

As we've repeatedly explained to you, they have embraced those technologies, just not in the only manner that you can fantasize.

They've even embraced using radios, believe it or not.


Bill