Have you ever been to Startown?
- Thread starter agorski
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BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Hmmm... I was there for 6 weeks in 1984, and two 2-3 day visits in 1987.
Yes, that will always be my view of a "startown"!
Yes, that will always be my view of a "startown"!
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
I don't know about Drakon's experience.
Mine was a land-based deployment of VMA(AW)-242 (Marine Corps A-6E Intruder all-weather attack aircraft) to Naval Air Station Cubi Point (on the south side of the entrance to Subic Bay) in 1984, and in 1987 aboard CV-61 USS Ranger (aircraft carrier) with VMA(AW)-121 (also A-6Es).
Note: VMA(AW)-242's name and insignia was "Black Bats".
Also note that every bar in Olongapo had prostitutes, and there were many more available on the street and elsewhere - and many stores selling cheap merchandise, etc.
Olongapo was on the east side of the river from Naval Base, Subic Bay - which itself was about 3 miles east of NAS Cubi Pt.
Mine was a land-based deployment of VMA(AW)-242 (Marine Corps A-6E Intruder all-weather attack aircraft) to Naval Air Station Cubi Point (on the south side of the entrance to Subic Bay) in 1984, and in 1987 aboard CV-61 USS Ranger (aircraft carrier) with VMA(AW)-121 (also A-6Es).
Note: VMA(AW)-242's name and insignia was "Black Bats".
Also note that every bar in Olongapo had prostitutes, and there were many more available on the street and elsewhere - and many stores selling cheap merchandise, etc.
Olongapo was on the east side of the river from Naval Base, Subic Bay - which itself was about 3 miles east of NAS Cubi Pt.
talos402000
SOC-7
Maracaibo, Venezuela. The original Startown. Venezuela's melting down and people are desperate to relocate, so everything (including the women) is for sale. Almost a perfect example of a Thin Edge Port.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
So aside from the Maracaibo comment, and maybe the area around Midway Airport in Chicago, just about all of the Startown comments mention military bases.
Roll back a century, and lower Manhattan.
Arrive at Ellis Island, get past the health inspection (or jump ship like my Great Grandfather) and welcome to the great melting pot.
MThompson016
SOC-12
HEY!
That's my family story! Jumping ship on the east coast.
Honestly, though, thinking of a seaport in the late 19th, early 20th century wouldn't be a bad idea. Business at all hours, a vast variety of accents, almost anything available, and the occasional bar fight as long as things don't cause too much property damage.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
This is at least partly due to major seaports often having associated Navy bases. Good harbors for big ships are less common than you might think, so a lot of sharing happens.
Ellis Island and the New York Melting Pot are in a lot of family histories in the US, lest we forget.
When I was at ft knox, that's what it was like. Run down, very little economic opportunity, crappy bars and restaurants. Of course there are parts of every city like that. Many cities are completely like that.
We're trying to compare a fictional construct (startown) with real life, and the fit is usually poor.
As posted above, most startown-like places serve military bases. IMO this us because:
1. A bunch of single men
2. With money to spend
3. Who work hard and want to unwind.
Will attract businesses catering to this.
A startown serves a starport, but given the nature of ship crews in traveller,
1. Crews of less than 10 except for pretty big ships which might stay at the highport.
2. There don't seem to be many passengers and passengers unless they're poor migrants would get going to wherever they're going instead of stopping off in a shady bar or similar craphole.
Imo, if there's a startown it would cater to the port workers first and ship crews and passengers a distant second.
I also think the startown wouldn't be universal. It would only exist Imo where conditions like law level, government type, port traffic volume, and population and local culture combine to make conditions favorable fir a startown to grow.
The Venezuela example seems like a good example.
We're trying to compare a fictional construct (startown) with real life, and the fit is usually poor.
As posted above, most startown-like places serve military bases. IMO this us because:
1. A bunch of single men
2. With money to spend
3. Who work hard and want to unwind.
Will attract businesses catering to this.
A startown serves a starport, but given the nature of ship crews in traveller,
1. Crews of less than 10 except for pretty big ships which might stay at the highport.
2. There don't seem to be many passengers and passengers unless they're poor migrants would get going to wherever they're going instead of stopping off in a shady bar or similar craphole.
Imo, if there's a startown it would cater to the port workers first and ship crews and passengers a distant second.
I also think the startown wouldn't be universal. It would only exist Imo where conditions like law level, government type, port traffic volume, and population and local culture combine to make conditions favorable fir a startown to grow.
The Venezuela example seems like a good example.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Rapid transit system could easily allow passengers, crew and employees access to the nearest urban centre, and the goods and services available there.
Many urban centers don't want those young men in "respectable parts of the city"... since young military personnel are (usually) more likely to be disruptive (especially drunk & disorderly, common brawling) than similar aged college students and civilian working stiffs.
Likewise, they'd usually rather not serve the campuses of the Universities, either - while not so prone to brawling, other disruptions are common. On the other hand, the Uni is more likely to be locally funded anyway, so it's served because local parents demand same for their kids, while not wanting out-of-town kids all over the city...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
While those seeking more vigorous pursuits might head for the less salubrious urban districts.
I don't think there's a one size fits all for startowns; if you'd really want to isolate foreigners, they'd be stuck on the HiPort, applying for a visa, but free to partake of the goods and services available there, much like a Duty Free zone in a terminal.
I don't think there's a one size fits all for startowns; if you'd really want to isolate foreigners, they'd be stuck on the HiPort, applying for a visa, but free to partake of the goods and services available there, much like a Duty Free zone in a terminal.
Just coming back from a Caribbean cruise, it strikes me that a 'startown' might also take exactly the opposite approach to the 'military red light district' and long to attract every loose credit from every passing ship by every means possible.
Leaving the tarmac where your ship has landed, you are forced to 'run the gauntlet' through a long, narrow building full of 'duty-free' vendors promising the best prices around on every luxury item imaginable. It is only after surviving this test of endurance and will, that you reach a private market of shops and restaurants and entertainers to provide local color and pose for pictures for tips.
After a successful Recon skill check, you locate the hidden exit where a local taxi will take you to the approved shopping district (for a small fee) and a hundred locals will offer to take you on any imaginable destination, tour or adventure (also for a reasonable price). You have been warned that only the shops along the main street are "recommended", but quickly discover that some unknown adventure awaits down each side street or unmarked courtyard. Something called a Blue Iguana catches your eye and you discover a local market not listed on any of the tourist maps they handed out at the starport ... I wonder what we will find back there among the ice cold beer and special deals, (just for being the first customer of the day).
Leaving the tarmac where your ship has landed, you are forced to 'run the gauntlet' through a long, narrow building full of 'duty-free' vendors promising the best prices around on every luxury item imaginable. It is only after surviving this test of endurance and will, that you reach a private market of shops and restaurants and entertainers to provide local color and pose for pictures for tips.
After a successful Recon skill check, you locate the hidden exit where a local taxi will take you to the approved shopping district (for a small fee) and a hundred locals will offer to take you on any imaginable destination, tour or adventure (also for a reasonable price). You have been warned that only the shops along the main street are "recommended", but quickly discover that some unknown adventure awaits down each side street or unmarked courtyard. Something called a Blue Iguana catches your eye and you discover a local market not listed on any of the tourist maps they handed out at the starport ... I wonder what we will find back there among the ice cold beer and special deals, (just for being the first customer of the day).
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Having been on several Caribbean cruises, that is a reasonable description of a cruise ship port, assuming that you are docking. The tender ports tend to deposit you on what is essentially main street for the port, like Georgetown in the Cayman Islands or Kona on the big island of Hawaii. On St. Maartens, you have a long hike from the cruise ship, in most cases, to the end of the pier when you make contact with anyone. In St. Thomas, you dock near the warehouses, and then catch buses or taxis into town or on the ship tours. Nothing like a run-down startown near the cruise ship docks. In a couple of the Hawaiian ports, you are quite a ways from anything except a reception building, so either municipal buses or taxies are needed.
I've been having the same thoughts - I suspect that startown might often look like the various shops and restaurants inside airports these days. Certainly in the higher tech/law level systems.
For the most part I suspect that Startown is pretty pedestrian and pretty darn safe. Mos Eisley isn't nasty because it's a Startown, it's nasty because it's Mos Eisley. There seems to be a tendency to view all Startowns as some version of Shaghai/Hong Kong/Port Royal when I expect that these would be a exception rather than the rule.
D.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Heh, a cruise liner is the equivalent of showing up to a planet on a 10,000 ton High Passage jump-4 liner, and having service shuttles and grav busses taking the SOC 9+ over the hoi polloi to facilities appropriate to their station.
Meanwhile, the SOC 5- that just woke up to a disappointed captain that didn't win the Frozen Lottery, getting unceremoniously booted off the ship and has 100Cr to their name is going to have a different set of lodging and entertainment choices.
More like the experience of the Caribbean native who bribed his way onto a fishing boat and is now walking into the same resort towns, but from the fishing docks to the 'off resort' support areas.
Pretty sure an air conditioned bus whisking him to a hot and cold running water hotel room is not in his cards.
Meanwhile, the SOC 5- that just woke up to a disappointed captain that didn't win the Frozen Lottery, getting unceremoniously booted off the ship and has 100Cr to their name is going to have a different set of lodging and entertainment choices.
More like the experience of the Caribbean native who bribed his way onto a fishing boat and is now walking into the same resort towns, but from the fishing docks to the 'off resort' support areas.
Pretty sure an air conditioned bus whisking him to a hot and cold running water hotel room is not in his cards.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Have you ever been on a current Caribbean or any other cruise ship? You may have a few 9+ Society persons on board, but for the most part, you are looking at people who are middle class, enjoying a special vacation. As for the Caribbean natives, they are making a nice income off of the cruise passengers, without needing a star town to do it.
Even middle passage in Traveller runs you 8,000 Imperial Credits per person, which is about 6 to 8 times what a 7-day cruise costs in the Caribbean. Low passage is closer to what a current cruise costs, but the accommodations are considerably superior to a Low Passage birth.
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