How does a Colt 'Navy' work?

[Todg]

Why?

There seems to be a lot simnpler, easier ways to do this. Unless you have a Wookie.

Some technologies just get superceded. The bow (and crossbow) are basically used only by archaic weapons enthusiast. Even when it comes to silent killing, there are firearms that are much more lethal, have greater firepower and just as quiet if not more so.

Of course, Traveller has TL 15 marines with cutlasses. In that universe, a TL15 gravitic crossbow makes sense.

 

[SanDragon]

*cough* How quaint. You've essentially taken a gauss rifle, stripped out the electromagnetic accelerators, thrown in gravitic accelerators, and stuck bow arches on one end.

Umm... why?

 

[Uncle Bob]

Electromagnetic forces are orders of magnitude greater than gravitic forces, so you can just put a coil around the proj`ectile. I think we have that, already.

No reason you couldn't rig a coil gun to fire a broadhead quarrel at 200 m/s. Except that it would kick like a mule0.

 

[veltyen]

I meant it more as a curio/rarity rather then a common weapon. Something to be found in the personal effects of hunting nobles, and very occasionally in use elsewhere.

Why? Mainly because I think crossbows are cool.

Here are a couple of quick sketches.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Is there any reason why a gravitics launch mechanism would be seperated like that? Gravity obeys the inverse square law, so a design like that is hopelessly inefficient, however you imagine that gravitics work.

Try again. Maybe a stabilizer? A fashion statement? A stereoscopic rangefinder? (Hey, that might work!)

 

[veltyen]

Do repulsors/tractors use gravitic principles? I could be wrong on that but I thought they were related. If you like you can think of it a dual focused mini-tractor beams.

If they are point attractors, then you cannot have one as the projectile will need to pass through the attactor. If it isn't possible to build a toiroidal attractor then two seperate ones are your next best bet. If they interfere with each other, then they need to be seperated, and you end up with the design given. That seems far too much justification already, I'll happily settle for handwavium.

Certainly it is a fashion statement. I've never said it would be as effective as a conventional rifle or a gauss weapon, just as something different.

Now if there was any reasonable way to build in an ominous hum I'd be set.

 

[parmasson]

I just thought it would be kind of funny to have a crossbow with a ¼ ton pull for your battledress.

 

[SanDragon]

"ominous hum..." I love it!

And a 1/4 ton pull?!?!?

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by veltyen:

Hmm, looks suspiciously familiar

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
No reason you couldn't rig a coil gun to fire a broadhead quarrel at 200 m/s. Except that it would kick like a mule.

The typical broadhead weighs about 100 -120 gns. A modern composite arrow weighs in about 10gn per inch and about 20 inches for 200 gns for the shaft and a total weight of the projectile of about 320gn.

The typical modern crossbow weighs about 7 pounds. The fastest crossbow I am aware of (Excalibur ExoMax) generates 355fps velocity. This gives a recoil energy (after converting to SI units) of 1 joule. If we increase the arrow velocity to 200 m/s we up the recoil energy to 3 J.

Buy comapison, an M16 generates 5J of recoil energy.

Hardly a 'kick like a mule'.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Unless you want to look really cool while being exceptionally silent! No muzzle blast, no need to silence the weapon, and no smoke to give away your position. And, you can use it on a low TL world without violating the Prime Directive! (Oh, wait,

wrong game....)

Too bad bow weapons are such poor killera. Sure, your weapon is silent, but the guy shot with the arrow or bolt can raise holy hell before he bleeds to death. Contrary to movies, TV and fantasy book, bow weapons - including crossbows - are very rarely instantly fatal (Boramir's death in LOTR was not unrealistic).
The primary mechanism for death by bow weapon is blood loss. And even bleed out from a heart shot this can take 45 seconds. That's a very long time. Ask any bowhunter how long they had to track their prey before the thing died.

There is no 'hydrostatic' shock effect from a bow. Generally speaking, you don't get much effect for any projectile at under 600 m/s - but even a subsonic bullet generates about 100x the kinetic energy of the fasted bow thrown arrow or bolt and can shatter organs and disrupt the whole vervous system, leading to instant or near instant incapacitation.

With the silent crossbow, it's not unlikely you get something like:

'Fwwwiippppp.'

"Arg! Help! Somebody just shot me! Hurry!"

 

[Valarian]

Originally posted by Corejob:

Originally posted by Fritz88:
[qb] With the silent crossbow, it's not unlikely you get something like:

'Fwwwiippppp.'

"Arg! Help! Somebody just shot me! Hurry!"

Called Shot! Make sure the first arrow/bolt goes through the throat. No screaming. Lots of gurgling, but no screaming.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Hey, Valarian, credit Corejob with that one!

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by Valarian:
Called Shot! Make sure the first arrow/bolt goes through the throat. No screaming. Lots of gurgling, but no screaming.

Maybe if you're William tell and only 30 or 40 yards away. Crossbows aren't terribly accurate - and that includes modern scope equipped crossbows.

 

[veltyen]

A high tech guided head cutter bolt might do it though.

Not a TL7- toy though. You could start on something like this at TL8+ (needed for the active guidance). If you're going down that path you might as well use a guided bullet instead. Something that shatters into a conical spray on contact.

 

[Border Reiver]

by corejob

There is no 'hydrostatic' shock effect from a bow. Generally speaking, you don't get much effect for any projectile at under 600 m/s - but even a subsonic bullet generates about 100x the kinetic energy of the fasted bow thrown arrow or bolt and can shatter organs and disrupt the whole vervous system, leading to instant or near instant incapacitation.

There is no such thing as hydrostatic shock. What kills with a bullet is the cavitation caused by the projectiles path (or that of associated bone fragments), temporary cavitation of non elastic tissues such as brain, spinal or liver tissue and associated blood loss and shock. Shattered organs and nervous system shut downs are a total myth, arrant nonsense.

The human body is not a closed water system and even some pieces of medical equipment (such as that used to break down kidney/gall stones) can set up overpressures far in excess of that caused by even a 7.62 NATO's temporary cavitation without any tissue damage.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I think it has been proposed (and published in IWBR) that a shock to the spinal cord can cause inapacitation. The tempoary cavity caused by HV rife round certainly represents enough presure to shock the spinal cord.

Which in an odd, left-handed way is almost hydrostatic shock.

 

[Todg]

There's a great deal of argument in the firearms community about what hydrostatic shock is and does it actually exist. Regardless of your position, extensive studies who finding were published in SIPRI's 'Antipersinnel Weapons' show that there is a definite difference in the probability of a combatant being incapacitated depending on whether the projectile velocity was above or below the 600m/s threshold.

Discussions of temporary vs. permanent would cavity and other matters are probably too esoteric for this forum. The point of the matter is that high velocity clugs have a profoundly different method of incapacitation compared to low velocity ones. Anyone with real world (that is, anecdotal) experience will tell you that bow weapon are rarely instantly incapacitating on medium game, where are rifles are almost always so, provided a vital area is hit.

 

[shadowdragon]

ever see what happens when you shoot a block of clay with a gun?

nope, no shockwave at all..

on another note:
human=puny
deer>puny
drop the average human in the forest buck nekkid and he die
drop average deer buck nekkid in town? he find roses and eat them.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Clay is a bad example (so is soap) because it is inelastic and any distortion or displacement is exaggerrated and preserved.

It is more proper to say that whatever shockwaves are generated are quickly damped and absorbed without major trauma, unless the bullet transects inelastic media like the brain or liver.