imperial culture

[flykiller]

elsewhere we read:

The Imperium is not America or The United Nations or the Terran Confederation or the Rule of Man or the Sylean Condefederation. But it is the cultural heir to all of these ....

what is imperial culture? is there one? is it really the culture of the/any nobility and simply nothing more than their views and needs? or would it better be described as simply space-faring, driving by the realities of space-going travel? what about world cultures? are they imperial? elsewhere mora is described as a gynarchy - certainly their population and economic force alone would spread their culture far and wide, so could they be described as "spinward marches culture"? what about trin, porozlo, and louzy? would bucolic worlds such as porozlo and regina be ideals longed-for by those trapped in high-tech high-surveillance high-speed regimes? or would glisten and it's space arks and j6 be the ideal at which all those dirt-covered farmers gaze in longing?

 

[mike wightman]

It has never been adequately detailed.

GDW published lots of stuff set in a frontier sector (one that has been settled for over a thousand years but still a frontier) but neglected to detail how imperial core worlds are different to the frontier.

The closest you come to learning about an Imperial culture as such is probably GT Nobles.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

elsewhere we read:

what is imperial culture? is there one? is it really the culture of the/any nobility and simply nothing more than their views and needs? or would it better be described as simply space-faring, driving by the realities of space-going travel? what about world cultures? are they imperial? elsewhere mora is described as a gynarchy - certainly their population and economic force alone would spread their culture far and wide, so could they be described as "spinward marches culture"? what about trin, porozlo, and louzy? would bucolic worlds such as porozlo and regina be ideals longed-for by those trapped in high-tech high-surveillance high-speed regimes? or would glisten and it's space arks and j6 be the ideal at which all those dirt-covered farmers gaze in longing?

There is no one Imperial Culture. If any culture in Charted Space can be called multicultural, it's that of the feudal confederation known as the Third Imperium.

External Link: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Third_Imperium ]

The preamble of the Warrant of Restoration of the Imperium reads:

The worlds of the universe lie separated by the vastness of space, each alone, and dependent upon its own resources. In the past, a greater community of worlds has existed, promoting a greater good for all its members, and for all those who have interacted with it. The time has now come to reestablish that greater community.
On the foundations of the past, in order to promote:
Safe travel among the stars, the exploration of worlds circling those stars, the pursuit of knowledge, mutually profitable trade and commerce, the active exchange of information and tech the individual pursuit of personal betterment, and the collective pursuit of community good, we hereby reestablish the Grand Empire of the Stars.​

And that's about the extent of the commonalities.

There are at least a zillion other differences and details. And that sounds pretty true to human nature, much more so than the utopianism of Star Trek or the naivite of Star Wars... Or...

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[flykiller]

There are at least a zillion other differences and details.

hm. and would there be any agency, perhaps, working in the back-ground, to ensure that the imperium does not become ... TOO united?

 

[RandyB]

hm. and would there be any agency, perhaps, working in the back-ground, to ensure that the imperium does not become ... TOO united?

Other than the usual go-to, "Hiver manipulation"?

Not necessary, IMO. Too many distinct worlds, culturally separated (if not isolated) by communication times on the order of weeks-to-months.

 

[Nick H]

There are a number of shared aspects of culture within the Imperium.

1. A disdain for psionics.
2. A loyalty to the Imperium when faced with an external threat.
3. A general deference to nobility and royalty.
4. An appreciation of diversity.

It's not much to go on, but one of the reasons the Third Imperium survived as long as it did. The aversion to (1) was constant in the CT/MT eras, the Imperium faced its greatest threats from internal rather than external conflict, it's when the nobility and royalty turned on each other that the ties that bound unravelled and (4) neither Dulinor nor Lucan could appreciate that.

 

[rancke]

By an absolutely amazing (but extremely convenient) coincidence Imperial culture is quite similar to 20th and 21st Century Western culture. The values that PCs are assumed to have in all published adventures and amber zones are those of the players that are expected to play the characters. The laws and mores are assumed to default to those values. Even when the PCs are expected to break laws, it is laws akin to 20th Century Western laws they are expected to break.

Whenever quaint and unusual customs and mores are introduced, it's always local customs and mores. Imperial customs and mores default to those of the players every time.


Hans

 

[Reban]

elsewhere we read:

The Imperium is not America or The United Nations or the Terran Confederation or the Rule of Man or the Sylean Condefederation. But it is the cultural heir to all of these ....

what is imperial culture? is there one? is it really the culture of the/any nobility and simply nothing more than their views and needs? or would it better be described as simply space-faring, driving by the realities of space-going travel? what about world cultures? are they imperial? elsewhere mora is described as a gynarchy - certainly their population and economic force alone would spread their culture far and wide, so could they be described as "spinward marches culture"? what about trin, porozlo, and louzy? would bucolic worlds such as porozlo and regina be ideals longed-for by those trapped in high-tech high-surveillance high-speed regimes? or would glisten and it's space arks and j6 be the ideal at which all those dirt-covered farmers gaze in longing?

Funny enough I've just been thinking about this from the point of view of law and justice, so I re-read the intro to the T5 BBB and pulled down T4 Milleu 0

Assuming that "culture" is the ideas, customs, and social behavior of a particular people or society both sources suggest that the basis of Imperial Culture is based on Duty, Honor and Loyalty.

You can breakdown the Imperium to many levels of local culture but the thing that unites all sophonts in the Imperium are these three things:

- A sense of duty, to each other, the Emperor and their role in the society of the Imperium.

- A code of honor that covers such things as responding to a Signal GK, carrying out ones duties without fear or favor far from the eyes of superiors. The wielding of power, especially as a noble, that benefits the whole rather than the individual.

- Loyalty to the Emperor and the Imperium, a sense of a greater community among the stars more than any one world.

 

[whartung]

By an absolutely amazing (but extremely convenient) coincidence Imperial culture is quite similar to 20th and 21st Century Western culture. The values that PCs are assumed to have in all published adventures and amber zones are those of the players that are expected to play the characters. The laws and mores are assumed to default to those values. Even when the PCs are expected to break laws, it is laws akin to 20th Century Western laws they are expected to break.

It's truly a striking coincidence. Obviously this is because the Ancients seeded the worlds from humans originally on earth. That's the only way to explain it.

I would think that there wouldn't per se be an "imperial culture", much like there isn't an American culture. There are certainly overarching themes, but the different geographic areas of the US certainly have their own distinct cultures.

That said, I would think that were would be an Imperial Court culture. Whether this is some Victorian model or what, who can say, but the People of the Court, those actual of nobility, those trying to work their way in to that world, etc. -- that would have a distinct culture, that perhaps people would turn on and off as they enter and exit Imperial events.

 

[mike wightman]

Except for the last words in LBB3...

 

[SanDragon]

The End?



Cultural regions of the Imperium, according to MT, are given as:

Antares, Darmine, Ilelish, Lancia, Sylea, Vega, and Vland.

How each is distinctive from the other is not explained, only that they exist.

 

[Nick H]

There is some explanation. The Vilani are dealt with comprehensively in "Vilani & Vargr" and Vega is a region of non-human alien life which were mentioned in Library Data. Iliesh gets some scant mention; apparently black is an important colour in ceremonial wear.

 

[flykiller]

1. A disdain for psionics.

... probably just a game mechanic, to enforce a humans-in-space setting rather than the inevitable trans-humanism that would transpire if psionics were "common". but notice how many players seek out psionics. in any case you can bet the nobility have psions in service or are psionic themselves. how psion servant loyalty is ensured I have no idea ....

2. A loyalty to the Imperium when faced with an external threat.

doesn't fit with #4.

3. A general deference to nobility and royalty.

I would say a general subjugation.

4. An appreciation of diversity.

appreciation of diversity is not a common human trait, to put it mildly. around the world in human history sailing ships have been fairly diverse, though the different races of the crew may or may not respect or despise each other. but groundside nationally, diversity ... is accompanied by war.

 

[aramis]

There is some explanation. The Vilani are dealt with comprehensively in "Vilani & Vargr" and Vega is a region of non-human alien life which were mentioned in Library Data. Iliesh gets some scant mention; apparently black is an important colour in ceremonial wear.

Vegans get a decent treatment in Traveller Chronicle, for use with the TNE rules.

Mega has a bunch of minor offhand remarks about Illelish.

Black is specific for non-followers of the Virasin faith on Dlan.

 

[flykiller]

Imperial customs and mores default to those of the players every time.

gygax addressed this in his pre-amble to the dm manual. "when all is said and done, the players, after all, are human ...." in traveler this translates to american/brit ....

- A sense of duty, to each other, the Emperor and their role in the society of the Imperium.

- A code of honor that covers such things as responding to a Signal GK, carrying out ones duties without fear or favor far from the eyes of superiors. The wielding of power, especially as a noble, that benefits the whole rather than the individual.

- Loyalty to the Emperor and the Imperium, a sense of a greater community among the stars more than any one world.

most people don't pay much attention to those concepts except in extremis. and observe how ct is chock full forgery and skipping mortgage payments.

and that's just it. what is this "sense of community"? "among the stars" is very poetic but not very motivating.

the different geographic areas of the US certainly have their own distinct cultures.

indeed. dude, it's totally awesome in cali! but down in tejas, well, they don't think much of them people .... y todos los hispanos miran a las mujeres! recall bloody kansas ....

in the spinward marches the vast majority of the influential populations live on mora, trin, glisten, and rhylanor. THOSE worlds would drive or even dictate the spinward marches' culture. and mora is a gynarchy.

 

[Nick H]

My experiences with various Traveller groups are very different from Flykiller's. But that's a tribute to the diversity the game has.

Most of my players didn't want to seriously cross the law. They made their payments, because they didn't want a small fleet of repo SDBs on their tails. Only one player wanted to seek out a psionics institute, the rest bought into the anti-psionic thing...it was selling out to the Zho's!

You say the nobility subjugated the population, but the adventures present a variety of different kinds of nobles. And ruthless subjugation by nobility was a rare occurrence. On the whole, the population of the Imperium didn't form revolutionary committees or hang effigies of nobles. Well, it didn't in the games I was involved in which, for the most part, took their leads from the published material.

This reminds me of a discussion my first group had very early on: Was the Imperium evil and was it our job to resist them? At that time Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica and Blake's 7 loomed large in sci-fi and when you mentioned galactic empires, they were automatically evil. However, the Imperium was a basically stable, fairly well meaning political entity more concerned with keeping things ticking over nicely than ruthless oppression or militaristic expansion. In the end we projected a lot of British culture onto our image of the Imperium itself, with each planet being different. I think that the Imperium was a whiteboard you could project whatever image you wanted on it.

 

[whulorigan]

There is some explanation. The Vilani are dealt with comprehensively in "Vilani & Vargr" and Vega is a region of non-human alien life which were mentioned in Library Data. Iliesh gets some scant mention; apparently black is an important colour in ceremonial wear.

Mega has a bunch of minor offhand remarks about Illelish.

Black is specific for non-followers of the Virasin faith on Dlan.

I would guess that the Ilelish culture would have much to do with the cultural influence of the Suerrat minor race of Humaniti, as Ilelish is their homeworld. And the Suerrat had a distinct multistellar spacefaring culture already when the Vilani first encountered them millenia ago.

The Suerrat were eager allies of the Terran liberators against the Ziru Sirka that had subjugated them, and much later they also apparently led a revolt against the Third Imperium in the 400's that was crushed.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

The Vilani were also detailed in Interstellar Wars. Clannish, bureaucratic, reactionary and haughty. Of course this was at the dawn of their contact with Solomani, so they may have lost some of their haughtiness by the period of the Third Imperium.

The Vegans get some space in that book too, but I don't recall being too impressed. It was pretty bare bones but then again that leaves the GM to create his own idea of Vegans. The Vegan idea of tuhuir is a great concept, introduced in their original write-up, but what those tuhuir do is left as an exercise for the GM. Some are militant and/or military. And some humans, possibly large numbers, have adopted the tuhuir idea and cultural structure - whatever that is.

Mongoose Solomani Rim gives a lot of details on Confederation "culture" as it were. But basically assumes a close relationship to modern, Western, culture.

But as has been said, the culture of the characters has to be that of the players. Its hard enough trying to grasp implications of space travel, robots, aliens and shotguns, without having to remember some weird cultural quirks your character should follow without thinking about it.

Any other cultures are part of the great scenery put up by the GM to color his or her TU. And if you have Streetwise you might have a chance of figuring out that culture before you insult the wrong person.

 

[flykiller]

And if you have Streetwise you might have a chance of figuring out that culture before you insult the wrong person.

heh. some u.s. marines were working with some afghan tribals. after a long hard day they gathered round the campfire and a marine put his feet up. the muzzie across from him pulled a dagger and leaped across the fire to attack the marine. when all the thrashing was over it was learned that to point the soles of your feet at a muzzie was to seriously and deeply insult the muzzie, requiring defense of personal honor. luckily no-one was hurt, cultural understanding was achieved, and everyone came away with a different point of view.

some not expressed ....

 

[flykiller]

But as has been said, the culture of the characters has to be that of the players.

when you roll up a character, do you use your own personal stats?

plato said we couldn't leave the cave. but you should at least look out. to look at the imperial starburst and see a thousand years of human life and human order expanding through the galaxy in all directions ... to be a part of that ....