History...
- Thread starter Solo
- Start date
There's enough Traveller history out there; what I want to see is how to integrate it into the game and make it work for players and referees.
Besides, trying to get a group of people together to amicably write the book would probably require too many bodybags.
But hey, it could just be me. . .
Besides, trying to get a group of people together to amicably write the book would probably require too many bodybags.
But hey, it could just be me. . .
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gatsby:
Fine by me....
Would love to see Vilani explained more, them being the heart of the Imperium and all!
Gats'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes! If it does that, I'd buy it.
But, it wold have to be able to support CT and MT as written. (in short, no written prohibitions on standard results from the CGen or combat systems... IE, no "All marines are BD troopies" kind of stuff, no gazelles with Black globes, etc.
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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Fine by me....
Would love to see Vilani explained more, them being the heart of the Imperium and all!
Gats'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes! If it does that, I'd buy it.
But, it wold have to be able to support CT and MT as written. (in short, no written prohibitions on standard results from the CGen or combat systems... IE, no "All marines are BD troopies" kind of stuff, no gazelles with Black globes, etc.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
I would have to vote against novels, providing background. As novels are great but they should focus on plot and settings created other than those from history.
I would really favor a complete sourcebook of Traveller history because I think there is alot of wrong history that is floating out there. I know that Marc has that disclaimer that what is understood in 1116 would be different 200. Notwithstanding, for me I like games which emphasis background over rules. For rules one can modify and change. And, Traveller with all its incarnations, I am sure by now were all play variants of whatever rules we are most comfortable with.
My only concern would not have a book just filled with Library Data type background. There must be entertaining ways to tell the Traveller story. For me the ideal model would be what was found Rebellion sourcebook. One which presented often two sides to the same coin, allowing the referees to decide what is truth.
I would really favor a complete sourcebook of Traveller history because I think there is alot of wrong history that is floating out there. I know that Marc has that disclaimer that what is understood in 1116 would be different 200. Notwithstanding, for me I like games which emphasis background over rules. For rules one can modify and change. And, Traveller with all its incarnations, I am sure by now were all play variants of whatever rules we are most comfortable with.
My only concern would not have a book just filled with Library Data type background. There must be entertaining ways to tell the Traveller story. For me the ideal model would be what was found Rebellion sourcebook. One which presented often two sides to the same coin, allowing the referees to decide what is truth.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gatsby:
Fine by me....
Would love to see Vilani explained more, them being the heart of the Imperium and all!
Gats'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You don't have DGP's Cogs and Dogs? It explained the Vilani to the T. Also pick up the Travellers Digest that would cover Vland.
I am just interested how much of T20 will be devoted to History?
Fine by me....
Would love to see Vilani explained more, them being the heart of the Imperium and all!
Gats'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You don't have DGP's Cogs and Dogs? It explained the Vilani to the T. Also pick up the Travellers Digest that would cover Vland.
I am just interested how much of T20 will be devoted to History?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
You don't have DGP's Cogs and Dogs? It explained the Vilani to the T. Also pick up the Travellers Digest that would cover Vland.
I am just interested how much of T20 will be devoted to History?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do. But no more legal copies will be made (unless RS drops over dead), and it is "Forbidden Canon" last I heard. Something else bad about Vilani & Vargr is that it doesn't relate them into the workings and shaping of the late 3I.
A new treatment is in order. Preferably one with respect for the old treatment.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
You don't have DGP's Cogs and Dogs? It explained the Vilani to the T. Also pick up the Travellers Digest that would cover Vland.
I am just interested how much of T20 will be devoted to History?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do. But no more legal copies will be made (unless RS drops over dead), and it is "Forbidden Canon" last I heard. Something else bad about Vilani & Vargr is that it doesn't relate them into the workings and shaping of the late 3I.
A new treatment is in order. Preferably one with respect for the old treatment.
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gatsby:
Cogs and Dogs? I, so far have lost two E-bay auctions on the item (which appears VERY infrequently).
Gats'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My spares sold locally for $50 per copy.
I wish I hadn't sold them.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Cogs and Dogs? I, so far have lost two E-bay auctions on the item (which appears VERY infrequently).
Gats'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My spares sold locally for $50 per copy.
I wish I hadn't sold them.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
I do. But no more legal copies will be made (unless RS drops over dead), and it is "Forbidden Canon" last I heard.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forbidden cannon. Much of what was contained was actually extrapolated from solid GDW sources. One ought to look into much of what DGP actually contributed solely and leave that for RS to rot over. The rest that remains ought to be fair game to use and reuse.
As noted in another post, much of the problem is nobody has bothered to dissect the entire Traveller cannon and slap it together afresh. Rather we are still playing with CT with modifications. Plus, has not RS allowed Marc to use all of DGP stuff. Therefore, if Marc wrote a sourcebook entitled Traveller: a history of the Far Future. He would be allowed to do so.
So I wonder why doesn't Marc write more frequently, even on these boards. We all wait for word. But, my guess is that he past Traveller and does this the fans. Of which I am one.
But, what I am hoping that a Traveller rennaisance will begin with T20. But, in order to do that, it will need to prove its milieu is more appealing than Fading Suns, Heavy Gear, Blue Planet or whatever other Science Fiction is out there on the gaming market.
[This message has been edited by kafka47 (edited 30 December 2001).]
I do. But no more legal copies will be made (unless RS drops over dead), and it is "Forbidden Canon" last I heard.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forbidden cannon. Much of what was contained was actually extrapolated from solid GDW sources. One ought to look into much of what DGP actually contributed solely and leave that for RS to rot over. The rest that remains ought to be fair game to use and reuse.
As noted in another post, much of the problem is nobody has bothered to dissect the entire Traveller cannon and slap it together afresh. Rather we are still playing with CT with modifications. Plus, has not RS allowed Marc to use all of DGP stuff. Therefore, if Marc wrote a sourcebook entitled Traveller: a history of the Far Future. He would be allowed to do so.
So I wonder why doesn't Marc write more frequently, even on these boards. We all wait for word. But, my guess is that he past Traveller and does this the fans. Of which I am one.
But, what I am hoping that a Traveller rennaisance will begin with T20. But, in order to do that, it will need to prove its milieu is more appealing than Fading Suns, Heavy Gear, Blue Planet or whatever other Science Fiction is out there on the gaming market.
[This message has been edited by kafka47 (edited 30 December 2001).]
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
But, what I am hoping that a Traveller rennaisance will begin with T20. But, in order to do that, it will need to prove its milieu is more appealing than Fading Suns, Heavy Gear, Blue Planet or whatever other Science Fiction is out there on the gaming market.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Personally I'd like to work a deal with FFG to do a Traveller: Blue Planet supplement...Blue Planet is really cool stuff and would fit very well in a Traveller setting.
Hunter
But, what I am hoping that a Traveller rennaisance will begin with T20. But, in order to do that, it will need to prove its milieu is more appealing than Fading Suns, Heavy Gear, Blue Planet or whatever other Science Fiction is out there on the gaming market.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Personally I'd like to work a deal with FFG to do a Traveller: Blue Planet supplement...Blue Planet is really cool stuff and would fit very well in a Traveller setting.
Hunter
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
Personally I'd like to work a deal with FFG to do a Traveller: Blue Planet supplement...Blue Planet is really cool stuff and would fit very well in a Traveller setting.
Hunter
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That will be cool Hunter. I was planing to buy Blue Planet but then they released a new edition spliting the game in several expensive volumes, which left me cold about it.
Personally I'd like to work a deal with FFG to do a Traveller: Blue Planet supplement...Blue Planet is really cool stuff and would fit very well in a Traveller setting.
Hunter
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That will be cool Hunter. I was planing to buy Blue Planet but then they released a new edition spliting the game in several expensive volumes, which left me cold about it.
While we are at it...
Perhaps, we can bug those guys over Holistic Design to resurrect the idea of having a Fading Suns product set in the Traveller universe (email them as I have done). But one that is removed from the Imperial Campaign.
This possibility has already been discussed. Now with T20, it is a more real possibility for greater cross-fertilization of Traveller inspired universes. Thanks Hunter! However, if we can somehow get all the gaming companies to have a common vision that would keep the best of what they offer and merge it with Traveller would really dandy.
[This message has been edited by kafka47 (edited 31 December 2001).]
Perhaps, we can bug those guys over Holistic Design to resurrect the idea of having a Fading Suns product set in the Traveller universe (email them as I have done). But one that is removed from the Imperial Campaign.
This possibility has already been discussed. Now with T20, it is a more real possibility for greater cross-fertilization of Traveller inspired universes. Thanks Hunter! However, if we can somehow get all the gaming companies to have a common vision that would keep the best of what they offer and merge it with Traveller would really dandy.
[This message has been edited by kafka47 (edited 31 December 2001).]
My problem with Vilani and Vargr being trotted out as an example of doing aliens is that 1) I just never understood the DGP fixation with the Vilani and 2) that DGP took what was CT library data and grafted on loads of ponderous detail. There were some good aspects to both DGP alien books but I'm leery of using them as examples.
But hey, it could just be me. . .
But hey, it could just be me. . .
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
My problem with Vilani and Vargr being trotted out as an example of doing aliens is that 1) I just never understood the DGP fixation with the Vilani and 2) that DGP took what was CT library data and grafted on loads of ponderous detail. There were some good aspects to both DGP alien books but I'm leery of using them as examples.
But hey, it could just be me. . .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
V&V was an excellent and easily useable source. it provided enough differentiation that it made vilani something more than just a label. Some of the more memorable PC's I've had have been vilani. And there was no CT vilani sourcebook nor alien generation. And not much published library data. Vargr section was a revision/expansion of CT AM Vargr. S&A was an expansion of the CT AM Solomani and AM Aslan. Both books made the MT playability very hgih, and the details enough that players really could grasp and become somewhat alien if they wanted to.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
My problem with Vilani and Vargr being trotted out as an example of doing aliens is that 1) I just never understood the DGP fixation with the Vilani and 2) that DGP took what was CT library data and grafted on loads of ponderous detail. There were some good aspects to both DGP alien books but I'm leery of using them as examples.
But hey, it could just be me. . .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
V&V was an excellent and easily useable source. it provided enough differentiation that it made vilani something more than just a label. Some of the more memorable PC's I've had have been vilani. And there was no CT vilani sourcebook nor alien generation. And not much published library data. Vargr section was a revision/expansion of CT AM Vargr. S&A was an expansion of the CT AM Solomani and AM Aslan. Both books made the MT playability very hgih, and the details enough that players really could grasp and become somewhat alien if they wanted to.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Back to the main current of this thread. There has been a proposal that one pairs rules with supplements that deal with one milieu. What do the others think of that proposal?
For me, it works in a limited way. Without a comprehensive background in the main rulebook. I cannot see what would motivate non-Traveller gamers to buy supplements even if they did contain the rules for starship combat. For me this would be a real turn off. Especially when it looks like D20 is going to be a standard in the gaming industry for some time. Many young gamers, I do not think would be attracted a new FF&S supplement (as much I love it) they would be interested in seeing how a milieu unfolds.
Which brings me to the mainpoint of this segment. Would there be interest in a unified Traveller historical sourcebook but told from different personages. Imagine the perspective of the Vilani governor who establishes contact with the Terrans. Or first contact with the Third Imperium, from the perspective of the K'kree, or a foot soldier in the Fourth Frontier War? In this way overcome the flaws in cannon and pass them off as biases. I would also wonder if T20 has considered doing something like this?
For me, it works in a limited way. Without a comprehensive background in the main rulebook. I cannot see what would motivate non-Traveller gamers to buy supplements even if they did contain the rules for starship combat. For me this would be a real turn off. Especially when it looks like D20 is going to be a standard in the gaming industry for some time. Many young gamers, I do not think would be attracted a new FF&S supplement (as much I love it) they would be interested in seeing how a milieu unfolds.
Which brings me to the mainpoint of this segment. Would there be interest in a unified Traveller historical sourcebook but told from different personages. Imagine the perspective of the Vilani governor who establishes contact with the Terrans. Or first contact with the Third Imperium, from the perspective of the K'kree, or a foot soldier in the Fourth Frontier War? In this way overcome the flaws in cannon and pass them off as biases. I would also wonder if T20 has considered doing something like this?
History presented as narratives by individuals, in their own words with their own biases could be very cool and give a flavor of what it's like to live within the setting (and hence improve gaming).
The question of how to present it eludes me though. (Over the years I've been in way too many discussion of how to market Traveller in order to 'save' it).
I would personally seperate the time periods into individual volumes or some such. My interest is in the classic (1100-1115~) era and not in what came before or theoretically follows.
Last, in my opinion only, D20 will 'win' only if we let it. Sure it's the 600 lbs gorilla but I'll take my Traveller in Classic form thanks.
The question of how to present it eludes me though. (Over the years I've been in way too many discussion of how to market Traveller in order to 'save' it).
I would personally seperate the time periods into individual volumes or some such. My interest is in the classic (1100-1115~) era and not in what came before or theoretically follows.
Last, in my opinion only, D20 will 'win' only if we let it. Sure it's the 600 lbs gorilla but I'll take my Traveller in Classic form thanks.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
History presented as narratives by individuals, in their own words with their own biases could be very cool and give a flavor of what it's like to live within the setting (and hence improve gaming).
The question of how to present it eludes me though. (Over the years I've been in way too many discussion of how to market Traveller in order to 'save' it).
I would personally seperate the time periods into individual volumes or some such. My interest is in the classic (1100-1115~) era and not in what came before or theoretically follows.
Last, in my opinion only, D20 will 'win' only if we let it. Sure it's the 600 lbs gorilla but I'll take my Traveller in Classic form thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately, history is always a sum of parts. Game histories often forget this. Put it all in one place.
As for the 600# gorrilla, well, it has market penetration and access to venues no other role-playing games do. It has rapid expansion, and is doing a wonderful job of blending ease of use with ease of expansion, and providing no/low cost options for 3rd parties. It is selling to new and unreached audiences... the "kmart crowd" as it be... Anything which provides new gamers is not a bad thing. Anything which brings new gamers to traveller is good for MWM/Avery... but not of need to traveller. T20 has respect for Traveller. And it will draw new players to traveller (But not new persons to the hobby, most likely) from the ranks of the D&D crowd, who now will have a venue that is full of familiar materials in new settings.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
History presented as narratives by individuals, in their own words with their own biases could be very cool and give a flavor of what it's like to live within the setting (and hence improve gaming).
The question of how to present it eludes me though. (Over the years I've been in way too many discussion of how to market Traveller in order to 'save' it).
I would personally seperate the time periods into individual volumes or some such. My interest is in the classic (1100-1115~) era and not in what came before or theoretically follows.
Last, in my opinion only, D20 will 'win' only if we let it. Sure it's the 600 lbs gorilla but I'll take my Traveller in Classic form thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately, history is always a sum of parts. Game histories often forget this. Put it all in one place.
As for the 600# gorrilla, well, it has market penetration and access to venues no other role-playing games do. It has rapid expansion, and is doing a wonderful job of blending ease of use with ease of expansion, and providing no/low cost options for 3rd parties. It is selling to new and unreached audiences... the "kmart crowd" as it be... Anything which provides new gamers is not a bad thing. Anything which brings new gamers to traveller is good for MWM/Avery... but not of need to traveller. T20 has respect for Traveller. And it will draw new players to traveller (But not new persons to the hobby, most likely) from the ranks of the D&D crowd, who now will have a venue that is full of familiar materials in new settings.
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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
