Marcatlas
SOC-12
Right. But that isn't the speed of the universe. It is simply something someone choose as a reference. Sorry
General How does maneuver drive propel?
- Thread starter Leitz
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
What are you sorry for?
The milky way is measured at 552km/s relative to the CMB, the CMB could itself be moving which makes things worse for you since it means your motionless ship may now have to accelerate to near c to catch up...
I take it you don't understand reference frames, would you like some basic reading?
Again start here but follow the links to learn more. There are also some really useful books on the subject.
en.wikipedia.org
The milky way is measured at 552km/s relative to the CMB, the CMB could itself be moving which makes things worse for you since it means your motionless ship may now have to accelerate to near c to catch up...
I take it you don't understand reference frames, would you like some basic reading?
Again start here but follow the links to learn more. There are also some really useful books on the subject.
Inertial frame of reference - Wikipedia
Marcatlas
SOC-12
Right. But the CMB isn't the speed of the universe (aether)
Marcatlas
SOC-12
Perfect!The ship is stationary, and drive moves the universe around it, that's why you don't need inertial compensation.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is no aether. The rate of expansion of the universe varies with distance, it is currently estimated to be ~72km per second per megaparsec.
Which again makes things worse for you motionless ship.
Which again makes things worse for you motionless ship.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That's the TL28 reality drive in T5.The ship is stationary, and drive moves the universe around it, that's why you don't need inertial compensation.
Marcatlas
SOC-12
It's real world physics.
In the absence of friction, an object in motion remains in motion with the same vector until something else acts upon it.
Right, I get that part. What I haven't seen explained is how M drive actually works. I realize that whatever science is behind the M drive doesn't exist yet, but I do not understand how M-X continues to accelerate at a rate of X. If it's reaction, then it needs a lot more fuel to keep going. If it's gravity, doesn't it need something to push against?
Apologies for the delay in responding, I got one email about a reply to the thread and then got sidetracked.
Actually, that's the concept behind large nuclear weapons. You don't have to actually hit the target to destroy things, the ground burst will spread radioactive dust that will change civilization for decades. An EMP would be devastating over a financial data hub like London or NYC. If you're going to send one, might as well send them all while you can.
Marcatlas
SOC-12
Depends on edition. In the Cepheus version it is a Grav drive. Gravity isn't something you can push against. Any such explanation ignores what gravity is. Gravity is a space curvature. A grav drive would be a drive that creates a gravity well that the ship "falls" towards. Or, it could create a "hill" which causes the ship to move away from. Mega Traveller stated that teh M drive utilizes gravitons that naturally exist and does something with them. Not really a viable explanation as the drive wouldn't work even an extremely short distance from a planet.
IMTU, the m-drive cuts off the mass of the ship from the ‘real’ universe, then the more or less continuous heat exhaust from the power plants push a ship that now ‘weighs’ kilograms.
Heavy grav lifters or actual reaction thrust are required to get the ship off the ground enough to allow the mass nullification field to form.
Fun side effects, when you weigh kilograms that ship is vulnerable to weather, you really want to get that 1G minimum ‘thrust’ going, else it’s effectively a leaf.
Strictly ATU, just to get ideas going. Somebody comes up with something better, I’m definitely up forstealing improving my conception.
Heavy grav lifters or actual reaction thrust are required to get the ship off the ground enough to allow the mass nullification field to form.
Fun side effects, when you weigh kilograms that ship is vulnerable to weather, you really want to get that 1G minimum ‘thrust’ going, else it’s effectively a leaf.
Strictly ATU, just to get ideas going. Somebody comes up with something better, I’m definitely up for
Marcatlas
SOC-12
But there is no exhaust from a ship's power plant.
Krikkitone
SOC-12
Well you could also push on the mass that makes the gravity well from a great distance (like 10 or 1000 diameters) by utilizing your gravitics. (sort of like an extra broad tractor beam…everything in here is pushed away /pulled toward at a high G)
Mega Traveller also stated there were some quantum effects. (so perhaps it’s pushing on all the vacuum energy)
IMTU there are two Manuever drives
1. The Gravitic ones, TL9+ they effectively push on a very large mass (up to 10 of its diameters away)….
Downside: as you go faster relative to that mass you get less thrust in the direction you are moving (so you can still stop rapidly, but it’s hard to speed up)… which means Energy is conserved the Kinetic energy of the ship is to be matched by the power going into it…so the G number drops off
2. The pseudo velocity “Thruster” ones TL11+
in this case it doesn’t actually increase the velocity of the ship, but increases/changes the strength of a field that moves the space around the ship with the ship (the field remains at the same strength unless it gets interference ie other stuff in the field gets swept up and the field loses strength)
“Downside”: a Speed limit based on tidal fields so that you can’t ram a planet
(speed limit is highest ~10-1000 D from a massive body and drops off on either side…at about 1D its effectively 0 and the Drives have to use their Gravitic functionality
You also can’t ram a smaller ship because it will just get swept into the field along with you.
This makes planetary ship bombardment fairly impractical, since if you launch your attack with a Thruster it will just fall onto the planet, might smash a building from its weight.
A gravitic one would only get so fast before it was too far from a body to accelerate any more… doable, but the other issues raised like hard to stealth would affect it.
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Torch ships are cool, so that is what I use, and they run on pure ...
Marcatlas
SOC-12
But gravity is a spacial distortion not a beam of any type. So the only way to use "gravity" is to use spacial distortion to move one. Just like it causes objects to slide "down" a gravity well. At least according to everything we've been able to observe anyway.
I had a friend (passed away >20 years ago) who was an SR 71 pilot out of Beale. We became friends after he had retired. Anyway he said that he had studied observation data about those UFOs that have been on videos for decades including all the radar, IR and visual info and other reports from military pilots. He and some colleagues concluded that they move by a means that is not a reaction drive. Also no fusion power as the IR signature is far too low. The movement when analyzed was up to an acceleration of 200G's. Fighter planes that had gotten very close were tossed around violently and it had nothing to do with turbulence. So, he said it was most likely some type of gravitic "propulsion" device based on all the evidence.
That’s your opinion. Plenty of thruster type appliances strapped onto virtually every classic ship illustration and deck plan. Just have to change the mindset from reaction only to smokestack first/push second.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
For the very latest definition of how the m-drive works then take a look at the new MgT SOM.
In the past it went like this
CT pp tied to m-drive makes thrust, using a certain amount of fuel for each burn.
CT HG79 m-drive is a fusion drive that can be used as a rocket
CT HG80 undefined
CT 81 undefined
MT every bit of handwavium you can throw at it
TNE HEPlaR (a plasma rocket)
T4 thrusters similar to MT, and HEPlaR
T5 gravitcis handwavium
MgT gravitics handwavium.
In the past it went like this
CT pp tied to m-drive makes thrust, using a certain amount of fuel for each burn.
CT HG79 m-drive is a fusion drive that can be used as a rocket
CT HG80 undefined
CT 81 undefined
MT every bit of handwavium you can throw at it
TNE HEPlaR (a plasma rocket)
T4 thrusters similar to MT, and HEPlaR
T5 gravitcis handwavium
MgT gravitics handwavium.
