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Have you ever been to Startown?

agorski

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The closest thing to a startown that I've been to is Nogales, Sonora. It's a port of entry and seems seedy enough. Back in college days I visited the B-47 Club there, a local bordello, which was supposedly named after the USAF crews that frequented the place. It had the requisite Federale standing outside to keep things under control.
 
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Wow! A "local!" Welcome.

Anyway, Nogie is what a C or D "starport" might be on some world with a law level of 8 or 9 but in reality its more like anything from 3 up depending on who you are and the level of corruption you can get away with. Paying the mordita may or may not work depending on who you are.

Hong Kong or Singapore is more my idea of a class A or B starport, particularly on high population worlds.

On low population ones I'd think of more like say, the Denver airport. It's in the middle of nowhere and you have to go elsewhere to get lodging, food, or whatever.
 
Sounds reasonable. I was ignoring the whole starport thing and just thinking about the local startown next door.
 
If one subscribes to the idea that older startowns are a reflection of the stellar neighborhood instead of the world itself, then the experience of a startown can be had in a number of places. The one that comes to mind near where I grew up is downtown Oakland, CA. RIGHT next to the cargo port in one direction, a few blocks from the small boat docks in another, with a once bustling Navy base and a very busy international airport just a little further down the road. Downtown visibly changes neighborhood flavor every two blocks or so, with old warehousing changing to lofts and conversion businesses, a local transit hub, Chinatown, Admin Center, new gentrification, old gentrification, new squalor, old squalor, a food court-like block that changes rapidly, and more bars than you can visit in a week.
 
If you just want a "movie" version it'd be Olongapo next to Subic Bay in the PI. Now there's a real Hollywood version of a startown.

"Fleet's in!"

The main street is nothing but cheap restaurants, dive bars, and night clubs packed with sailors (before the US left). You want to get a better exchange rate on money you go to the guy at the back of the music store with 50's or 100's and you get about 30% more PI pesos...

The bars and clubs all have girls for... whatever... and you can tell the mama san you're not interested and for them just to make sure you get a steady supply of $ .10 beers for about $10 in her hand.

Yea, been there, done that too...
 
Startowns? Where to begin...

Olongapo, Angel City (which was actually destroyed by a volcano!), Callao, Macao, Hong Kong, Singapore, Karachi, Guayaquil, Nauru, Chittagong, Hamburg, Amsterdam, Shanghai, Oakland, Bayonne, etc., etc., etc.
 
Startowns can be individual, especially if it serves several roles or integrates several functions, such as administrative centre, financial hub, cultural nexus, political capital, aristocratic residence, oligarchic magnet, dissident nursery, economic refuge.

You know, Londinium.
 
The Tel-Aviv "New" Central Bus Station and its area. The station itself is an enormous, if grotesque, concrete monstrosity, which used to be the largest bus station in the world until recently. Construction began in the 1960's and went apace until 1993, in the meantime its promise of an economic paradise with a massive influx of shoppers for all the concessions faded, many people lost the money they put into purchasing shops there. The result is a huge, partially abandoned structure - almost an arcology in size - in bad maintenance. The two lower floors - which are underground - are almost completely abandoned. Instead, all sorts of shady businesses filled the "ecological" vacuum - pawn shops, cheap phone shops, some street food places, alongside several legitimate businesses. There is also a problem of petty crime and drug use. Meanwhile, this is still a very major transit hub, as most bus lines going in or out of Tel-Aviv stop or start there.

The better part of the station is actually the area where Philipino immigrants opened several shops, which are well taken care of and have very good imported Asian food and ingredients for decent prices - which you can hardly find elsewhere in Israel except for very upscale and expensive places.

Outside the station is a run-down international area. This area mostly holds immigrants from Asia and asylum seekers from East Africa, as well as their businesses. This is where "guest workers", immigrants, and asylum seekers go to shop or to relax after their long work hours. They have shops, restaurants (some of them very affordable and good), and bars/hookah places. Many asylum seekers also live in the area, where rent is less expensive than in the rest of Tel-Aviv. City hall invests very little in the infrastructure and most buildings are old.

There is, of course, a major crime problem in the area, though most of it is run by Israelis who were involved in criminal activities even before the immigrants and asylum seekers came. This has several brothels ("massage parlors" and "pay-per-hour hotels"), including a very conspicuous one which is a block away from the local police station, and a good number of drug users (and pushers).

As usual for a transit hub in Israel, this area is full of soldiers going to and from their bases. They are a major source of business. A good number of them, of course, carry assault rifles - as the IDF issues guns to soldiers on leave in many cases. While there is a nearby police station, you rarely see civilian "blue" cops in the station itself. Instead, due to the recent wave of terrorism, the government has posted Border Guards at some of the entrances to the station to defend against attacks. These are conscripts belonging both to the IDF and the police at the same time, with law enforcement powers. The ones posted at the station are usually young women around the age of 18, fresh out of boot camp and basic Border Guard training, armed with assault rifles. They rarely deal with crime but rather "guard against terrorist attacks" - in practice they spend their long shifts playing with their cellphones, or chatting with the station's security guards posted nearby. From time to time they inspect people who look "suspicious" to them for their papers and usually look as if they feel very "important" when they do so.

In short, this is how I'd imagine a Starport-D or even Starport-C startown in the Hard Times or The New Era.
 
Not really, I've been to far more wilderness (though the area around O'Hare is certainly interesting, Midway to a lesser extant). My spouse served during Just Cause and GW1, and as such has spawned a series of in-game jokes about "chicken dinners" (evidently the going rate for companionship in Panama City at that time).

The more I think about it though, Chicago is an interesting model - two airports, (one massive) plus rail, plus inland sea docking - plus canals. Former stockyards. Lots and lots of ethnic areas. Destination city for immigrants. Nearby Naval base. Organized crime on several levels. It's probably a great example of a relatively civilized starport (perhaps a B rather than an A) at a medium law level and a resultantly blurred XT line. I've probably spent far too much time in some of the seedier parts of Chicago - it actually makes a good example that isn't "3rd World"-esque.

D.
 
In order to have a viable Startown, you would have to have a fair amount of traffic at the starport. Would a Class D have enough traffic, say several starships or spaceships a day, to support a StarTown? Clearly, a Class E starport is not going to have a Startown.

Frontier installation. Essentially a marked spot of bedrock with no fuel, facilities, or bases present.

I would say that a Class D starport, with a Scout Base present, would likely have a Startown. I am not so sure about a Class D without a Scout Base.

Poor quality installation. Only unrefined fuel available. No repair or shipyard facilities present. Scout base may be present.

A Scout Base would imply that there are a considerable number of Scouts always at the port.
 
What you need for a Startown of the sort the OP suggests, is three things:

* Lots of locals and a steady stream of casual visitors.

* A pile of disposable cash.

* A police force / law enforcement / government that doesn't pry into the seedier side of life to heavily.

So, yes, you could have a startown in a D system. It could be populated by prospectors and miners of the system asteroid belt and they spend their hard earned credits to the last penny every time they hit town. The town is populated with the usual list of loose morals and miscreants and the law only gets involved if things look like they're getting deadly.
 
See Enoki's earlier post. Yes, the Denver airport is in the middle of nowhere and you do have to travel to get to anywhere useful. However, they have opened a Westin Hotel in the terminal complex. It is like a TAS facility at an isolated starport. You pay for the comfort but there are good rooms, restaurants, and bars. If you are stuck at DIA / DEN, waiting for your next jump it is worth a visit.

Vancouver is my idea of a nice startown when arriving by boat. It is a working port with a number of shops catering to travelers.
 
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What you need for a Startown of the sort the OP suggests, is three things:

* Lots of locals and a steady stream of casual visitors.

* A pile of disposable cash.

* A police force / law enforcement / government that doesn't pry into the seedier side of life to heavily.

So, yes, you could have a startown in a D system. It could be populated by prospectors and miners of the system asteroid belt and they spend their hard earned credits to the last penny every time they hit town. The town is populated with the usual list of loose morals and miscreants and the law only gets involved if things look like they're getting deadly.

If they spend every credit, exactly how do they afford to keep their ships operational?
 
See Enoki's earlier post. Yes, the Denver airport is in the middle of nowhere and you do have to travel to get to anywhere useful. However, they have opened a Westin Hotel in the terminal complex. It is like a TAS facility at an isolated starport. You pay for the comfort but there are good rooms, restaurants, and bars. If you are stuck at DIA / DEN, waiting for your next jump it is worth a visit.

Vancouver is my idea of a nice startown when arriving by boat. It is a working port with a number of shops catering to travelers.

So is Dulles International Airport outside of Washington, D. C., and Baltimore-Washington is about halfway between Baltimore and D.C. without a lot around it. Mitchell in Milwaukee does have one road with restaurants, hotels, and a few bars to the west of the airport, but to the north and east are residential neighborhoods, while there is not a lot to the south.
 
If they spend every credit, exactly how do they afford to keep their ships operational?

Bailing-Wire.jpg


duct-tape-400.jpg


How else...? :rofl:

But we can ask an expert:

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I am aware that Duct Tape has many uses, in fact both of my children have Tee Shirts stating that fact. And I have had personal experience with baling wire during the summer I spent on my uncle's diary farm in northern Wisconsin. I loaded a lot of hay bales unto the hay wagon and then into the barn loft that summer. I also discovered the delectability of corn dogs at the county fair.
 
I worked as a computer admin out at Stennis NASA in Mississippi. I could see the test stands, and they let us know when a test was going to take place. The test stands are, the ones I could see, about the same size as the gantrys at the Cape. Due to my work hours, I never got to watch an engine test.

You certainly knew when one was going on. The building I was in slightly shook. All the station could see the plume of exhaust gases.

Out on I-10 highway is a set of small quick stop gas and grocery places. Some miles from there is a housing development with a golf course and a restaurant.

I tried to talk my parents into going to Cape Canaveral for a launch pre-1965, but they didn't want to drive that far for a 'short event like that'.

I did get to see the Project Echo dome in Maine. I have a photo of it somewhere. ( Orbiting aluminized balloon used for about 15 minutes per orbit to bounce telephone signals across the Atlantic Ocean.)
 
Ah Nogales. Went there on a day trip for high school Spanish 3/4 back in 1987 or so. Definitely has some elements of Startown.

For one, there's a clear Extrality Line marking where a starport would be -- in this case, the Estados Unidos, of course.

For another, it was quaint. We stayed in the not-run-down areas and enjoyed playing turista.



Now if you want seedy, you want Lukeville (i.e. "Gringo Pass"), and its alter ego, Sonoyta.
 
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