One of the best campaines I ever ran the characters toke a Beowulf class type A Free Trader removed all the passenger area upgraded the power plant tech level and converted it to a J-2 M-2 cargo trader. This work well in the Game becouse they had eought cargo area to make some money and with the upgraded power plant they add 2 triple beam laser turrents
Ideal Player ship
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
"What is the ideal ship for an adventuring party? Scout/Merchant/paramilitary?"
Murph,
As you point out in your original question and as many of those who have responded point out too, it all depends on what style campaign you are running. Of course, a campaign's style can change rather quickly!
Here's how the ship question usually got answered during my playing days:
Scout - Either the classic 100dT Suleiman or any of the 150-200dT 'stretch' or 'modular' versions. There are lots of 100+ dT courier plans floating around the web, plus Andrew Moffatt-Vallance's superb HGS program makes building you own so easy even I can do it.
PCs with scout craft can be roped into so many adventures, especially if they have those slightly larger 'stretch' or 'modular' versions. They come out of jump, contact the port, and get a sooper-dooper priority squawk back from the local scout commander. Next thin they know, there's all sort of special equipment aboard, lots of red shirt NPCs, and they're thrusting for the jump limit on a mission the NPC team leader isn't talking much about.
Paramilitary - The classic type-T or merc cruiser here. Big enough to have 'fun' with, but small enough not to swamp the PCs with all those other charecters.
Merchant - The far trader by a wide margin. It has the legs but lacks the room to easily earn it's way. Having the PCs scrounging for credits is always a good move.
After HG2 came out, I designed a J2/M1 300dT free trader my PCs took a shine to. It had enough turrets to defend itself, but would not have made a good ECM. It also could turn a nice profit using just the hold capacity. The PCs eventually settled into travelling along a multi-subsector trade loop in the Foreven Sector. Completing the circuit took almost a year of game time besides gaving the PCs new places to visit and old haunts to come back to.
Sincerely,
Larsen
Murph,
As you point out in your original question and as many of those who have responded point out too, it all depends on what style campaign you are running. Of course, a campaign's style can change rather quickly!
Here's how the ship question usually got answered during my playing days:
Scout - Either the classic 100dT Suleiman or any of the 150-200dT 'stretch' or 'modular' versions. There are lots of 100+ dT courier plans floating around the web, plus Andrew Moffatt-Vallance's superb HGS program makes building you own so easy even I can do it.
PCs with scout craft can be roped into so many adventures, especially if they have those slightly larger 'stretch' or 'modular' versions. They come out of jump, contact the port, and get a sooper-dooper priority squawk back from the local scout commander. Next thin they know, there's all sort of special equipment aboard, lots of red shirt NPCs, and they're thrusting for the jump limit on a mission the NPC team leader isn't talking much about.
Paramilitary - The classic type-T or merc cruiser here. Big enough to have 'fun' with, but small enough not to swamp the PCs with all those other charecters.
Merchant - The far trader by a wide margin. It has the legs but lacks the room to easily earn it's way. Having the PCs scrounging for credits is always a good move.
After HG2 came out, I designed a J2/M1 300dT free trader my PCs took a shine to. It had enough turrets to defend itself, but would not have made a good ECM. It also could turn a nice profit using just the hold capacity. The PCs eventually settled into travelling along a multi-subsector trade loop in the Foreven Sector. Completing the circuit took almost a year of game time besides gaving the PCs new places to visit and old haunts to come back to.
Sincerely,
Larsen
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
WARNING!
This is a little long but I hope you find it worth the read. It goes back a page in this thread to a posting by Baron Saarthuran...
-------
To:
Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan
Sidur Haski system
Laeth subsector
Gushemege sector
From:
Imperial Design Standards
Re:
Saano Shipyard
ITC Free Trader
Sir,
Your recent design has come to our attention through a casual review by one of our naval architects who was much taken by the general concept and layout. However a few problems have been found which we must address before we can permit its licensed construction. These concerns are addressed in the attached holographic files which will require a minimum of 95 terraquads of free computer space and IntelliCAD 993 ver. 4.5.8
J. D. B. INA
IDS
-------
Greetings Baron,
Sorry for the delay in replying, hope the little in character fun makes up for it and softens the criticism a little. Like I said, when I first saw the design notes it sounded interesting and when I had a look at the deckplans I liked my first glance. However when I looked closer at both I found a few problems that needed fixing before I could adopt it for my game. This may ramble a bit and get a little long but I'll try to stay linear and not miss anything while being as brief as possible
My first attempts to run the numbers didn't quite jive with yours. I came up with 16.0dT left and Mcr28.06 under your single build cost. This could be accounted for from the "backup" jump and maneuver systems you list, which I don't quite understand. Daunted but not beaten I decided to look closer at the deckplans for some clues. Nice art btw, what's it done with? It reminds me of the deFrog (iirc) shipyards work but the link is no good anymore. Right so back to the deckplans.
Right off, on closer examination, after the first glance thrill, I hit a problem. Each of your staterooms were 4.0dT if I had the scale right, the standard being 1.5m wide corridors. True this is what the design sequence requires but for deckplans you have to remember that a good portion of that (1.5dT per according to T20 though I find 2.0dT works better) is for the corridors, common spaces, and such. This meant right away that I was going to have to rescale or redesign with fewer staterooms.
Challenged now, and since I was rebuilding I also decided to fix the ship's computer. You have a model 1bis running model 3 sensors and communications which is by strict T20 rules not allowed. This may be an oversight or a house rule that wasn't stated. The model 1bis will allow J2 and model 2 avionics but only model 1 sensors and communications, which leads to another minor nit-pick.
You have designed the ship with an Airframe upgrade even though with the model 1 avionics you suffer a -1 agility in atmosphere (personally I think its a bent rule but for this I'm going strictly by the book) and with only 2g maneuver you gain nothing in atmospheric speed as Fully Streamlined (the base configuration for the flattened sphere hull) allows 2g.
I had also noticed that while the ship is J2 capable you only have enough fuel for a J1 unless you are also using the optional one-half J-fuel rule. This was my assumption, though you didn't mention it, and it fits my reality nicely by allowing this rule at TL15, the same time the breakthrough in drop-tank support of Jump drives comes in.
Well, after a couple more quick workthroughs trying to get it to all fit into 200dT and stay close to your deckplans I took a different tack. I decided to use the deckplans as the guide.
So taking the staterooms as double, I doubled the number available, doubling the passenger capacity and giving the crew a little more room, though later I cut a couple middle passage staterooms. The lowberths area and vehicle hanger were so nicely mirrored and the standard G-car only needs 8dT anyway so I made them both the same 8.0dT. Instead of a "backup" J drive I decided to take the meaning to be extra fuel, so using the one-half J fuel rule I designed in enough for a J2 + J1 allowing a safety reserve or a two-jump crossing of J3 spans. I also increased the maneuver drive to 3g to take advantage of the Airframe upgrade. Naturally all this was increasing the overall ship size, which I finally settled in at 300dT. The cargo was just shy of 50dT at this time so I decided to implement the optional small ship small bay weapon rule and used two of the three hardpoints for the bay, leaving one forward dorsal small turret of 1dT. This gives the ship a dedicated weapon and the option to put in a nice missile bay to go off on Q missions. Publicizing this feature further helps discourage those who might be tempted to hold up ships of this class. To support the desired model 3 sensors I installed a model 3 main computer, and just because I like my ship's computer in even dT I stuck with the model 1 avionics and model 2 commo to fill it out to 2.0dT. This and the fuel load allows an easy future upgrade of the J drive to J3 if desired. The model 3 main computer also gives a bonus in combat. The powerplant is large enough to handle the upgrade because of the extra energy required for the maneuver drive. The 9EP for the maneuver can be allocated by the engineer to thrust (3EP per g), agility (3EP per point) and/or the turret (of which 3EP works nice for a triple laser).
As a MTU note I allow that hardpoints allocated towards small ship small weapons bays may be used for turrets if the bay is not used for a bay weapon and the actual turret must be of the pop-up variety (with the increased cost and legality issues). These pop-up turrets must be retracted to jump and they decrease the overall streamlining by one factor when exposed to fire. They take up the normal turret volume in the cargo/weapons bay when retracted, reducing overall cargo capacity.
So in summation I hope this helps you and others in designing more great ships and you take my critique as a humble constructive opinion. I have to say again, bravo Baron on a nice design and site, it has inspired me and I hope you don't mind my version of your work. I present the ITC Free Trader Version II, commonly called the "Flat Liner" ('cause I couldn't resist).
T20 Design - Medium-Size Starship TL15
Free Trader (Type N)
Though registered as a Free Trader for license reasons the Flat Liner as it is commonly known is primarily a passenger ship, hence the Type N designation for nonstandard. This is a relatively new design but becoming increasingly popular in high tech high pop areas with J2 to J3 routes. The extra J-fuel provides a safety reserve in the unlikely event the ship misjumps though it is often used to allow the ship to span a J3 crossing in two successive Jumps. The 54dT of cargo space helps make the payments and the triple turret, if outfitted with weapons may earn a mail contract for even more revenue. A G-carrier is supplied for surface runs and is capable of orbital trips. The G-car can carry 6-8 passenger's comfortably, or as many as 14 cramped, as well as 2 crew. The seats may also be converted to sleeping for up to 4 people or folded away for 2.0dT of small cargo. The standard crew for the ship is six. A Pilot, Astrogator, Engineer, Steward, Medic and Gunner/Driver. The Pilot and Astrogator typically have a single stateroom each while the others share. Up to two additional crew may be added without impacting passenger revenue. The ship can carry up to eight High Passengers and twelve to twenty-four Middle Passengers. There are also eight low berths, though some versions instead carry a standard two bed sickbay. The ship includes fuel skimming and purification equipment to allow wilderness refueling in an emergency. The main cargo hold is 50dT and may be outfitted as a bay weapon, facilitated by the single large aft hatch/ramp. Additional cargo may be carried on the two small cargo lifts in the cargo airlocks port and starboard, to a total of 4dT more. A large central personnel airlock serves through dorsal and ventral hatches for docking with small craft, or a small lift on worlds. Additionally there are two smaller access points port and starboard in the forward half with retractable conveyor ramps leading to a small landing outside the airlock. In an emergency these ramps can be jettisoned for quicker escape in space. The crew has a small common area just off the bridge. There are two common areas port and starboard in the forward half exclusively for the high passengers. One is a dining area with seating for eight and a small auto galley for times outside of the served meals, the other is a recreation area. Both areas sport a full length, floor to ceiling curved viewport/holoscreen. A single large common area amidships serves as reception and main galley as well as dining and recreation for the middle passengers. The ship costs Mcr115.030 new singly, not including a vehicle or weapons.
TAS Form 3.1 (Condensed)
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">+300.0dT - Flattened sphere hull - fully streamlined - build time 14 months
Mcr024.000
-015.0dT - Airframe upgrade
Mcr002.400
-020.0dT - Bridge - standard - 5 crew stations
Mcr000.100
-002.0dT - Computer - model 3
Avionics - model 1
Sensors - model 3
Commo - model 2
Mcr011.100
-01.0EP
-009.0dT - Jump drive - J2
Mcr036.000
-06.0EP
-045.0dT - jump fuel - J2 + J1
-024.0dT - Maneuver drive - 3g
Mcr012.000
-09.0EP
-005.0dT - Power plant - 10EP
Mcr015.000
+10.0EP
-010.0dT - power fuel - 4weeks
-003.0dT - Fuel purifier and scoops
Mcr000.430
-001.0dT - Hardpoint and Triple Turret
Mcr001.100
-050.0dT - Weapon Bay
Mcr000.500
-096.0dT - Staterooms - x24 total
Mcr012.000
-008.0dT - Lowberths - x8
Mcr000.400
-008.0dT - Vehicle hanger
-004.0dT - Cargo hold/locks</pre>[/QUOTE]Notes - The ship uses both the optional one-half Jump fuel rule and the optional small ship small weapon bay rule. These can both be changed by adding fuel and two more hardpoints for additional turrets, reducing the cargo hold by 17dT for a J2 fuel load and two more small turrets. Cost in this case is reduced to Mcr114.730 singly for new, not including the extra turrets.
My version of the deckplan (in the Journeyman Design Bureau folder in the files section) uses the same color conventions as the one on the Baron's page in his Saano Shipyard section, with the exception of the Engineering spaces being purple and the whole hull fuel voids and airframe surfaces being the same grey shade. The outline and general layout matches pretty close. Some key notes:
A - airlock, personnel
C - closet, lockable but not too secure or airtight
F - fresher, separate from that included in each stateroom
J - jump drive
L - locker, a secure, lockable, vacuum tight storage space
M - maneuver drive
P - power plant
R - refiner, fuel
S - stateroom
T - (in circle) turret access hatch (dashed is overhead, solid is floor)
X - (in circle) emergency escape hatch (dashed is overhead, solid is floor)
My convention for drawing deckplans is one-half the component is the actual item while one-half is required volume for access and such. So you'll see for example the 9.0dT Jump drive takes up ~4.5dT but leaves room around and to it. Desperate ship owners may fill these spaces with cargo but it is in violation of several safety regulations and can result in fines, loss of license, or even seizure of the ship. Not to mention that the cargo and/or equipment may be harmed by the practice and repairs will be impossible. I also use a similar one-half rule for the bridge. The minimum bridge is 20.0dT of which 10.0dT is all the required stuff you don't see and so I don't map it (lifters, attitude control, wiring, exterior lighting, etc.) while the other half is comprised of minimum crew workstations (5 at 5.0dT being a seat and console, which aren't always all on the "bridge"), the personnel airlocks (3.0dT total, in any confugration desired) and the ship's lockers (2.0dT being half locker and half access to it) which contain the minimum required safety equipment as well as tools and spare parts.
The numbers in the circles are how many may sit comfortably at that table. The numbers in the rectangles in the lowberth module are how many berths that freezer frame can hold. The long black lines are bulkheads, and the short dark grey lines on them are sliding vacuum tight doors. The long dark grey lines are interior walls and the short light grey lines on them are simple sliding doors. The very fine grey lines on the long lines are vacuum tight access panels for maintenance. The light blue lines are windows. The broken light grey lines are swing open doors. The dashed green line in the sickbay module is a curtain for privacy for the beds. The sickbay module includes a locker for medication and instruments as well as an airlock to allow quarantine procedures. Each sickbay bed is also a combination autodoc and emergency lowberth for one. The doctors desk folds out to an operating/diagnostic bed, as shown by the light grey lines. The quarter circle in the staterooms is the personal fresher. Two of the high passage staterooms are shown combined into a suite, giving a separate bedroom and day room with larger fresher. Each stateroom includes a second fold down bunk and with both beds folded away there is a foldup table and two chairs for day use. The notched rectangles in the common areas are the auto galley/food services and storage units. The optional sickbay module is shown outside the ship. I made the two 8dT modular fixtures port and starboard identical and swapable through the full width ramp/door. The area is actually 9dT but that includes 1dT of through access to engineering. The lighter shaded area on the bridge is where the forward view screen slopes back, while the same shade in the ship's computer area (cmpt) indicates the area is half height. Hope that's clear, just holler if there's any confusion or omission.
This is a little long but I hope you find it worth the read. It goes back a page in this thread to a posting by Baron Saarthuran...
-------
To:
Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan
Sidur Haski system
Laeth subsector
Gushemege sector
From:
Imperial Design Standards
Re:
Saano Shipyard
ITC Free Trader
Sir,
Your recent design has come to our attention through a casual review by one of our naval architects who was much taken by the general concept and layout. However a few problems have been found which we must address before we can permit its licensed construction. These concerns are addressed in the attached holographic files which will require a minimum of 95 terraquads of free computer space and IntelliCAD 993 ver. 4.5.8
J. D. B. INA
IDS
-------
Greetings Baron,
Sorry for the delay in replying, hope the little in character fun makes up for it and softens the criticism a little. Like I said, when I first saw the design notes it sounded interesting and when I had a look at the deckplans I liked my first glance. However when I looked closer at both I found a few problems that needed fixing before I could adopt it for my game. This may ramble a bit and get a little long but I'll try to stay linear and not miss anything while being as brief as possible
My first attempts to run the numbers didn't quite jive with yours. I came up with 16.0dT left and Mcr28.06 under your single build cost. This could be accounted for from the "backup" jump and maneuver systems you list, which I don't quite understand. Daunted but not beaten I decided to look closer at the deckplans for some clues. Nice art btw, what's it done with? It reminds me of the deFrog (iirc) shipyards work but the link is no good anymore. Right so back to the deckplans.
Right off, on closer examination, after the first glance thrill, I hit a problem. Each of your staterooms were 4.0dT if I had the scale right, the standard being 1.5m wide corridors. True this is what the design sequence requires but for deckplans you have to remember that a good portion of that (1.5dT per according to T20 though I find 2.0dT works better) is for the corridors, common spaces, and such. This meant right away that I was going to have to rescale or redesign with fewer staterooms.
Challenged now, and since I was rebuilding I also decided to fix the ship's computer. You have a model 1bis running model 3 sensors and communications which is by strict T20 rules not allowed. This may be an oversight or a house rule that wasn't stated. The model 1bis will allow J2 and model 2 avionics but only model 1 sensors and communications, which leads to another minor nit-pick.
You have designed the ship with an Airframe upgrade even though with the model 1 avionics you suffer a -1 agility in atmosphere (personally I think its a bent rule but for this I'm going strictly by the book) and with only 2g maneuver you gain nothing in atmospheric speed as Fully Streamlined (the base configuration for the flattened sphere hull) allows 2g.
I had also noticed that while the ship is J2 capable you only have enough fuel for a J1 unless you are also using the optional one-half J-fuel rule. This was my assumption, though you didn't mention it, and it fits my reality nicely by allowing this rule at TL15, the same time the breakthrough in drop-tank support of Jump drives comes in.
Well, after a couple more quick workthroughs trying to get it to all fit into 200dT and stay close to your deckplans I took a different tack. I decided to use the deckplans as the guide.
So taking the staterooms as double, I doubled the number available, doubling the passenger capacity and giving the crew a little more room, though later I cut a couple middle passage staterooms. The lowberths area and vehicle hanger were so nicely mirrored and the standard G-car only needs 8dT anyway so I made them both the same 8.0dT. Instead of a "backup" J drive I decided to take the meaning to be extra fuel, so using the one-half J fuel rule I designed in enough for a J2 + J1 allowing a safety reserve or a two-jump crossing of J3 spans. I also increased the maneuver drive to 3g to take advantage of the Airframe upgrade. Naturally all this was increasing the overall ship size, which I finally settled in at 300dT. The cargo was just shy of 50dT at this time so I decided to implement the optional small ship small bay weapon rule and used two of the three hardpoints for the bay, leaving one forward dorsal small turret of 1dT. This gives the ship a dedicated weapon and the option to put in a nice missile bay to go off on Q missions. Publicizing this feature further helps discourage those who might be tempted to hold up ships of this class. To support the desired model 3 sensors I installed a model 3 main computer, and just because I like my ship's computer in even dT I stuck with the model 1 avionics and model 2 commo to fill it out to 2.0dT. This and the fuel load allows an easy future upgrade of the J drive to J3 if desired. The model 3 main computer also gives a bonus in combat. The powerplant is large enough to handle the upgrade because of the extra energy required for the maneuver drive. The 9EP for the maneuver can be allocated by the engineer to thrust (3EP per g), agility (3EP per point) and/or the turret (of which 3EP works nice for a triple laser).
As a MTU note I allow that hardpoints allocated towards small ship small weapons bays may be used for turrets if the bay is not used for a bay weapon and the actual turret must be of the pop-up variety (with the increased cost and legality issues). These pop-up turrets must be retracted to jump and they decrease the overall streamlining by one factor when exposed to fire. They take up the normal turret volume in the cargo/weapons bay when retracted, reducing overall cargo capacity.
So in summation I hope this helps you and others in designing more great ships and you take my critique as a humble constructive opinion. I have to say again, bravo Baron on a nice design and site, it has inspired me and I hope you don't mind my version of your work. I present the ITC Free Trader Version II, commonly called the "Flat Liner" ('cause I couldn't resist).
T20 Design - Medium-Size Starship TL15
Free Trader (Type N)
Though registered as a Free Trader for license reasons the Flat Liner as it is commonly known is primarily a passenger ship, hence the Type N designation for nonstandard. This is a relatively new design but becoming increasingly popular in high tech high pop areas with J2 to J3 routes. The extra J-fuel provides a safety reserve in the unlikely event the ship misjumps though it is often used to allow the ship to span a J3 crossing in two successive Jumps. The 54dT of cargo space helps make the payments and the triple turret, if outfitted with weapons may earn a mail contract for even more revenue. A G-carrier is supplied for surface runs and is capable of orbital trips. The G-car can carry 6-8 passenger's comfortably, or as many as 14 cramped, as well as 2 crew. The seats may also be converted to sleeping for up to 4 people or folded away for 2.0dT of small cargo. The standard crew for the ship is six. A Pilot, Astrogator, Engineer, Steward, Medic and Gunner/Driver. The Pilot and Astrogator typically have a single stateroom each while the others share. Up to two additional crew may be added without impacting passenger revenue. The ship can carry up to eight High Passengers and twelve to twenty-four Middle Passengers. There are also eight low berths, though some versions instead carry a standard two bed sickbay. The ship includes fuel skimming and purification equipment to allow wilderness refueling in an emergency. The main cargo hold is 50dT and may be outfitted as a bay weapon, facilitated by the single large aft hatch/ramp. Additional cargo may be carried on the two small cargo lifts in the cargo airlocks port and starboard, to a total of 4dT more. A large central personnel airlock serves through dorsal and ventral hatches for docking with small craft, or a small lift on worlds. Additionally there are two smaller access points port and starboard in the forward half with retractable conveyor ramps leading to a small landing outside the airlock. In an emergency these ramps can be jettisoned for quicker escape in space. The crew has a small common area just off the bridge. There are two common areas port and starboard in the forward half exclusively for the high passengers. One is a dining area with seating for eight and a small auto galley for times outside of the served meals, the other is a recreation area. Both areas sport a full length, floor to ceiling curved viewport/holoscreen. A single large common area amidships serves as reception and main galley as well as dining and recreation for the middle passengers. The ship costs Mcr115.030 new singly, not including a vehicle or weapons.
TAS Form 3.1 (Condensed)
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">+300.0dT - Flattened sphere hull - fully streamlined - build time 14 months
Mcr024.000
-015.0dT - Airframe upgrade
Mcr002.400
-020.0dT - Bridge - standard - 5 crew stations
Mcr000.100
-002.0dT - Computer - model 3
Avionics - model 1
Sensors - model 3
Commo - model 2
Mcr011.100
-01.0EP
-009.0dT - Jump drive - J2
Mcr036.000
-06.0EP
-045.0dT - jump fuel - J2 + J1
-024.0dT - Maneuver drive - 3g
Mcr012.000
-09.0EP
-005.0dT - Power plant - 10EP
Mcr015.000
+10.0EP
-010.0dT - power fuel - 4weeks
-003.0dT - Fuel purifier and scoops
Mcr000.430
-001.0dT - Hardpoint and Triple Turret
Mcr001.100
-050.0dT - Weapon Bay
Mcr000.500
-096.0dT - Staterooms - x24 total
Mcr012.000
-008.0dT - Lowberths - x8
Mcr000.400
-008.0dT - Vehicle hanger
-004.0dT - Cargo hold/locks</pre>[/QUOTE]Notes - The ship uses both the optional one-half Jump fuel rule and the optional small ship small weapon bay rule. These can both be changed by adding fuel and two more hardpoints for additional turrets, reducing the cargo hold by 17dT for a J2 fuel load and two more small turrets. Cost in this case is reduced to Mcr114.730 singly for new, not including the extra turrets.
My version of the deckplan (in the Journeyman Design Bureau folder in the files section) uses the same color conventions as the one on the Baron's page in his Saano Shipyard section, with the exception of the Engineering spaces being purple and the whole hull fuel voids and airframe surfaces being the same grey shade. The outline and general layout matches pretty close. Some key notes:
A - airlock, personnel
C - closet, lockable but not too secure or airtight
F - fresher, separate from that included in each stateroom
J - jump drive
L - locker, a secure, lockable, vacuum tight storage space
M - maneuver drive
P - power plant
R - refiner, fuel
S - stateroom
T - (in circle) turret access hatch (dashed is overhead, solid is floor)
X - (in circle) emergency escape hatch (dashed is overhead, solid is floor)
My convention for drawing deckplans is one-half the component is the actual item while one-half is required volume for access and such. So you'll see for example the 9.0dT Jump drive takes up ~4.5dT but leaves room around and to it. Desperate ship owners may fill these spaces with cargo but it is in violation of several safety regulations and can result in fines, loss of license, or even seizure of the ship. Not to mention that the cargo and/or equipment may be harmed by the practice and repairs will be impossible. I also use a similar one-half rule for the bridge. The minimum bridge is 20.0dT of which 10.0dT is all the required stuff you don't see and so I don't map it (lifters, attitude control, wiring, exterior lighting, etc.) while the other half is comprised of minimum crew workstations (5 at 5.0dT being a seat and console, which aren't always all on the "bridge"), the personnel airlocks (3.0dT total, in any confugration desired) and the ship's lockers (2.0dT being half locker and half access to it) which contain the minimum required safety equipment as well as tools and spare parts.
The numbers in the circles are how many may sit comfortably at that table. The numbers in the rectangles in the lowberth module are how many berths that freezer frame can hold. The long black lines are bulkheads, and the short dark grey lines on them are sliding vacuum tight doors. The long dark grey lines are interior walls and the short light grey lines on them are simple sliding doors. The very fine grey lines on the long lines are vacuum tight access panels for maintenance. The light blue lines are windows. The broken light grey lines are swing open doors. The dashed green line in the sickbay module is a curtain for privacy for the beds. The sickbay module includes a locker for medication and instruments as well as an airlock to allow quarantine procedures. Each sickbay bed is also a combination autodoc and emergency lowberth for one. The doctors desk folds out to an operating/diagnostic bed, as shown by the light grey lines. The quarter circle in the staterooms is the personal fresher. Two of the high passage staterooms are shown combined into a suite, giving a separate bedroom and day room with larger fresher. Each stateroom includes a second fold down bunk and with both beds folded away there is a foldup table and two chairs for day use. The notched rectangles in the common areas are the auto galley/food services and storage units. The optional sickbay module is shown outside the ship. I made the two 8dT modular fixtures port and starboard identical and swapable through the full width ramp/door. The area is actually 9dT but that includes 1dT of through access to engineering. The lighter shaded area on the bridge is where the forward view screen slopes back, while the same shade in the ship's computer area (cmpt) indicates the area is half height. Hope that's clear, just holler if there's any confusion or omission.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Great Gods of Gushemege!
What herculean fastidiousness!
It is very refreshing indeed to correspond with an obvious design enthusiast! The "Flat Trader" design was made with the Most Excellent "High Guard Shipyard" Program... unfortunately in my Zeal to use this fine Aid, I mistook the Backup Drives Systems for a feature that establishes the USP code for Jump/Maneuver... It was an oversight that of course threw off the numbers...
As to the Interior Sizes of rooms and whatnot... I intend to convey the basic idea of the ship in question... I basically use a design ethic that Harks back to the days of "Traders and Gunboats" and is by no means exact... yet. It is people as dedicated as you are that bring a design to life!
As for the other errors, all can say is, Whoops! Im new to the HGS Program, and T20 in general from a design standpoint, and your input is extremely helpful in uncovering many discrepencies that I have been noticing as well, Again, Many thanks!
<Cheeky sidenote>
(At least It is only one Ship with some bugs, and not a 400+ page book with multiple pages of errata, Hehehe! I still find the Computer and Vehicle Design sequences akin to the Gordian Knot!)
You honor me with your interest in the design, and there are only 7 more ITC ships to go! I shall endeavor to be as dilligent as possible.
There is also an "LBB" on the ITC soon... I was Inspired when a DHL delivery van nearly ran me off the road... ITC is a pretty "Safe" company, operating within "tamed" space... "IMTU" they are a "good" Company. most of the ITC ships in service are unarmed, and travel in convoys, guarded by the Version 6 Escort (coming soon) a freindly looking ship, but the Scourge of pirates everywhere...
Good Show Milord! Many Thanks!
PS: (jokingly) I sort of Object to the Term "Flat Liner" for two reasons...
1. It implies that it is a "widowmaker" and not the trusty ship it is intended to be for players...
2. It gives props to that (imho) work of "Cinema Excremente" "Flatliners" You know the one... The one starring:
Julia "Ferretface" Roberts...
Kevin "Footloose (brr)" Bacon...
and lets not forget the ever-unappealing,
Kiefer "My sort of can act, but I can't" Sutherland...
Blast your Terran Celebrities to Hades!! Hehehe...
What herculean fastidiousness!
It is very refreshing indeed to correspond with an obvious design enthusiast! The "Flat Trader" design was made with the Most Excellent "High Guard Shipyard" Program... unfortunately in my Zeal to use this fine Aid, I mistook the Backup Drives Systems for a feature that establishes the USP code for Jump/Maneuver... It was an oversight that of course threw off the numbers...
As to the Interior Sizes of rooms and whatnot... I intend to convey the basic idea of the ship in question... I basically use a design ethic that Harks back to the days of "Traders and Gunboats" and is by no means exact... yet. It is people as dedicated as you are that bring a design to life!
As for the other errors, all can say is, Whoops! Im new to the HGS Program, and T20 in general from a design standpoint, and your input is extremely helpful in uncovering many discrepencies that I have been noticing as well, Again, Many thanks!
<Cheeky sidenote>
(At least It is only one Ship with some bugs, and not a 400+ page book with multiple pages of errata, Hehehe! I still find the Computer and Vehicle Design sequences akin to the Gordian Knot!)
You honor me with your interest in the design, and there are only 7 more ITC ships to go! I shall endeavor to be as dilligent as possible.
There is also an "LBB" on the ITC soon... I was Inspired when a DHL delivery van nearly ran me off the road... ITC is a pretty "Safe" company, operating within "tamed" space... "IMTU" they are a "good" Company. most of the ITC ships in service are unarmed, and travel in convoys, guarded by the Version 6 Escort (coming soon) a freindly looking ship, but the Scourge of pirates everywhere...
Good Show Milord! Many Thanks!
PS: (jokingly) I sort of Object to the Term "Flat Liner" for two reasons...
1. It implies that it is a "widowmaker" and not the trusty ship it is intended to be for players...
2. It gives props to that (imho) work of "Cinema Excremente" "Flatliners" You know the one... The one starring:
Julia "Ferretface" Roberts...
Kevin "Footloose (brr)" Bacon...
and lets not forget the ever-unappealing,
Kiefer "My sort of can act, but I can't" Sutherland...
Blast your Terran Celebrities to Hades!! Hehehe...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
The curse of my nit-picking perfectionist nature, at least in my own work, I am far less demanding of others for some reason. I should say recovering perfectionist 'cause if I don't fight it I never actually finish anything
Guilty as charged milord. Long time gearhead/doodler at your service, and anyone else who happens to twig my interest in a project. It helps expand my own meager imagination to play with someone else's vision. Glad you don't mind too much.
Oh no
more ships and other goodies. Actually I can hardly wait, keep up the good work. And thank you.
Well it was too good a joke to pass up following so naturally on the Flat Trader name and the more Liner nature of it. Its kind of in the nature of the Subsidized Merchant's common name "Fat-Trader", not really flattering but descriptive. I also think if my past players are any example they'll make the name true to your first objection
P.S. I have already updated the deckplan, just a couple little tweaks, can't seem to leave well enough alone
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Can you send me a copy of your plan to
"chuckshaw2000@hotmail.com"
Please?
As a side note, the color coded deckplan was inspired by those handouts in the backs of Airline seats, (the ones that supposedly show you which hatch to jump from) so it was simlpistic in nature...
Are you in the JTAS ship design Contest #17, perchance? If so... I gotta get crackin! I think its Q-ships, Below 1000 tons... The lads at Saano are working overtime to beat the Deadline (the 28th)
"chuckshaw2000@hotmail.com"
Please?
As a side note, the color coded deckplan was inspired by those handouts in the backs of Airline seats, (the ones that supposedly show you which hatch to jump from) so it was simlpistic in nature...
Are you in the JTAS ship design Contest #17, perchance? If so... I gotta get crackin! I think its Q-ships, Below 1000 tons... The lads at Saano are working overtime to beat the Deadline (the 28th)
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Done sir
Not a bad idea at all. I generally use such a color scheme to keep tabs of all my area displacement allocations so it was natural. For those that like to nit-pick (like myself) I strive for dead on displacement in my deckplans just to prove it can be done, that +/- 20% is the easy way out
I mean who's going to draw a deckplan that shows less than the full displacement if you can have 20% for free
I think this one comes pretty darn close if not right on, the way I counted anyway.
fredofmars
SOC-12
I have done designs for the Fleet Courier from Supp 9 in HGv2, MT, TNE, and GURPS. I have also got deckplans based on the HGv2 design, along with variants. I included some of my drawings of the ship. I think that it would be a good ship for Naval characters in an "active duty" campaign. Since it has only two tons of cargo, it is not really a good candidate for a merchant campaign.Originally posted by daryen:
<snip>
For jump-6 stuff, you need either the 400 ton courier from Supp 9 or the 2000 ton Type TJ Imperiallines ship. The courier is probably better for typically paranoid PCs.
The Web page for this is:
http://www.geocities.com/fredofmars/courier.htm
- Joseph
I like the scout//courier. I am usually running a pbem traveller game and in my experience this is usually a small party or a single player. Most muster out and and find they are not rich and normally a scout/courier fits the bill (or lack therof) nicely. I am new here and am amazed at the amount of participation. I feared this game was near death...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Never actually used it but had methods ready in several game versions to allow acquisition of a small craft instead of a starship. The idea being to start them small as either an interworld shuttle or delivery service and let them adventure their way into a starship. Or not if the system was big enough for them. A few worlds and associated moons, a couple highports, and a belt system full of prospectors.
I'd say run with it, sounds like fun.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
yes, in the ISS URSULA camapign, we did.
(an armed 1kton freighttractor, crew off 32.
The PC's hold all the command positions/ NCo positions (some 15 players).
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I've started a group (if you count two sessions to notice, travel to, and refurbish, "starting") with a 1kton Solomani Bulk Freighter. Had lots of fun imposing in-system travel times in that game ("I head for the second world's solar station to see if anyone's still alive." "OK, with your Gig's drive you'll be back in...nine days." "NINE!?" "Plus investigation time." "Augh!"), as it was something of a Hard Times game a couple years before that setting was published, and they were the various strandees in a deteriorating system...
Also the first game I pulled the "indeterminate number of Droyne" on players...
The T20 game I'm running at the moment may well end up in something large, "surplus", and Solomani, as the war front just rolled over their system in 1117 Daibei Sector...
Also the first game I pulled the "indeterminate number of Droyne" on players...
The T20 game I'm running at the moment may well end up in something large, "surplus", and Solomani, as the war front just rolled over their system in 1117 Daibei Sector...
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
sounds great Gypsy-Cee!!! have Fun!!(liam saunters off, singing.."Oh I like big ships and i cannot lie..")
My earliest Traveller game was propelled by a custom designed scout vessel with extensive stealth systems (this was the early 80's, none of my players had ever heard of 'stealth'). She was the first of a class of ships laid down by a Megacorp that wanted to know just what was happening on all those Red Zones (insert evil laughter here)
I'm just starting a new campaign tomorrow! I'm starting the characters out as down-on-their-luck types. They've sunk their life savings into a slow boat in very poor condition. They make ends meet in the Marches by hauling old fission cores out to the local gas giant to dispose of them. Each haul nets them about 500Cr. after expenses.
They get hired by a patron to help him board and salvage a small wrecked research station in a decaying orbit around the gas giant. In exchange, he'll swap the slow boat for his Type-S (which has a busted jump drive and is overdue for annual maintenence...). Of course there's more to this than meets the eye...
I don't mind characters having heavy metal, as long at the threats they face are equal to or greater than their power. You gotta keep 'em sweating.
Andy
They get hired by a patron to help him board and salvage a small wrecked research station in a decaying orbit around the gas giant. In exchange, he'll swap the slow boat for his Type-S (which has a busted jump drive and is overdue for annual maintenence...). Of course there's more to this than meets the eye...
I don't mind characters having heavy metal, as long at the threats they face are equal to or greater than their power. You gotta keep 'em sweating.
Andy
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
We normally started with the usual Scout/Courier or Free/Far Trader, but I did have a couple of ships for my players to hope for.
The "Sidewinder" class Fast Packet is a 200-dton HG2 design capable of J-3 and 6-G, with a lightly armored hull. Its intended purpose is the delivery of small, high value cargos into hazardous environments; i.e., smuggling. She has a severely streamlined (airfoil) hull and purpose-built smuggling compartments concealed in the fuel scoops. She doesn't have much cargo and can't make a living as an honest merchant.
The "Beowulf Schaeffer" was a one-of-a-kind exploratory starship intended to probe the depths of a huge nebula IMTU. She was 400-dtons, with heavy armor and wonderful electronics. She had J-4 drive and fuel for J-6. It was intended that she normally do J-3 with a J-3 reserve to get out if necessary.
Getting either of these ships required the PCs to complete a series of adventures that put some serious organizations IMTU in the player's debt. I never handed out such hot ships straight at the start.
I did allow players who rolled a ship more than once in character generation to use the "extra" rolls to improve their ships, instead of paying off some of the loan, if the player wanted to. So they could go up to an armed ship, or a Far Trader instead of a Free Trader, or a stretch Scout/Courier, etc. I also allowed players from the same service to combine their "ship" rolls into one ship, if they wanted to.
The "Sidewinder" class Fast Packet is a 200-dton HG2 design capable of J-3 and 6-G, with a lightly armored hull. Its intended purpose is the delivery of small, high value cargos into hazardous environments; i.e., smuggling. She has a severely streamlined (airfoil) hull and purpose-built smuggling compartments concealed in the fuel scoops. She doesn't have much cargo and can't make a living as an honest merchant.
The "Beowulf Schaeffer" was a one-of-a-kind exploratory starship intended to probe the depths of a huge nebula IMTU. She was 400-dtons, with heavy armor and wonderful electronics. She had J-4 drive and fuel for J-6. It was intended that she normally do J-3 with a J-3 reserve to get out if necessary.
Getting either of these ships required the PCs to complete a series of adventures that put some serious organizations IMTU in the player's debt. I never handed out such hot ships straight at the start.
I did allow players who rolled a ship more than once in character generation to use the "extra" rolls to improve their ships, instead of paying off some of the loan, if the player wanted to. So they could go up to an armed ship, or a Far Trader instead of a Free Trader, or a stretch Scout/Courier, etc. I also allowed players from the same service to combine their "ship" rolls into one ship, if they wanted to.
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