How Politically Correct is your TU?

[jatay3]

Personally, I'd prefer an all male army. Not because I don't think women are capable (I know quite a few who are much more capable than me), but because someone needs to "guard the home front".

Given current advances in B&C technology (biological and chemical), it's possible to produce something that sterilizes rather than kills. If everyone goes off to fight and someone uses something like this, the end result becomes a loosing senario.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

The Imperial Army is a professional army not a mass army. The Emperor prefers to keep it that way. Never know whats going to happen, if the darned peasants get into politics and the best way to keep them out of politics is to keep them out of war.


So there will always be someone keeping the home-fires burning.

In canon the Imperial Marines are legally unisex which says nothing about effects of local custom. As Aslan marines have segregated units they are presumably all male.The army varies from regiment to regiment.

As for MTU it takes place in a culture that is just outside the Imperium and I make it the way I want, and no it's not PC.

 

[jatay3]

In point of fact, I never liked that "Space is a free-love heaven" trope. Besides sounding "icky" it sounds over exotic and over-preachy. I made the mores of my planet fairly conventional, with obscure variations in custom.
However the law has nothing to do with it. Sexual morality is the business of religion and the clans and the clans would consider it an insult to their dignity for the law to interfere. It is enforced by social pressure but not by law.
Women are not allowed in combat arms because it is considered improper to womanhood for a woman to be a professional killer(just like a medic or a cleric can't be). Likewise there are no female butchers. Women sometimes train in arms or martial arts as a minor rather then a major training aspect. Women have a monopoly on the legislative branch, and on most of home-based politics.
Marriages are often arranged but only the ruling class can be forced to marry. This leads to romantic poetry about people who resigned for love, or people who didn't and regretted it.

This is of course a society outside the Imperium. The Imperium follows canon more or less.

 

[BwapTED]

Wow, this thread took some necromancing - I didn't see it before, cos it died before I even joined!
Still, it looks like an interesting topic.

My TU? Well, I have the Imperium dealing with a few High Laws, which they expect member worlds to enforce dirtside. Failure to do so would bring whatever political/military pressure was necessary to bring the local government on side.

Not an exclusive list, but:
No Nukes (or WMDs)
No Interference with Interstellar Commerce
No Murder
No Rape
No Torture
No Slavery
No Exploitation of Minors

These are the Imperium's Seven Deadly Sins, which will be prosecuted wherever they raise their ugly heads.
However, raise them they do, and the PCs may find themselves in the thick of it - fighting it, reporting it, perpetrating it...

My Imperium is far less concerned with those sorts of crimes. Such things are matters for local (world) governments- unless they take place in space directly under Imperial control: outspace, jumpspace, a starport, a military base, on Capital, etc. If Imperial civil servants or military personnel are directly involved, that may be also cause for intervention.

 

[Icosahedron]

My Imperium is far less concerned with those sorts of crimes. Such things are matters for local (world) governments- unless they take place in space directly under Imperial control: outspace, jumpspace, a starport, a military base, on Capital, etc. If Imperial civil servants or military personnel are directly involved, that may be also cause for intervention.

So your Imperials would be happy to supply a guy with money for oranges and lemons when he's just bought a fourteen year old girl from the neighbouring stall, asked if she's a virgin and then had her branded with his household mark?

Your players must face even more moral dilemmas than mine.

 

[BwapTED]

So your Imperials would be happy to supply a guy with money for oranges and lemons when he's just bought a fourteen year old girl from the neighbouring stall, asked if she's a virgin and then had her branded with his household mark?

Your players must face even more moral dilemmas than mine.

Well, slavery is illegal. Enforcement beyond the extrality line is left up to local governments, as a general rule.

The Imperium is limited in powers and jurisdiction.
Look at our own government. Rape isn't normally a federal crime. Doesn't mean that the feds endorse rape.


The Imperium is also limited in resources. It has to police the vast space among 11k worlds, and thousands of starports and bases! It just does not have the ability to interfere in all the ugly little crimes that may happen on member planets.


My Imperium is very much the old school ' rules space, not worlds' Imperium.

 

[jatay3]

Local nobles probably do a bit of imperious arm-twisting about that sort of thing too, outside official law.

 

[BwapTED]

Local nobles probably do a bit of imperious arm-twisting about that sort of thing too, outside official law.

Sure, but some of those nobles turn a blind eye to such nefarious activities- or even participate.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Those who participate and get caught could face far greater punishments than just being stripped of all the trappings and titles as a Noble. They become held up as Examples Of What Not To Do. There are special agent and writs issued when rumours of this sort get reported, they are looked into, if found to have a thread of truth, then the ball gets rolling.

Remember, Imperial Nobles are directly answerable to the Imperial House if they are found to have misused thier granted office, or worse, engaged in behaviours that refect badly on the Emporer.

Thats how the cookie crumbles.

 

[jatay3]

Sure, but some of those nobles turn a blind eye to such nefarious activities- or even participate.

I would think that if they do participate, they would do so at at a level appropriate to the price of getting caught. In other words, it's probably rare for it to be done if the profit is not substantial.

 

[jatay3]

Actually charging blackmail/protection to such like might be more likely then participation.

 

[jatay3]

Those who participate and get caught could face far greater punishments than just being stripped of all the trappings and titles as a Noble. They become held up as Examples Of What Not To Do. There are special agent and writs issued when rumours of this sort get reported, they are looked into, if found to have a thread of truth, then the ball gets rolling.

Remember, Imperial Nobles are directly answerable to the Imperial House if they are found to have misused thier granted office, or worse, engaged in behaviours that refect badly on the Emporer.

Thats how the cookie crumbles.

The Imperial Nobility must be a shame society kept together by identity as an attraction and ostracism as a punishment. They couldn't have cooperated so long otherwise.

 

[BwapTED]

The Imperial Nobility must be a shame society kept together by identity as an attraction and ostracism as a punishment. They couldn't have cooperated so long otherwise.

That's my assumption. It's an honor culture- very unlike modern day mainstream America.

 

[BwapTED]

Those who participate and get caught could face far greater punishments than just being stripped of all the trappings and titles as a Noble. They become held up as Examples Of What Not To Do. There are special agent and writs issued when rumours of this sort get reported, they are looked into, if found to have a thread of truth, then the ball gets rolling.

Remember, Imperial Nobles are directly answerable to the Imperial House if they are found to have misused thier granted office, or worse, engaged in behaviours that refect badly on the Emporer.

Thats how the cookie crumbles.

IMTU:

Being 'called to Capital' in disgrace is the fear of many a corrupt noble. The Emperor might have you exiled, stripped of rank and title, etc. He might attaint your family holdings with approval from the Moot! If you have been a very, very naughty boy, the Emperor might even decide to have you executed by firing squad.

Of course, greed, ambition, lust, etc can and do drive some nobles to abuse their authority for personal pleasure and profit.

 

[jatay3]

That's my assumption. It's an honor culture- very unlike modern day mainstream America.

Honor societies shouldn't be idealized to much. They have to be enforced by ostracism which is sometimes incredibly cruel. And the line between honor and pride or even petty vanity and spite is often exceedingly grey. Honor societies at their best are well, honorable, and encourage behavior that is both laudable and aesthetically pleasing. Honor societies at their worst are quite vicious. Our society is arguably not honorable enough. But romanticizing honor societies to much(outside of fiction of course) is an error.

But the fact is, the Imperial nobility must be self-enforcing to some degree. Any noble-caste must be if it is to be successful.

 

[jatay3]

IMTU:

Being 'called to Capital' in disgrace is the fear of many a corrupt noble. The Emperor might have you exiled, stripped of rank and title, etc. He might attaint your family holdings with approval from the Moot! If you have been a very, very naughty boy, the Emperor might even decide to have you executed by firing squad.

Of course, greed, ambition, lust, etc can and do drive some nobles to abuse their authority for personal pleasure and profit.

Or just have you carted through the worst parts of town on a wheelbarrow for local ruffians to throw trash at you.

And have a holotape be made of you while this is happening and send it to all parts of the Imperium as a lesson .

 

[BwapTED]

Honor societies shouldn't be idealized to much. They have to be enforced by ostracism which is sometimes incredibly cruel. And the line between honor and pride or even petty vanity and spite is often exceedingly grey. Honor societies at their best are well, honorable, and encourage behavior that is both laudable and aesthetically pleasing. Honor societies at their worst are quite vicious. Our society is arguably not honorable enough. But romanticizing honor societies to much(outside of fiction of course) is an error.

But the fact is, the Imperial nobility must be self-enforcing to some degree. Any noble-caste must be if it is to be successful.

Yep. I am partial to honor societies in real life and in fiction, but your points are all well-taken.

The Imperial system really only works if most of the nobles have a sense of honor and noblesse oblige. Once the aristocracy loses sight of why it exists, things break down.

It would be interesting to discuss this in light of the Rebellion. Had the Imperium grown decadent? Had values decayed among the nobility? Was the old system honor no longer able to keep things on course? All very vague, I know- but catastrophic collpases of authority and order like the Rebellion are about more than assassinations and fleet movements, methinks.

 

[BwapTED]

Or just have you carted through the worst parts of town on a wheelbarrow for local ruffians to throw trash at you.

And have a holotape be made of you while this is happening and send it to all parts of the Imperium as a lesson .

Shame! Hell, yeah.

 

[jatay3]

Yep. I am partial to honor societies in real life and in fiction, but your points are all well-taken.

The Imperial system really only works if most of the nobles have a sense of honor and noblesse oblige. Once the aristocracy loses sight of why it exists, things break down.

It would be interesting to discuss this in light of the Rebellion. Had the Imperium grown decadent? Had values decayed among the nobility? Was the old system honor no longer able to keep things on course? All very vague, I know- but catastrophic collpases of authority and order like the Rebellion are about more than assassinations and fleet movements, methinks.

That's the cliche answer. It is usually given when a fictional society starts to decay.

Another cliche is that a hero or antihero is the only one who is really honorable. Think Lando Mollari or Leto Atreides. Though Mollari could be a beastly fellow at times.

 

[jatay3]

Shame! Hell, yeah.

The problem is that America is a factionalized society and thus cannot agree on what is worthy of shame. The opinion of a faction that someone has already to some degree ostracized-by-default is a limited threat. That is a point similar to the point whhs made to the anarchist over at Steve Jackson Games, that effectively argued that protection be sold by Condottieri rather then the government; no one will agree on the proper penalty. You were in that argument if you are the same Combatmedic so you might remember the point.

Obviously some would say that is simply the price of freedom and of course it is. But eternal annoyance, is as much the price of freedom as eternal vigilance. You have to live with what you get.

 

[Spinward Scout]

The problem is that America is a factionalized society and thus cannot agree on what is worthy of shame.

Made even harder when corruption or crime whistleblowers become a target of shaming - when a good person is shamed, the honor system is then corrupted. I can't go into more detail than that, because I don't want to cross the 'No Politics' rule.