Hit Location without an extra roll

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
using MT, I figure high rolls equal more damage, eh? aka high rolls probably hit more vulnerable areas.
So I pick one die and use it to determine hit location to check vs. armor for that location ( bullet-proof vest don't protect against head shots. )
6=head
5=chest
4=gut
3=leg
2=arm
1=graze

The problem with this is that your percentages for hit location are all out of whack and unrealistic.

I'm not talking necessarily about the 1-6 chart you have. That's fine. 33% for Torso. 17% for head, arm, or leg. That's fine.

What I'm talking about is the percentage chance of actually hitting those locations.

The lower numbers on your attack die tend to be misses...and this tends to effect the chance that the lower-numbered hit locations will not be available for a hit.

For example:

Let's say Friids has AutoPistol-0. When all the DMs are said and done, he's -2 to hit. So, in CT terms, he's got to roll 2D -2 for 8+.

This is a simple example that can easily happen in a game.

Given this, under your system, Friids can never hit hit-location 1, 2, or 3.

He can never make a graze, or hit an arm or a leg, using your rules.

Why? Because if his designated hit location die results in a 1, 2, or 3, he can't make the shot even if his other die is a 6.

With this particular shot, Friids is only capable of hitting hit locations 4, 5, and 6.

Does that seem OK to you that it's only possible for Friids to hit his target's head or torso? With no arm or leg or graze results possible.

See...this blows your hit-location percentages all out of whack.

I know you said above you use MT rules, and I explained it in CT terms. But, I can make the same example for you in MT terms. I did it in CT terms because this is a CT forum, and we're talking about a CT hit location chart.

The problem, though, exists no matter which of the two rules sets you use.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
using MT, I figure high rolls equal more damage, eh? aka high rolls probably hit more vulnerable areas.
So I pick one die and use it to determine hit location to check vs. armor for that location ( bullet-proof vest don't protect against head shots. )
6=head
5=chest
4=gut
3=leg
2=arm
1=graze

The problem with this is that your percentages for hit location are all out of whack and unrealistic.

I'm not talking necessarily about the 1-6 chart you have. That's fine. 33% for Torso. 17% for head, arm, or leg. That's fine.

What I'm talking about is the percentage chance of actually hitting those locations.

The lower numbers on your attack die tend to be misses...and this tends to effect the chance that the lower-numbered hit locations will not be available for a hit.

For example:

Let's say Friids has AutoPistol-0. When all the DMs are said and done, he's -2 to hit. So, in CT terms, he's got to roll 2D -2 for 8+.

This is a simple example that can easily happen in a game.

Given this, under your system, Friids can never hit hit-location 1, 2, or 3.

He can never make a graze, or hit an arm or a leg, using your rules.

Why? Because if his designated hit location die results in a 1, 2, or 3, he can't make the shot even if his other die is a 6.

With this particular shot, Friids is only capable of hitting hit locations 4, 5, and 6.

Does that seem OK to you that it's only possible for Friids to hit his target's head or torso? With no arm or leg or graze results possible.

See...this blows your hit-location percentages all out of whack.

I know you said above you use MT rules, and I explained it in CT terms. But, I can make the same example for you in MT terms. I did it in CT terms because this is a CT forum, and we're talking about a CT hit location chart.

The problem, though, exists no matter which of the two rules sets you use.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
in a to-hit system, a shooter's skill is a vector - +2. in a hit-location system, a shooter's skill may become a range. +2 becomes -2<=x<=+2. would this work?

Flykiller, I'll admit. I'm just not following you here. Give me a game example of what you're proposing.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
in a to-hit system, a shooter's skill is a vector - +2. in a hit-location system, a shooter's skill may become a range. +2 becomes -2<=x<=+2. would this work?

Flykiller, I'll admit. I'm just not following you here. Give me a game example of what you're proposing.

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah..guess I have egg on my face about that. I see what you're saying I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
when I played this out years ago back when I had a group. Every character had dm's of 3 or more and ranges for pistol fights were so short that the sitaution described never came up.
I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
Anyways...this is a possible solution ( Trying to save face ).

Roll to hit normally, but use 3 dice; one with a different color which will be hit location die. If a hit is made with the 'normal' dice, replace the low die with the hit location die for determining damage. Damage is determined as per rules with that new total. There will be times when a shot that barely hits gets changed to a head shot that uses the exceptional success damage multipliers and will almost certainly kill. Or that an exception success get turned into a scratch thatdoes little if any damage.
If a miss occurs with the 'normal' dice, the hit location die can give an idea of where the miss was for sake of 'chrome'; " Bricks near your head explode and you duck reflexively from the riccochet."

There does occur a situation where the new total is less than the task roll 'to hit'. In that case, follow the damage multiplier progression downward. Making the task roll exactly gives half damage, so continuing, -2 would be halved again; -4 would be halved again; -8 would be halved again , and so on. For PC's, damage can be worked out to nearest 1/2 die and damage applied to characteristics immediately ( MT damage is number of dice rolled and applied to stats ). NPCs can use the ordinary life force damage model for simplicity.

For pinpoint shots, have shooter say where he is aiming, then increase task difficulty and if a hit occurs, let shooter adjust hit location die to place he said before figuring damage. For sniping, allow cautious tasks for aiming. whther simply concentrating, or remaining cool under fire.

Each hit location can be indidually armored...aka a bullet-proof vest totally covers the chest and abdomen...a helmet partially covers the head. Arms/legs are similarly treated. Each armor location can have different armor values.

Hit location works with targets that are partially exposed. For example, a target that is leaning over a sandbag to fire a rifle will be protected by that sandbag unless a head or arm hit is made.

That's my new idea, in a nutshell...I'll write up an example combat later.

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah..guess I have egg on my face about that. I see what you're saying I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
when I played this out years ago back when I had a group. Every character had dm's of 3 or more and ranges for pistol fights were so short that the sitaution described never came up.
I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
Anyways...this is a possible solution ( Trying to save face ).

Roll to hit normally, but use 3 dice; one with a different color which will be hit location die. If a hit is made with the 'normal' dice, replace the low die with the hit location die for determining damage. Damage is determined as per rules with that new total. There will be times when a shot that barely hits gets changed to a head shot that uses the exceptional success damage multipliers and will almost certainly kill. Or that an exception success get turned into a scratch thatdoes little if any damage.
If a miss occurs with the 'normal' dice, the hit location die can give an idea of where the miss was for sake of 'chrome'; " Bricks near your head explode and you duck reflexively from the riccochet."

There does occur a situation where the new total is less than the task roll 'to hit'. In that case, follow the damage multiplier progression downward. Making the task roll exactly gives half damage, so continuing, -2 would be halved again; -4 would be halved again; -8 would be halved again , and so on. For PC's, damage can be worked out to nearest 1/2 die and damage applied to characteristics immediately ( MT damage is number of dice rolled and applied to stats ). NPCs can use the ordinary life force damage model for simplicity.

For pinpoint shots, have shooter say where he is aiming, then increase task difficulty and if a hit occurs, let shooter adjust hit location die to place he said before figuring damage. For sniping, allow cautious tasks for aiming. whther simply concentrating, or remaining cool under fire.

Each hit location can be indidually armored...aka a bullet-proof vest totally covers the chest and abdomen...a helmet partially covers the head. Arms/legs are similarly treated. Each armor location can have different armor values.

Hit location works with targets that are partially exposed. For example, a target that is leaning over a sandbag to fire a rifle will be protected by that sandbag unless a head or arm hit is made.

That's my new idea, in a nutshell...I'll write up an example combat later.

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah..guess I have egg on my face about that. I see what you're saying I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
when I played this out years ago back when I had a group. Every character had dm's of 3 or more and ranges for pistol fights were so short that the sitaution described never came up.
I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
Anyways...this is a possible solution ( Trying to save face ).

Roll to hit normally, but use 3 dice; one with a different color which will be hit location die. If a hit is made with the 'normal' dice, replace the low die with the hit location die for determining damage. Damage is determined as per rules with that new total. There will be times when a shot that barely hits gets changed to a head shot that uses the exceptional success damage multipliers and will almost certainly kill. Or that an exception success get turned into a scratch thatdoes little if any damage.
If a miss occurs with the 'normal' dice, the hit location die can give an idea of where the miss was for sake of 'chrome'; " Bricks near your head explode and you duck reflexively from the riccochet."

There does occur a situation where the new total is less than the task roll 'to hit'. In that case, follow the damage multiplier progression downward. Making the task roll exactly gives half damage, so continuing, -2 would be halved again; -4 would be halved again; -8 would be halved again , and so on. For PC's, damage can be worked out to nearest 1/2 die and damage applied to characteristics immediately ( MT damage is number of dice rolled and applied to stats ). NPCs can use the ordinary life force damage model for simplicity.

For pinpoint shots, have shooter say where he is aiming, then increase task difficulty and if a hit occurs, let shooter adjust hit location die to place he said before figuring damage. For sniping, allow cautious tasks for aiming. whther simply concentrating, or remaining cool under fire.

Each hit location can be indidually armored...aka a bullet-proof vest totally covers the chest and abdomen...a helmet partially covers the head. Arms/legs are similarly treated. Each armor location can have different armor values.

Hit location works with targets that are partially exposed. For example, a target that is leaning over a sandbag to fire a rifle will be protected by that sandbag unless a head or arm hit is made.

That's my new idea, in a nutshell...I'll write up an example combat later.

 

[Ishmael]

Yeah..guess I have egg on my face about that. I see what you're saying I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
when I played this out years ago back when I had a group. Every character had dm's of 3 or more and ranges for pistol fights were so short that the sitaution described never came up.
I've been thinking of a way around that problem for a day or two now.
Anyways...this is a possible solution ( Trying to save face ).

Roll to hit normally, but use 3 dice; one with a different color which will be hit location die. If a hit is made with the 'normal' dice, replace the low die with the hit location die for determining damage. Damage is determined as per rules with that new total. There will be times when a shot that barely hits gets changed to a head shot that uses the exceptional success damage multipliers and will almost certainly kill. Or that an exception success get turned into a scratch thatdoes little if any damage.
If a miss occurs with the 'normal' dice, the hit location die can give an idea of where the miss was for sake of 'chrome'; " Bricks near your head explode and you duck reflexively from the riccochet."

There does occur a situation where the new total is less than the task roll 'to hit'. In that case, follow the damage multiplier progression downward. Making the task roll exactly gives half damage, so continuing, -2 would be halved again; -4 would be halved again; -8 would be halved again , and so on. For PC's, damage can be worked out to nearest 1/2 die and damage applied to characteristics immediately ( MT damage is number of dice rolled and applied to stats ). NPCs can use the ordinary life force damage model for simplicity.

For pinpoint shots, have shooter say where he is aiming, then increase task difficulty and if a hit occurs, let shooter adjust hit location die to place he said before figuring damage. For sniping, allow cautious tasks for aiming. whther simply concentrating, or remaining cool under fire.

Each hit location can be indidually armored...aka a bullet-proof vest totally covers the chest and abdomen...a helmet partially covers the head. Arms/legs are similarly treated. Each armor location can have different armor values.

Hit location works with targets that are partially exposed. For example, a target that is leaning over a sandbag to fire a rifle will be protected by that sandbag unless a head or arm hit is made.

That's my new idea, in a nutshell...I'll write up an example combat later.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
Yeah..guess I have egg on my face about that.

Naw, man. I don't see any egg. We're all just discussin' Traveller here.

Roll to hit normally, but use 3 dice; one with a different color which will be hit location die.

Or, instead of using all those changes to the system and having to deal with a 3D to-hit roll, you could just use the easy system that I suggest at the start of this thread:

(1) Roll 2D for attack normally.

(2) If total attack is even, then you hit your target's torso. Bam. You're done. No fuss, no muss.

(3) If your total attack is odd, then simply add your skill to the highest single die in your attack throw and compare to the hit location chart--doesn't require another roll. Just add and look.

Here's the chart:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1: L. Leg
2: R. Leg
3: L. Arm
4: R. Arm
5: Torso
6: Head
7: L. Leg
8: R. Leg
9: L. Arm
10: R. Arm
11: Torso
12: Head</pre>[/QUOTE]Incidentally, this easy system I propose gives percentage chance to hit any body location similar to what you used previously.


Your old system...

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head 17%
Torso 32%
Arm 17%
Leg 17%
Graze 17%
---------------
100%</pre>[/QUOTE]And, the system I propose...



</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head 8%
Torso 58%
Arms 17%
Legs 17%
-----------------
100%</pre>[/QUOTE]Note that, if you want, you can allow for extra damage for things like "head" hits. (Under my house rules, Head hits allow for a +1 Random Damage Die, while Arm hits allow for -1 Random Damage Die.








Here's the full write-up on my no-fuss Hit Location Chart from earlier in the thead...

HIT LOCATION



STEP 1: All EVEN numbered attack throws result in a Torso hit.

STEP 2: If he attack roll results in an ODD number, then simply take the highest die from the attack roll and add the attacker's skill level. The result on the Hit Location chart displays the body location of the hit.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1: L. Leg
2: R. Leg
3: L. Arm
4: R. Arm
5: Torso
6: Head
7: L. Leg
8: R. Leg
9: L. Arm
10: R. Arm
11: Torso
12: Head</pre>[/QUOTE]STEP 3: Should a Hit Location result in 13+, the attacker is allowed to pick his Hit Location.








-------------------------------------------------
Example


Freshizon fires his AutoPistol at an enemy. He rolls 2D +mods for 8+ (the standard CT attack throw).

Freshizon's expertise is AutoPistol-3. On his 2D attack, he throws: 1, 5.

Freshizon hits with a total attack throw of 11 (Freshizon gets +2 for other DMs not important to this example.)

Since Freshizon's attack is odd, we easily figure Hit Location by taking his highest die and adding his skill level.

5 + 3 = 8

He hit Hit Location #8, which is the target's R. Leg.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
Yeah..guess I have egg on my face about that.

Naw, man. I don't see any egg. We're all just discussin' Traveller here.

Roll to hit normally, but use 3 dice; one with a different color which will be hit location die.

Or, instead of using all those changes to the system and having to deal with a 3D to-hit roll, you could just use the easy system that I suggest at the start of this thread:

(1) Roll 2D for attack normally.

(2) If total attack is even, then you hit your target's torso. Bam. You're done. No fuss, no muss.

(3) If your total attack is odd, then simply add your skill to the highest single die in your attack throw and compare to the hit location chart--doesn't require another roll. Just add and look.

Here's the chart:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1: L. Leg
2: R. Leg
3: L. Arm
4: R. Arm
5: Torso
6: Head
7: L. Leg
8: R. Leg
9: L. Arm
10: R. Arm
11: Torso
12: Head</pre>[/QUOTE]Incidentally, this easy system I propose gives percentage chance to hit any body location similar to what you used previously.


Your old system...

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head 17%
Torso 32%
Arm 17%
Leg 17%
Graze 17%
---------------
100%</pre>[/QUOTE]And, the system I propose...



</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head 8%
Torso 58%
Arms 17%
Legs 17%
-----------------
100%</pre>[/QUOTE]Note that, if you want, you can allow for extra damage for things like "head" hits. (Under my house rules, Head hits allow for a +1 Random Damage Die, while Arm hits allow for -1 Random Damage Die.








Here's the full write-up on my no-fuss Hit Location Chart from earlier in the thead...

HIT LOCATION



STEP 1: All EVEN numbered attack throws result in a Torso hit.

STEP 2: If he attack roll results in an ODD number, then simply take the highest die from the attack roll and add the attacker's skill level. The result on the Hit Location chart displays the body location of the hit.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1: L. Leg
2: R. Leg
3: L. Arm
4: R. Arm
5: Torso
6: Head
7: L. Leg
8: R. Leg
9: L. Arm
10: R. Arm
11: Torso
12: Head</pre>[/QUOTE]STEP 3: Should a Hit Location result in 13+, the attacker is allowed to pick his Hit Location.








-------------------------------------------------
Example


Freshizon fires his AutoPistol at an enemy. He rolls 2D +mods for 8+ (the standard CT attack throw).

Freshizon's expertise is AutoPistol-3. On his 2D attack, he throws: 1, 5.

Freshizon hits with a total attack throw of 11 (Freshizon gets +2 for other DMs not important to this example.)

Since Freshizon's attack is odd, we easily figure Hit Location by taking his highest die and adding his skill level.

5 + 3 = 8

He hit Hit Location #8, which is the target's R. Leg.

 

[flykiller]

Now if we could superimpose a spectrum of rolled values on top of an image of a battledressed marine..

yes, it does immediately evolve up to that and it's a great representation of what happens in the real world. but this generates its own game problems such as the need for a large number of graphics and the necessity of subjectively evaluating each hit location - "is that a hit to the neck or the shoulder?" a simple chart with discreet locations - "torso", "arm" - might be more efficient.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />in a to-hit system, a shooter's skill is a vector - +2. in a hit-location system, a shooter's skill may become a range. +2 becomes -2<=x<=+2. would this work?

Give me a game example of what you're proposing.</font>[/QUOTE]sure.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">12 head
11 arm
10 leg
9 torso
8 ---
7 ---
6 ---
(etc)</pre>[/QUOTE]say someone with pistol 1 was shooting at the previous example of a target with only its legs exposed. the player rolls an 11. if the pistol skill modifier is +1 then the final result is 12 meaning no hit - but if the pistol skill modifier was + or - 1 then the final result could be 12, 11, or 10 as the player decides, meaning the legs could be hit. the pistol skill becomes a modifier, not to the likelihood of achieving a hit on the target at all, but rather an adjustment to where the round goes.

 

[flykiller]

Now if we could superimpose a spectrum of rolled values on top of an image of a battledressed marine..

yes, it does immediately evolve up to that and it's a great representation of what happens in the real world. but this generates its own game problems such as the need for a large number of graphics and the necessity of subjectively evaluating each hit location - "is that a hit to the neck or the shoulder?" a simple chart with discreet locations - "torso", "arm" - might be more efficient.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />in a to-hit system, a shooter's skill is a vector - +2. in a hit-location system, a shooter's skill may become a range. +2 becomes -2<=x<=+2. would this work?

Give me a game example of what you're proposing.</font>[/QUOTE]sure.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">12 head
11 arm
10 leg
9 torso
8 ---
7 ---
6 ---
(etc)</pre>[/QUOTE]say someone with pistol 1 was shooting at the previous example of a target with only its legs exposed. the player rolls an 11. if the pistol skill modifier is +1 then the final result is 12 meaning no hit - but if the pistol skill modifier was + or - 1 then the final result could be 12, 11, or 10 as the player decides, meaning the legs could be hit. the pistol skill becomes a modifier, not to the likelihood of achieving a hit on the target at all, but rather an adjustment to where the round goes.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">12 head
11 arm
10 leg
9 torso
8 ---
7 ---
6 ---
(etc)</pre>

say someone with pistol 1 was shooting at the previous example of a target with only its legs exposed. the player rolls an 11. if the pistol skill modifier is +1 then the final result is 12 meaning no hit - but if the pistol skill modifier was + or - 1 then the final result could be 12, 11, or 10 as the player decides, meaning the legs could be hit. the pistol skill becomes a modifier, not to the likelihood of achieving a hit on the target at all, but rather an adjustment to where the round goes. [/quote]Ahh... I've considered this before.

As a matter of fact, Top Secret TSSI uses a mechanic similar to this (where hit location can be "bumped" up or down a number of places equal to the attacker's skill level.

Here's what I don't like about that: Average "good" skill in Classic Traveller is Level-2 to Level-3, meaning a CT character typically has at least one skill at Level-2 or Level-3, with Level-4 not that uncommon.

And, since this is a combat oriented game (typically), many times that specialized skill is a combat skill (like AutoPistol-3).

Somebody with AutoPistol-2, hitting an opponent, will have too much choice on the hit location chart, in my opinion. We're only talking about a 6 point scale...

1. Head
2. R. Arm
3. L. Arm
4. Torso
5. R. Leg
6. L. Leg

That means, in effect, that anyone with a weapon-2 skill will be able to pick where they hit almost every time they are successful on an attack roll.

Even if we made the hit location chart a little bigger (getting more specific about where a hit lands), a level-2 skill will give you a range of 5 on a scale (your rolled hit location, plus 2 up and 2 down).

On a 10, 11, or 12 place hit location chart, that 5 spaces is half the chart!

If we're talking about a character with Skill-3 or better, forgettaboutit.




But...

There is a fix for this that I concocted for my TSSI game.

I allow the bump as described above at the expense of damage.

In TSSI, even 1D6 of damage is a lot (a 5 or 6 can typically destroy a hit location). What I did in that game was impose a damage penalty for every point the hit location was bumped.

So, if it took 2 bumps to hit your enemy's head, you'd take -2 damage (which, in TSSI is HUGE).

Maybe, in Traveller, this would work. (Maybe you'd want to increase the penalty...like 2 points of damage sacrificed for every bump made).

I thought about doing a 1D penalty for every bump made, but that's a little too harsh. 1-3 points penalty sounds about right to me.

Given the damage penalty, I'd consider using hit location bumping in my game.

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">12 head
11 arm
10 leg
9 torso
8 ---
7 ---
6 ---
(etc)</pre>

say someone with pistol 1 was shooting at the previous example of a target with only its legs exposed. the player rolls an 11. if the pistol skill modifier is +1 then the final result is 12 meaning no hit - but if the pistol skill modifier was + or - 1 then the final result could be 12, 11, or 10 as the player decides, meaning the legs could be hit. the pistol skill becomes a modifier, not to the likelihood of achieving a hit on the target at all, but rather an adjustment to where the round goes. [/quote]Ahh... I've considered this before.

As a matter of fact, Top Secret TSSI uses a mechanic similar to this (where hit location can be "bumped" up or down a number of places equal to the attacker's skill level.

Here's what I don't like about that: Average "good" skill in Classic Traveller is Level-2 to Level-3, meaning a CT character typically has at least one skill at Level-2 or Level-3, with Level-4 not that uncommon.

And, since this is a combat oriented game (typically), many times that specialized skill is a combat skill (like AutoPistol-3).

Somebody with AutoPistol-2, hitting an opponent, will have too much choice on the hit location chart, in my opinion. We're only talking about a 6 point scale...

1. Head
2. R. Arm
3. L. Arm
4. Torso
5. R. Leg
6. L. Leg

That means, in effect, that anyone with a weapon-2 skill will be able to pick where they hit almost every time they are successful on an attack roll.

Even if we made the hit location chart a little bigger (getting more specific about where a hit lands), a level-2 skill will give you a range of 5 on a scale (your rolled hit location, plus 2 up and 2 down).

On a 10, 11, or 12 place hit location chart, that 5 spaces is half the chart!

If we're talking about a character with Skill-3 or better, forgettaboutit.




But...

There is a fix for this that I concocted for my TSSI game.

I allow the bump as described above at the expense of damage.

In TSSI, even 1D6 of damage is a lot (a 5 or 6 can typically destroy a hit location). What I did in that game was impose a damage penalty for every point the hit location was bumped.

So, if it took 2 bumps to hit your enemy's head, you'd take -2 damage (which, in TSSI is HUGE).

Maybe, in Traveller, this would work. (Maybe you'd want to increase the penalty...like 2 points of damage sacrificed for every bump made).

I thought about doing a 1D penalty for every bump made, but that's a little too harsh. 1-3 points penalty sounds about right to me.

Given the damage penalty, I'd consider using hit location bumping in my game.

Thoughts?

 

[Ishmael]

S4, I like that idea, but I prefer to have a system that allows me to specify the target for pinpoint shot. And this gives seemingly reasonable added damage for hitting dangerous locations.

The only change to standard MT is really tracking damage downward with fractions in addition to upward for exceptional successes. Everything else is in MT rules in some fashion; I hate straying too far from ruleset as that make any mistake have weirder effects, IMHO.

I'm also angling towards ideas concerning changes to the combat system like a mod of AHL with better melee rules and better use of stats. Something I've been toying with for awhile now.

Flykiller..seems cool.
For my 'hit chart', maybe a miss should shift the hit up ( if dice total is even ) or down ( if dice total is odd ) the chart by the amount of the miss; but if that takes it off the chart, its a clean miss, otherwise the bullet hits the other location by accident...just an idea. Have to make aiming for the chest/gut have some advantage so people won't always aim for the head to kill...or arms to make npc drop stuff.

 

[Ishmael]

S4, I like that idea, but I prefer to have a system that allows me to specify the target for pinpoint shot. And this gives seemingly reasonable added damage for hitting dangerous locations.

The only change to standard MT is really tracking damage downward with fractions in addition to upward for exceptional successes. Everything else is in MT rules in some fashion; I hate straying too far from ruleset as that make any mistake have weirder effects, IMHO.

I'm also angling towards ideas concerning changes to the combat system like a mod of AHL with better melee rules and better use of stats. Something I've been toying with for awhile now.

Flykiller..seems cool.
For my 'hit chart', maybe a miss should shift the hit up ( if dice total is even ) or down ( if dice total is odd ) the chart by the amount of the miss; but if that takes it off the chart, its a clean miss, otherwise the bullet hits the other location by accident...just an idea. Have to make aiming for the chest/gut have some advantage so people won't always aim for the head to kill...or arms to make npc drop stuff.

 

[Supplement Four]

Hey, here's an idea to play with. Consider my DAMAGE THRESHOLD idea.

In TSSI, a character's CON score is divided by 10, and those points are allocated to the body's ten hit locations.

If the TSSI character has a CON score of 62, then each of the body's ten hit locations can take 6 points of wound damage before being destroyed (double that for bruise damage).

This character's hand, with a CON 62, could take 6 points of damage in his right hand, for example. 12 points if it was bruise damage.

The torso area can take 3 times the damage of the hand, so 18 points of damage to the chest will kill this character (or 36 points of bruise damage).

Basically, in TSSI, a character's "hit points" are divided among all his hit locations.

The character with CON 62 would look like this...

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head 6 wound or 12 bruise
Torso 18 wound or 36 bruise
R. Arm 6 wound or 12 bruise
R. Hand 6 wound or 12 bruise
L. Arm 6 wound or 12 bruise
R. Arm 6 wound or 12 bruise
R. Leg 6 wound or 12 bruise
L. Leg 6 wound or 12 bruise
---------------------------------
60 120</pre>[/QUOTE]When you roll damage (typically 1D6 for pistols), those damage points are taken directly from the wound points at the hit location. Once he character takes 6 wound points to the R. Hand, for example, his R. Hand is useless.

If he takes double that amount of damage to his right hand (12 points of wound, or 24 points of bruise), then his right hand is obliterated, maybe detached from the body, but certainly destroyed and completely useless.




What about transferring that idea to Traveller? We could use my Damage Threshold idea to do it.

Average the three physical stats to determine the character's damage threshold. Then, allow that many points for each hit location. (The Torso can take more damage, as in TSSI).

On an average character (physical stats 777), his hit locations will take 7 points of damage.

We could say something like...

Superficial Wound to the location when less than 7 points of damage are allocated.

Stun applied to the body part when more than 7 points of damage are applied.

Unconscious/Minor Wound to the body part when twice the damage threshold is exceeded (14 points, in our example here).

Serious Wound requiring surgery and medical attention when thrice the damage threshold is exceeded (21 points).

Character Death would occur (or have a chance to occur) when vital parts of the body are hit (Serious Wounds to Head or Torso...and to other parts of the body with a harder check).

Whenever a Serious Wound occurs to a vital part of the body, there would be a Death Check called for. "Character's head was hit with 25 points of damage. That's a Serious Wound. Let's check to see if he dies immediately...".

This needs work and some more thought, but you get the idea.

What do you think?

 

[Supplement Four]

Hey, here's an idea to play with. Consider my DAMAGE THRESHOLD idea.

In TSSI, a character's CON score is divided by 10, and those points are allocated to the body's ten hit locations.

If the TSSI character has a CON score of 62, then each of the body's ten hit locations can take 6 points of wound damage before being destroyed (double that for bruise damage).

This character's hand, with a CON 62, could take 6 points of damage in his right hand, for example. 12 points if it was bruise damage.

The torso area can take 3 times the damage of the hand, so 18 points of damage to the chest will kill this character (or 36 points of bruise damage).

Basically, in TSSI, a character's "hit points" are divided among all his hit locations.

The character with CON 62 would look like this...

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head 6 wound or 12 bruise
Torso 18 wound or 36 bruise
R. Arm 6 wound or 12 bruise
R. Hand 6 wound or 12 bruise
L. Arm 6 wound or 12 bruise
R. Arm 6 wound or 12 bruise
R. Leg 6 wound or 12 bruise
L. Leg 6 wound or 12 bruise
---------------------------------
60 120</pre>[/QUOTE]When you roll damage (typically 1D6 for pistols), those damage points are taken directly from the wound points at the hit location. Once he character takes 6 wound points to the R. Hand, for example, his R. Hand is useless.

If he takes double that amount of damage to his right hand (12 points of wound, or 24 points of bruise), then his right hand is obliterated, maybe detached from the body, but certainly destroyed and completely useless.




What about transferring that idea to Traveller? We could use my Damage Threshold idea to do it.

Average the three physical stats to determine the character's damage threshold. Then, allow that many points for each hit location. (The Torso can take more damage, as in TSSI).

On an average character (physical stats 777), his hit locations will take 7 points of damage.

We could say something like...

Superficial Wound to the location when less than 7 points of damage are allocated.

Stun applied to the body part when more than 7 points of damage are applied.

Unconscious/Minor Wound to the body part when twice the damage threshold is exceeded (14 points, in our example here).

Serious Wound requiring surgery and medical attention when thrice the damage threshold is exceeded (21 points).

Character Death would occur (or have a chance to occur) when vital parts of the body are hit (Serious Wounds to Head or Torso...and to other parts of the body with a harder check).

Whenever a Serious Wound occurs to a vital part of the body, there would be a Death Check called for. "Character's head was hit with 25 points of damage. That's a Serious Wound. Let's check to see if he dies immediately...".

This needs work and some more thought, but you get the idea.

What do you think?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
S4, I like that idea, but I prefer to have a system that allows me to specify the target for pinpoint shot.

I allow that in my game. I just do a Called Shot. A penalty DM is applied to the attack roll, but if successful, the character hits what he is aiming at.

And this gives seemingly reasonable added damage for hitting dangerous locations.

As I said before, in my game, if the target's head it hit, it means more damage. If his arm is hit, it means less damage. And, all other hit locations receive regular damage.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ishmael James:
S4, I like that idea, but I prefer to have a system that allows me to specify the target for pinpoint shot.

I allow that in my game. I just do a Called Shot. A penalty DM is applied to the attack roll, but if successful, the character hits what he is aiming at.

And this gives seemingly reasonable added damage for hitting dangerous locations.

As I said before, in my game, if the target's head it hit, it means more damage. If his arm is hit, it means less damage. And, all other hit locations receive regular damage.