Regina Startown (1900)

[savage]

Starports come in various sizes A through dirt. Each will have something more advanced than an airport for facilities. There will be no visa's required to walk through the starport and do business, have fun, etc. Once the individual reaches the commuter train, vehicle transport express way they will find a visa required for most communities. It keeps the Vargr out.:rofl:

The Startown/city/megaopolis depending on the world and port will have a variety of normal municipality function and districts. Its not likely that manufacturing would actually occur within the starport tax zone for example. Trade can and probably would occur in multiple locations. A startown becomes a continental hub for trade. There will be people who do business that don't give a crap about the starport. It's a transportation hub. Long Beach Ca for example.

 

[Ulsyus]

local law vs imperial law is you point correct?

Imperial Law might be a bit less strict? as long as it doesn't involve trade, murder or WMD it might be better to have the bars in the starport...

what law code is imperial law anyway? local law structures can be wildly varying....

If there was going to be any place with a high law level, wouldn't it be the star port, where large amounts of hydrogen fuel is stored for ships? Is the perception of all-in star port brawls one borne of an earlier time where security was less pervasive and brawls were more common?

 

[flykiller]

If there was going to be any place with a high law level, wouldn't it be the star port

imtu the starport is the personal property of the local noble. don' mess widdit.

now the planetside town outside the starport is a different story ....

 

[77topaz]

If there was going to be any place with a high law level, wouldn't it be the star port, where large amounts of hydrogen fuel is stored for ships? Is the perception of all-in star port brawls one borne of an earlier time where security was less pervasive and brawls were more common?

imtu the starport is the personal property of the local noble. don' mess widdit.

now the planetside town outside the starport is a different story ....

In the OTU, aren't they managed by Starport Authorities which are in turn managed directly by the Imperium, and thereby fall under a centralised Imperial law?

 

[77topaz]

Anybody who builds tall buildings by a starport is asking to have them clipped off...



There should be, in my opinion, no tall buildings near. Especially off the ends of the runways.

Hmm... wouldn't most of the vehicles in a high-tech starport be grav vehicles which have no need for runways?

 

[Ackehece]

In the OTU, aren't they managed by Starport Authorities which are in turn managed directly by the Imperium, and thereby fall under a centralised Imperial law?

Correct. OTU they are Imperial Demesne. Should the local lord claim it, he would have an appropriately sized Imperial Fleet visit shortly thereafter.

 

[SanDragon]

Hmm... wouldn't most of the vehicles in a high-tech starport be grav vehicles which have no need for runways?

Maybe.

But if the grav fails?

What about having the option to glide in, in case of an emergency?

"Falling with style."

"Any landing you walk away from..."

 

[aramis]

Maybe.

But if the grav fails?

What about having the option to glide in, in case of an emergency?

Most ships in the OTU are NOT configured for aerodynamic landings.

 

[SanDragon]

Hmm...

Am I suffering bleed over from MT in remembering a task profile for crash landings?



Or, just my personal bias in preferring airframe ships?

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

It's safe to assume that Regina is an important TL16 world.

All Startowns

Startown is a warehousing district, adjacent to and separate from the Starport. Since there are also hiring halls and commodity exchanges, it seems to serve as the non-shipyard aspect of provisioning for starships. It also serves as a destination for shore leave by both civilian and military crew. Thus there are bars, brothels, cheap hotels, casinos and various sorts of games. I think this is the perfect place for an Arena (thank you, Joshua, for that!), as well as carnival-like offerings - freak shows, live music, virtual experiences (plain or chemically enhanced), tattoo parlors, fly-by-night implant and wafer-jack surgery, healers and other grifter offerings. Equipment outfitters are here; on more interesting worlds, you can outfit an entire expedition here (Starhammer has an excellent depiction of this sort of town).

It appears that there would be no true residences here - it stores cargo and has a large transient population, consisting of starship crew and passengers going to the planet, to the starport, or anywhere EXCEPT Startown. Things go through Startown; things do not typically stay there.

Thus, Startown is brutally functional. Buildings may range all over the tech scale, and since local police are on the take (all sources seem to note ths), it's likely that some buildings are not up to code (as Hans implied with his Fire Engine scenario). Outfitters' buildings will be built like bunkers.

You're going to have the cargo factor offices. From megacorps to fly-by-night operations that book whoever or whatever they can get.

There will be banking outlets, again dealing with everything from megacorps to check-cashing joints.

I don't agree that there is no permanent population in Startown.

You will have the residences of cargo handlers, bar and brothel workers, tattoo artists, wafer-jack surgeons, and the rest. You'll have the blue-color level families of these people, moms, dads, grandparents, children, etc. Schools, corner markets, relatively untwisted doctors, and the people that run those businesses.

You might get ethnic conclaves, economic or political refugees. They aren't outright hunted, but might be, but otherwise started hanging around a Port to try to get offworld, and ended up becoming the guys you go to for stevedore services.

Various levels of organized crime will have homes or palaces, maybe well disguised.

 

[flykiller]

In the OTU, aren't they managed by Starport Authorities which are in turn managed directly by the Imperium, and thereby fall under a centralised Imperial law?

well, you can stipulate whatever makes your game work. imtu the planets are not the imperium. they're members, but the imperium itself consists of the starports.

 

[flykiller]

If you have an idea, jot down what a bit of Regina's startown looks like.

casinos, hotels, churches, restaurants/eateries, bars, shops - food weapons booze, equipment clothing pawn, brothels upper class and lower class, transport - subway sky way ground taxi, crew - hiring hall "contract" (slave), street vendors, police/security/jails, bail vendors, loan sharks, mafia, gangs, vid(movie) houses, formal mayor, informal mayor.

think subic bay, texas street, bangkok.

 

[kilemall]

Its not likely that manufacturing would actually occur within the starport tax zone for example.

I would make the opposite assumption, that manufacturing is attracted to starport tax regions precisely to generate local jobs without any tariffs/customs delays. Materials dropped right in, stuff made, shipped straight out without any of that customs mess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_zone

 

[welsh]

I would make the opposite assumption, that manufacturing is attracted to starport tax regions precisely to generate local jobs without any tariffs/customs delays. Materials dropped right in, stuff made, shipped straight out without any of that customs mess.

Seems reasonable, but what are the tax implications for the Imperium? If the world can't tax it, is it part of the world's GDP? Seems to me this gets around paying taxes to the Imperium, too.

I feel the Imperial nobility will take a dim view of any scheme that tends to reduce their income as a parasitic protection racket -- oops -- interstellar empire.

 

[robject]

I don't agree that there is no permanent population in Startown.

You will have the residences of cargo handlers, bar and brothel workers, tattoo artists, wafer-jack surgeons, and the rest. You'll have the blue-color level families of these people, moms, dads, grandparents, children, etc. Schools, corner markets, relatively untwisted doctors, and the people that run those businesses.

Maybe, but I think your definition bleeds over into the "urban" areas of a city proper. Startown is, arguably by definition, metaphorically the "dockside" element of a "deep port".

 

[savage]

I would make the opposite assumption, that manufacturing is attracted to starport tax regions precisely to generate local jobs without any tariffs/customs delays. Materials dropped right in, stuff made, shipped straight out without any of that customs mess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_zone

The locals may not be too thrilled with the starport competing with their local industries in a tax free scenario. The Imperium is trying to promote local growth.

Also, free trade zones like duty free shops aside, there may be safety limits on what can be manufactured within the starport. We don't have a lot of manufacturing within Long Beach port but mostly loading/unloading. Other ports are similar. The nature of the "starport" is slightly different allowing crews to get what they need in the port. Starship assembly is probably occurring in the port region. That's different isn't it. But satellite business locations are probably a logistics necessity.

 

[kilemall]

The locals may not be too thrilled with the starport competing with their local industries in a tax free scenario. The Imperium is trying to promote local growth.

Exactly what FTZs are about- generate local jobs for international business (or in this case interstellar). Locals commute in and out of the FTZ, gets hard interstellar credits circulating that otherwise wouldn't coming to that planet.

It would be limited by both physical real estate limits as to defined extrality when the starport was laid down and likely by the planetary government to only allow businesses that would not locate without the FTZ.

Governments in general are not keen on cutting their own throats re: tax revenue and would want to keep most activity in their taxable sector, but extra credits to spend and new skill bases advances the development agenda.

 

[savage]

Exactly what FTZs are about- ...

Governments in general are not keen on cutting their own throats re: tax revenue and would want to keep most activity in their taxable sector, but extra credits to spend and new skill bases advances the development agenda.

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying there is a difference between worlds in Traveller, and a starcity not complimenting but existing instead of a starport is not what canon describes. So, there will be a lot of difference between Regina and Capital in 1900. Perhaps tax free zones exist for a certain time period...or for other reasons. They do on Earth today. But that's talking about one planet with fossil fuel ships and planes not interstellar trade using starships with "fusion" reactors. Some ships carry defensive explosives, nuclear weapons, etc. The starport appears to segregate itself from the local community for a reason. The Imperium may not want business build MP Fusion Guns in a starport where the world law level stops at shotguns. Just because you can carry it does not mean they produce it.

If your certain that this is the case for Regina you'll need some supporting evidence. 1248 suggests that Pashus (http://travellermap.com/world.html?sector=Deneb&hex=1432) was converted from a high tech world to a commercial/navy depot. Perhaps that required more cultural acceptance of military starships everywhere with industry creating starcities vs ports & cities. Perhaps this disastrous approach is the real reason for the Civil War since military technology security is easily lost. But it doesn't give niceties or details.

Find manufacturing examples in starports not just TAS, pubs, and warehouses.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

The Imperium is trying to promote local growth.

Economics is economics, but...
Since it is 1900, what do you see as the relevant institutions that have risen or fallen or are in charge of Regina in 1900 vis a vis a Regina Starport/Startown?

As flykiller asked SPA? Is there a Staport Authority (ala Mongoose Starports and others). Perhaps, as the Rating System is the same. but that is a 3I institution and the 3I is gone...

Who is in charge? The Republic of Regina (RR), League of Spinward States (LS), or the 4th Imperium (4I)? This is the one I am most curious because if a Starport is run by the SPA (or on behalf of the RR, LS or 4I or how that works out), the character of who is in charge of the system determines how the starport works. I use for comparison how Solomani Confederation Starports are run differently from Imperial Starports.

• By the end of current history (1248), Regina declared independence and formed a the RR, a small group of 30 (only 30) systems.
• It joined the LS, which is looser than a Confederation, but more solid than a grouping of ~150 worlds.
• The 4I is several sectors away and would have to whomp on the Vilani Imperium or go thu Reft. Then they still would have to take over the Regency and subvert the LS (which has the Darrians and Swordies as members).

Travellers' Aid Society ? Are they still around? Do they have a hostel?

 

[savage]

Economics is economics, but...
Since it is 1900, what do you see as the relevant institutions that have risen or fallen or are in charge of Regina in 1900 vis a vis a Regina Starport/Startown?

As flykiller asked SPA? Is there a Staport Authority (ala Mongoose Starports and others). Perhaps, as the Rating System is the same. but that is a 3I institution and the 3I is gone...

Who is in charge? The Republic of Regina (RR), League of Spinward States (LS), or the 4th Imperium (4I)? This is the one I am most curious because if a Starport is run by the SPA (or on behalf of the RR, LS or 4I or how that works out), the character of who is in charge of the system determines how the starport works. I use for comparison how Solomani Confederation Starports are run differently from Imperial Starports.

• By the end of current history (1248), Regina declared independence and formed a the RR, a small group of 30 (only 30) systems.
• It joined the LS, which is looser than a Confederation, but more solid than a grouping of ~150 worlds.
• The 4I is several sectors away and would have to whomp on the Vilani Imperium or go thu Reft. Then they still would have to take over the Regency and subvert the LS (which has the Darrians and Swordies as members).

Travellers' Aid Society ? Are they still around? Do they have a hostel?

All good points. It is all up for assumptions. However, all of these locations will react to their own histories successes and failures. I would think the purpose is to establish the 4I. In which, many 3I actions will have input into how they move forward. No reason to assume the Vilani would not hop onboard considering their options. They may dictate from a better position. But that detracts from my question. On what basis do we assume starcities will replace cities with neighboring starports? In someways Depot Deneb and Pashus could be considered failures.