Rules Only: Generic or Official Traveller Universe

[Timerover51]

I use the OTU rules to provide the basic structure, and then do the customizing. Aside from a totally different combat system, I am still play-testing the effects of changing the jump fuel requirements for ships. A similar situation exists with respect to cargo fees.

 

[rancke]

That's not really the issue I'm marginally concerned about. I'm wondering if the "meta-universe" quality is yielding (or has effectively yielded) to an official universe that is a prerequisite in order to play; i.e. almost a necessity in order to be familiar with the rules and to play the game itself, though strictly speaking it isn't required.

There's anecdotal evidence that some people have had the (IMO mistaken) belief that the OTU was mandatory. If so, the answer would seem to be education rather than catering to them. I have also heard about many private Traveller universes that had nothing to do with the OTU, so evidently there are also people who don't hold to that belief.


Hans

 

[Quint]

While I have played the OTU, I have for years played with a customized Traveller universe - the level of customization depending upon the exact campaign and group of players. Currently I'm actually experimenting with scrapping most of the OTU save for some of the names - still not sure how it will work...

D.

 

[Blue Ghost]

There's anecdotal evidence that some people have had the (IMO mistaken) belief that the OTU was mandatory. If so, the answer would seem to be education rather than catering to them. I have also heard about many private Traveller universes that had nothing to do with the OTU, so evidently there are also people who don't hold to that belief.


Hans

Well, not that the OTU is mandatory, but to me T5 feels as if it's leaning in that direction. Ergo I posted this topic to see what people think and feel

 

[aramis]

Well, not that the OTU is mandatory, but to me T5 feels as if it's leaning in that direction. Ergo I posted this topic to see what people think and feel

The OTU is no more mandatory in T5 than it was in CT-81 nor MT... the rules presume it's in use, and not using it may require making changes.

That said TTB actually says more directly about the OTU than does T5, and as one of those who equates the OTU as the core of Traveller, it doesn't provide me much to work with.

More importantly, it changes some elements which had been stable for 35 years. Nobility. The nature of Jump Travel. It even has some interesting causality issues.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm not really married to either idea, but I would like to know what other people think. I hate to sound like a broken record here, but I'm still of the opinion that CT was GURPS-like in presenting settings; use GDWs Imperium, borrow a setting from one of the big properties, or create one of your own but season to taste.

The rules do imply that the Imperium is here if it's needed, and do also seem to imply that when you start playing you'll be using the Third Imperium, but there's lots of suggestions to create your own setting and have at it with your friends and so forth.

I guess I'm wondering just how official the Official Traveller Universe is now that we're beyond rebellion, virus, and into T5.

 

[aramis]

I'm not really married to either idea, but I would like to know what other people think. I hate to sound like a broken record here, but I'm still of the opinion that CT was GURPS-like in presenting settings; use GDWs Imperium, borrow a setting from one of the big properties, or create one of your own but season to taste.

The rules do imply that the Imperium is here if it's needed, and do also seem to imply that when you start playing you'll be using the Third Imperium, but there's lots of suggestions to create your own setting and have at it with your friends and so forth.

I guess I'm wondering just how official the Official Traveller Universe is now that we're beyond rebellion, virus, and into T5.

Except that GURPS was, from the get go, almost completely devoid of setting materials; it's an intentionally generic game. It avoids setting materials and most setting assumptions... Quite unlike Traveller, which even in the 1977 edition, has some very clear setting elements disguised as game rules (Nobles, the rules for T&C, the nature of Character generation). You literally cannot do a lifepath generation system without implying setting.

As for the OTU setting: the timeline, including virus, is in T5. It's not going away.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sure. We'll see what the pole says.

 

[MCEvans]

The OTU background is great (I hate reinventing the wheel)
Background may not (most likely) not survive contact with a group of PCs, so I see every instance of Traveller bring played, no matter how close you want to keep it, it will be different than MM's vision of Traveller and become Your Traveller Universe.
Live with it, enjoy it and embrace it because it's all yours.

 

[DonM]

Background may not (most likely) not survive contact with a group of PCs, so I see every instance of Traveller bring played, no matter how close you want to keep it, it will be different than MM's vision of Traveller and become Your Traveller Universe.

And this is as it should be.

 

[Limburger59]

Well, the game seems to have evolved specifically over the last 20 years. In the LBB days, and even with MT's richly defined background, I always saw the OTU as a "metauniverse", where you had elements you could use to fill in gaps in your own universe creation, while ignoring whatever you wanted.

But, I'm thinking I have to shift my own thinking on this, and come to grips with the notion that there is an OTU that people like, use, and want more of. I'm wondering if that's true, or there are still people like me who still see Traveller as a generic sci-fi RPG with a background that's there should you choose to use.

I think this is kind of an important question here. I think it has implications for fans like me, and newer players.

I appreciate the "metauniverse" and I feel it is essential that there be a shared view of the Imperium and the physics. I don't care to argue whether it is time for Jump-7; I'm content with the shared acceptance of J-6, and the implications on communications, the military, and the nobility. I can go anywhere on Terra and odds are I can join a game without being significantly blindsided.

Has anyone defined what encompasses the Official Traveller Universe as far as this discussion is concerned? The Zhondani's philosophy of psionics is OTU, but I don't believe that A Mission to Mithril has to be run on Mithril for OTU. The 100 diameter rule - yes; slugthrowers - yes; Bwaps - yeah; Strephon's assasination - ok. The Virus - I play before it appears...

What I don't want is to be micro-managed and looking at Library Data and the MT Imperial Encyclopedia I don't believe I am. I believe this is what many of us are actually concerned about. Right?

 

[Piper]

. . . I'm wondering if that's true, or there are still people like me who still see Traveller as a generic sci-fi RPG with a background that's there should you choose to use.

I think this is kind of an important question here. I think it has implications for fans like me, and newer players.

I purchased the LBB set in 1977 (my first RPG, in fact) and was simply amazed at the worlds of opportunity it opened. Yes, you had to do a lot of work, but you could create all sorts of science fiction settings. I was never interested in Star Trek or Star Wars; my interests ran (and still run) into settings like James White's "Hospital Station", David Drake's "Cluster Command", Piper's Federation and Empire settings and Mike Resnick's Frontier.

So, yeah; there may be a few sandboxers still hanging around.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I purchased the LBB set in 1977 (my first RPG, in fact) and was simply amazed at the worlds of opportunity it opened. Yes, you had to do a lot of work, but you could create all sorts of science fiction settings. I was never interested in Star Trek or Star Wars; my interests ran (and still run) into settings like James White's "Hospital Station", David Drake's "Cluster Command", Piper's Federation and Empire settings and Mike Resnick's Frontier.

So, yeah; there may be a few sandboxers still hanging around.

Most excellent.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I pirated the following from 2001 while combing for a salient thread regarding "future versions of Traveller"

Game is not over.

"Published" Traveller is the 3rd Imperium.

I know of a few 'long' term games being played in alternate Traveller universes. Some of these have been on the web since before GDW went away.

I know of a few more games that are set outside the Imperium.

Those things said. Traveller is

• 
  <LI>a few sets of rules.
  <LI>a setting.

Classic Traveller, Megatraveller, Traveller the New Era, and Marc Miller's Traveller fit both definitions. GURPS Traveller and d20 Traveller fit both definitions. The assorted homebrew, house rules games out there fit both definitions. And lots of them share b.

Can you tell I'm an inclusive sort?

------------------
mark ayers n2s@qwest.net , philosopher serf, editor of n2s; the journal for an empty mind

[This message has been edited by n2s (edited 24 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by n2s (edited 24 June 2001).]

Many apologies for unwarranted necromancy, but I felt this was pertinent to this thread.

Here's the thread by long time user PinkSlipe; http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=736

 

[Blue Ghost]

Another thread in the archive, though I'm only posting the link for the sake of reading as it pertains to this thread;

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=509

 

[Blue Ghost]

And yet another thread that I think may be pertinent to this thread, but otherwise is just interesting to read about people's perspectives the evolution of the game, and how people see the setting evolve;

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=588&page=4

Note; I am currently scouring the archives for a thread on the evolution of Traveller's next incarnation, what people wanted in it, what it would be called, and what worked in the past, and as well the voices of misgivings of another edition.

All of that relates to the setting and how people construct their personal settings from the game's presentation. The poll seems maxed out, but I think it worthwhile to explore the topic some.

Another good discussion link;

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=71

 

[mike wightman]

When T20 was going well Hunter mentioned that he had asked Marc about doing a classic Traveller plus game - CT with some of the updates from T20 and a 2d6 mechanic.

A few of us started writing post after post about what we would do with CT+, and at some point I wrote about CT lite.

When T20 broke up and MJD went off to write Avenger Enterprises Traveller stuff through CommStar games one of the works in progress was Avenger Classic Traveller which was built very much for the CT+ movement.

This never got past draft documents as Mongoose came out of left field with their licence and Mongoose Traveller was born, doing pretty much what the CT+ crowd had wanted in re-imaging and updating CT.

And all the while MWM was beavering away with T5...

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, that just goes to show you that development of any product, even a public game like Traveller, usually happens behind closed doors.

I have the Mongoose basic rule book, and it looks almost like what I wanted a new T5 to look like.

One of the threads I was trying to find was where I vented my spleen on what I would like in a new version of Traveller, and yes, this does relate to setting.

In that post I stipulated that I really wanted an updated Task System as per MT, but I liked the combat system in CT/Snapshot, and that the personal combat system would be much improved if it could include the hit/penetration mechanic of MT, but more diverse and straightforward as per damage assesed by Die Rolls instead of assigned damage values.

Also in that post I stipulated that, as a consumer of the game, I liked the openess of Traveller. Here's me doing my broken record imitation (does anyone play records anymore?), but the magic of Traveller was that you didn't have to use the OTU. It was "optional" to the point where you used the OTU in char gen, but only as a framework to create your playing piece. You may have gone through the Imperial Navy, Marines, Army, or signed on with the merchants, but that those charts represented Your Traveller Settings equivalent of the OTU char-gen process. That is even though the Char-Gen system said you were going through the Imperial Navy, in your setting you might have been going to Star Fleet Academy or some Ivy League School before you get in your rocket ship to fight Ming the Merciless.

That would have been my ideal Traveller "new edition" game, whatever it was called. When I generated scenarios for my players, I grabbed things from COSMOS (the Galaxy rise shot at the end of an episode), I grabbed things from Superman (the scene where the Helicopter comes to disaster, only I replaced it with an Apache Gunship hijacked by terrorists who shot up the Penthouse of the Starport hotel, where my players were doing a Special Ops hostage rescue...cool huh?), I grabbed things from Buck Rogers, the Man from Atlantis, from the two big boys; Trek and Wars, from anything I could, but I didn't bring all the baggage that came with them; i.e. the setting. I just grabbed elements and threw them into the mix, and my players had a blast.

Now, with the OTU, and as the game gets more "attached" to the OTU, I'm thinking there's a chance that its continued growth might be stymied in terms of promoting the idea that you don't have to use the OTU, and that because of that, a portion of new players might be put off. As a hobbyist and prospective author, I like Traveller and I want it to succeed.

Ergo this thread.

 

[aramis]

When T20 was going well Hunter mentioned that he had asked Marc about doing a classic Traveller plus game - CT with some of the updates from T20 and a 2d6 mechanic.

A few of us started writing post after post about what we would do with CT+, and at some point I wrote about CT lite.

When T20 broke up and MJD went off to write Avenger Enterprises Traveller stuff through CommStar games one of the works in progress was Avenger Classic Traveller which was built very much for the CT+ movement.

This never got past draft documents as Mongoose came out of left field with their licence and Mongoose Traveller was born, doing pretty much what the CT+ crowd had wanted in re-imaging and updating CT.

That "Pretty much" was "way too much" for many, and "WTF is this?" for many more.

MGT looks very little like what was being asked for at the time.

MGT uses Bk2 ship design; most of the people wanted Bk5 ships.
MGT uses a unique character generation; people wanted CT or MT CGen.
MGT uses a unique trade system; there was a lot of push for the t20 trade system (which was a bk 2 derivative), and failing that, Bk2.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I don't want to get too off topic on my own poll here, but I really liked the char-gen of classic Traveller. It was straight forward and quick. Why was it altered? Did the new setting of Rebellion, Virus and what not demand it?