• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Gearhead Challange! (Far different than the norm)

endersig

SOC-12
This thread is really a thread in two parts. 1.)discussing the design, feasibility and effeciency of Ship's Avatars. 2.)design a model Ships Avatar to base others off of.
To start off, a Ship's avatar is effectivly an android that this directly connected to the ships computers and genral functons. It serves as Navigator, Pilot, and steward of the entire ship. The android is connected to an AI profile in the main computer itself. This core AI contols a variety of droids, for general purpose work around the ship. The android itself can directly control the ship, but the core AI itself can function with out the avatar. They are connected, but not identical. Who wants to help me out?
 
Any particular system in mind?

LBB8:Robots would be my preferred option, but it should be doable using T20, G:Vehicles/Robots, or even the original JTAS robots articles (speaking of which, in Traveller MWM defines androids as being biologically based).

TL is going to be high...
 
Any particular reason that you want a single android to be special?

Certainly the idea is feasible. I personally cannot see the need, if you want to talk to a smart ship just look into the nearest screen or mug the nearest service-droid.
 
In Book 8 terms, the AI core wll be a "master" unit while the rest of the robot will be "slave" units; the Avatar will be a "slave" unit with a brain


What TL do you have in mind?
 
Going by LBB:8 it would have to be a minimum of TL17 for a true AI.
It depends on how much you read into the description of the Low and High Autonamous logic programs, which are crude AI's but can learn. In which case TL12 or TL13 become possible.

A starship with a TL13 brain, programmed with level 4 in every relevant skill is a frightening prospect. Especially if it can then transfer those skills via the master/slave link to its servant 'bots.
The Avatar would have to have enough of a brain to be autonomous in its own right, but it too could benefit from the skill boost the central brain could provide.

Makes me wonder what Hive Federation warships are really like ;)
 
T20 has a "blonde" AI at TL15 which could be useable.

Sure it's an AI with learning difficulties, but you make the best of what is available.
 
The "droid" design is fairly simple. It doesn't need to be any more than TL 15. In fact, it can probably be as low as TL 11. I've designed a 100vl droid that doesn't do much on it's own, but when controlled by the Ship's Computer is very useful. Here it is. I haven't designed the Ship's Computer that would need to control it. This would be the more advanced portion and would require a full blown AI, IMHO.
 
I was thinking the Classics, book eight. Also, to shed some perspective, i use the Andromeda styled avatar. the ship CAN: pilot in normal space, do manuvers on a voice command, give dyagnostics to its engineers, can use its own weapons, and serve its crew. Effectively, normal space Pilot, Navigator, Steward, and gunner (with slight human direction). I kinda see it as a master Core AI, with the neccesary skills. Money is no object, and i cannot see anything less than TL 13 possible working. The ship would need to listen to commands, but not much outside that. Also, yes, one android would be special, because it would be a Bio-bot, depending on the race that the Core AI is programmed with. It is for the psychological benefit of the crew, as well as making it easier to fit in with a general populace (the avatar can leave the ship) It would have both a Slave and Master unit (if possible) so it could control the ship, it could just control itself, or the ship can control it. If you need to go higher to TL 15, we would have to find a world for that to work. Frankly, this opens up some frightening possiblities. PC's could control larger ships. The limitation? the ship cannot be its own engineer. so PCs can have bigger ships, but not TO big.
 
The last time i got anywhere near getting this to work, It was already in the millions, and displaced about 2 tons. It isn't cheap, or easy to move around, but it is fun to play with. It (the master unit alone) should interface with the computer and power plant, but should have it's own back-up power supply, and PLENTY of armor to survive hits. This also calls for a change in the hit system. What would happen if a Core AI died? this creates the need for a "saftey" crew, who can either reboot the AI, or just control the ship on their own.
 
I think I'lll sit down tonight with Book 8 and design both a TL12 "Mother" model (as in Alien - not so intelligent but controls vital ship's functions, no "slave" bots, except for a few maint ones) and a TL15 "SHODAN" model (as in System Shock - intelligent, could run a space station all alone and control many "slaves"). SHODAN is like 'Rommie with an attitude


EDIT: just found the semi-official errata for Book 8 at http://traveller.downport.com/ct/errataB8robots.shtml
 
Blast! I was going to point out that you'd been watching too much Andromeda, that maybe you should just make it look like Lexa Doig, or maybe some other equally snide yet humorous remark, but it looks like some one else beat me to it.
 
Having a "Romy" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless you want it to be a part of the crew, and then I would make it a slave to the ship's AI rather than run the risk of letting it develop its own AI and muck with things, and with Virus running around, this is even more important. I've only seen a dozen or so episodes, so I'm no expert when it comes to hacking the show's mistakes into pieces.


The AI for the ship's human interface can be anything, and can be anything to anyone. Maybe the captain likes to see his mother, the first officer likes to see a paper clip, and the weapons officer wants to see a Borg. Ok, so when the AI addresses multiple people at once, it might be a little confusing, so you'd want a single avatar and to hell with preferences.

Depending perhaps on certain circumstances, your avatar might "wear different clothes". It might wear more martial clothing and have a different tone of voice when at battlestations, have another "mood" when doing unreps (underweigh replenishments, basically ship-to-ship transfers of supplies or fuel), and might even have a different "mood" for when the ship's in port and it's after normal duty hours (most people have left for the night).

More important than an avatar - which is only useful as a human interface device, remember - is being sure that human and AI can understand each other. If the captain says "forget it", the AI needs to be able to tell if he means this literally (delete all data on the subject at hand) or figuratively (I don't want to talk about it right now, or it doesn't matter). The Holy Grail of AI is to be able to speak to it like I would speak to you, and it would be able to determine the meaning from what was said (which is a hard enough job that even real people don't get it right all the time).

At lower levels of sophistication (generally lower TLs) the human will have to rely on predetermined command words. Maybe he has to start all commands by saying "Computer" in a clear voice, then has to pick a general action from a "menu" of possibilities, then give a more specific command. Examples: "Computer, weapons, all, fire at target number 3, fire.", or "Computer, look up, data relating to item: hedge row tactics, look up." or soemthing along those lines. A less sophisticated computer would have fewer such recognizable commands, a better one would have a number of aliases for commands, so the human wouldn't necessarily have to remember all commands, or could create his own.

The fun comes when your players start shouting commands at the computer and forget all about the proper syntax they have to use to get things done. The results could be the irritating Majel Barrett voice saying their command does not compute, or could be activating a function completely unintended. Note that you don't have to make up valid commands, write them down in a book, and make your players memorize them all (which their CHARACTERS WOULD have to do), just telling them that the computer only understands Pidgin and requires all commands be prefaced with "computer" is enough. (Mind you, I'm not saying Majel's voice is annoying, just when that stupid computer says it can't do anything, THAT'S annoying.)
 
uh.... right. Actually, while an the personal AI may "muck" with things, all you have to do is put in a failsafe, one that the AI doesn't know about. The big advantage I see with a humanoid AI that can leave the ship and act on its own is it is easier than smuggling your entire bridge past customs. This way, you can still order the ship around (well inside the same parsec, of course) and not actually BE on the ship. Plus, what IF the ship goes crazy, kills its crew, and roams the universe unchecked? sounds like a fun mission to me.
 
And with that every cautionary frankenstein tale goes unhindered.

Actually, while a crew may "muck" with things, all you have to do is put in a failsafe, one that the crew doesn't know about. The big advantage I see with a humanoid crew is that they can leave the ship and act on their own. This way, you can still order the crew around and not actually BE on the ship. Plus, what IF the crew goes crazy, kills its owner, and roams the universe unchecked? sounds like a fun mission to me.
Apologies to endersig, the quote could be considered to be unfairly butchered.
 
I have avatars in my campaign as a mainstay for TL15+ capital ships and defense systems. They become predominate at TL16.

I'm not certain that TL12 and below would effectively interface.

Savage
 
Going back into Traveller history, the Terrans had robot "aides" for their military commanders during the later Interstellar Wars period.

These would be about TL12 IMHO.
 
Originally posted by mega-traveller:
Can we use MegaTraveller Starship design rules?
I have spreadsheets and software that helps with designing the ship stats...
You can use whatever rules you like. I'd like it if we managed getting a CT version done, because CT is my forte, but this thread is for Avatars in general. BTW, is there a MT to CT conversion system that I just happen to know nothing about?
 
Truth be told, I think that a Contourted (i.e. metallic humanoid) Avatar form is far more economically viable than a pseudo-biological one; the bio version (with exactly the same performances) costs twice the AI core's cost, and about ten times a Contourted equivalent's cost.

So here is my attempt (Book 8 Design):
AI Core 71200-00-RS32D-00CDC(P) Cr5,861,700 190.13Kg Fuel=53.5 Duration=11.5 days TL=15
40/100 (Mesh)
Basic sensor pkg, Voder
Power interface, Brain interface, Master Unit, Radio (5,000 Km), TL-15 Holo recorder, Holo display, Elect ciruit protect
Pilot-3
Navigator-3
Gunnery-3
Medical-3
Engineering-2
Communications-2
Laser Rifle-2
Ship Tactics-1
Administration-1
Security-1
Infantry Ground Combat-1
Emotion Simulation
Notes: Power plant is a backup system; normally the AI Core operates on ship power (using its Power interface). Weapon, Medical and Security-related skills allow it to operate security, repair and medical drones ("slaves"; repair drones also have some programmed work skills such as Metalwork, Laser Welder-1 ETC). The AI Core is an immobile box installed into a starship; it includes a built-in holo-projector for communicating with crew members in it's immidiate vicinity and could interface with others through the ship's PA system, the ship's computer or its avatars and drones.

Avatar 55402-A2-NN32A-FDC4(K) Cr1,432,750 231Kg Fuel=28 Duration=3.9 days TL=15
20/50 (Mesh)
Basic sensor pkg, Taste sensor, Touch sensors, Voder
Brain interface, Slave Unit, Radio (5,000 Km), TL-15 Holo recorder
Valet-1
Ship's Boat-1
Survey-1
ATV-1
Grav Vehicle-1
Close Combat-1
Combat Rifleman-1
Infantry Ground Combat-1
Emotion Simulation
Notes: The Avatar is meant mostly for "away missions" and contains a version of the AI core with lower computational and memory abilities (and far less skills). While in the Core's range however, the Avatar could perform many skills quite admirably, including (but not limited to) being a VERY competent surgeon or engineer. Note that this Avatar is metallic in its appearance, but is capable of performing nearly every Human motion in a very percise way and with great strength.
 
Back
Top