IN & IM ranks and ratings insigns...

[jwcarroll60]

You are incorrect sir, above the Commandant of the United States Marine Corps is only civilians such as the Secretary of the Navy, the Secretary of Defense and the National Command Authority (President). The Commandant is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which would not be so if he was subordinate to the Chief of Naval Operations.

 

[jwcarroll60]

Bhoins during my service in the USMC during the '70s & '80s I saw, and worked with Marine CWO3s and CWO4s. They may be few and far between but they were respecteed because of their experience and knowledge especially the CWO4 'Gunners' who were likened unto gods walking amoungst mere mortals.

 

[aramis]

For officers I use the JIS rank system put forward in various places, including in Traveller's Digest:

O1-O3: 1 to three small silver "starbursts" (1cm)
O4-O6: 1 to three large gold "starbursts". (3cm)
O7+ 1 or more stars (IMTU they are USUALLY 4 pointed...)

The Starburst is the ring of fire around a circle...

Small (1/2sized) pips are worn on collar insignia.

For sleeve cuffs, use stripes of 0.5 for silver and 2cm for gold. O7+ get a 5 cm stripe, and have their stars .

O1-o3 IMTU also get silver leaves on brims, small display. (25% or less coverage), Brimless hats get 2mm silver cording/piping
O4-o6 get gold scramble, 25-50% coverage. Brimless: 2mm gold cording/piping
O7+ get multi-metal scramble of about 75% and piping (usually gold and silver, but marines often add a red metal)

For enlisted, I use a system of chevrons AND the "Dot Cross" by region. IIn the rimward areas, (former solomani areas) use the crosses.

For chevrons, I modeled after the 1870's US Army, Modern US Navy, modern russian, and commonweath, but hybridized to the following:
Recruit: none
Private: 1 diagonal hash, raised to back
Lance Corporal: two hashes
Corporal: Three hashes
Sergeant: 1 chevron
SSgt: 2 chevrons
PltSgt/Gunny Sgt: 3 chevrons
MSgt: 1 tripple width chevron
SgM: Tripple-width chevron with Starburst.

The chevrons are 2cm wide stripes, 10x7 cm overall, spaced 0.5 cm apart. and with a 0.5cm flash around (and between). Points are down. Naval personell have a specialty mark between points on flashing. Ground forces do not wear specialty mark.
The hashes are 1cm wide, 5x7cm overall, and spaced 0.5cm apart.
The Tripple is actually 7cm wide, 10x14cm overall, with flashing as above.
Stripe colors denote specialty. Flashing color denotes service. Hat and colar insignia are pins, and are pinned through appropriate flashing. Silver for naval ranks, gold for ground. chevrons on collar are 3mm wide, 20x13 cm...points worn towards front of collar, headband of hat.
Epaulettes, where needed, or breast-boards, are usually half-scale, with top of stripe at top edge of straight side.

IMTU, Retiree enlisted recieve pins with final insignia in service color on silver (space)/gold(ground), and may wear stripes of same pattern on dress uniforms. Officers use "hollow" starbursts on retiree insignia, color of service filling the ring of fire. All retiree insignia are issued with name, ID number, and dates of service etched.

This last I did to make the old russian practice of continuing to wear the uniform post-service possible without much confusion.
I have cadets wear gold or silver bars for cadet ranks, same pattern as real officers. Cadets in the field wear officer uniforms without pips.

 

[vermeylenhans]

IMTU, sectorial navies, and some planetary navies, use a variation of the IN ranks (other planetary navies uses something entierly different).

Some use the IN ranks as they are, with the sunburst. Other change colours and/or the sunburst.

I'm looking for alternative for the sunburst. Symbol associated with given worlds or sectors.

For exemple, both the Sol sector navy and the Sol planetary navy use a simple sphere (representing our sun).

Are they other such well known symbol that could be used?

Along the same line, I design a serie of Sword World Navies ranks. As there is no such thing as an unified SW navy, each world, and each navy, get it's own insigns. Gram get a sword and dragon, Joyeuse a sword and crown, Durendal a sword and horn, Sting a sword and ring, Narsil a broken sword, Excalibur a sword and anvil, and so on...

Got my point?

Other ideas? Both for the SW and the member worlds of the empire...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Hans Vermeylen:
Along the same line, I design a serie of Sword World Navies ranks. As there is no such thing as an unified SW navy, each world, and each navy, get it's own insigns. Gram get a sword and dragon, Joyeuse a sword and crown, Durendal a sword and horn, Sting a sword and ring, Narsil a broken sword, Excalibur a sword and anvil, and so on...

Got my point?

Other ideas? Both for the SW and the member worlds of the empire...

GT:Sword Worlds contains information about the ranks typically used by the Sword World navies and armies and by the Patrol. Although each world has its own army and its own navy, the ranks tend to be the same (or very similar) in each, since the navies all draw their traditions from the navy of the Sacnoth Dominate and the armies from the original army of Gram.

Sword Worlds also contains examples of the badges that Sword Worlders use instead of flags. Gram has the Red Worm, Sacnoth the Black Bull, Tizon the Irresistible Wave, etc.

(Note: As a personal opinion I think a couple of the badges came out wrong. Mjolnir's hammer should be a Thor's hammer, not the sledgehammer that is depicted, and the badges of Excalibur and Beater has been switched. But I repeat: That's a personal opinion, not an official pronouncement (I'm not in a position to make official pronouncements).


Hans

 

[vermeylenhans]

I'm not too fond of the wasp used for sting neither...

 

[BetterThanLife]

Well I didn't spend as much time with Marines. I have worked with CW4's in the Army and met a CW5 in my speciality. But all the Warant Officers, aside from the pilots were long service professionals and the experts in their fields.

Originally posted by jwcarroll60:
Bhoins during my service in the USMC during the '70s & '80s I saw, and worked with Marine CWO3s and CWO4s. They may be few and far between but they were respecteed because of their experience and knowledge especially the CWO4 'Gunners' who were likened unto gods walking amoungst mere mortals.

 

[vermeylenhans]

Bhoins, the unicorn you use as logo. Where does it come from?

OK I know it's linked to Deneb. But is it a logo linked specificaly with the domain, or even with the archeduke (personnal sign of the archeduke with the domain having something else)? Or does is it linked with both the world, the subsector, the sector and the domain?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I think it's the symbol of the Duke of Regina.

 

[vermeylenhans]

Would it be appropriate as insign for Regina subsector navy? Or even for Regina planetary navy?

 

[aramis]

That Unicorn latyer becomes the symbol of the Norrissian Faction fo the rebellion, and to a certain exxtent, the regency.

 

[ElHombre]

it's the symbol of the domain. apparently there is a constellation which appears in many of the skies of the domain which resembles a unicorn. norris picked this as a common symbol for the new domain. since norris and regina are linked so closely, i can see regina armed forces adopting it (or something similar) for their own.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

"Bridled Steed

Taking its subject from the horned-horse of Terran mythology, the "Bridled Steed", an emergent unicorn, is a constellation spanning the Cronor and Jewell subsectors.

The family of the Duke of Regina has always used the image as a symbol of its own holdings in the Spinward Marches.

When Norris was created Archduke, the title carried with it certain prerogatives; one of these was the designation of a symbol for the Domain of Deneb . The unicorn seemed the natural choice."

http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw/libdata/ALPHABET/B/bridl_mt.htm

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Hans Vermeylen:
Would it be appropriate as insign for Regina subsector navy? Or even for Regina planetary navy?

It could very well have been the emblem of the Duchy of Regina Navy, but the fact that Norris felt free to use the unicorn to symbolise the whole of the Domain of Deneb suggests that it may not have been in use already (except as his personal emblem). I'd say you could argue that one either way. It's also possible that the DORN uses an emblem that goes back to before the Aledons took over the duchy. If so, I suspect it involves some sort of stylized crown.

As for the Regina System Defense Force, I'd go with the crown idea. Which may be a good reason to suspect that the DORN don't use one.

You're pretty much on virgin territory here.

(BTW, whatever you decide on, how about posting it somewhere with an express permission for others to use them as parts of work for official works? That way you may end up seeing artists use your suggestions.)


Hans

 

[aramis]

Note that Sup 12 shows us the crest of the Dukes Huscarles. Which, IIRC, has the unicorn upon it.

The real question becomes one of WHO formed the System and Subsector Navies (as the Duchy of Regina is the Subsector...).

Which has the parallel question of WHEN they were formed.

I would probably, if pressed, have the SM insignia be the constellation itself, as seen from Mora, superimposed upon the Imperial Starburst, in appropriate colors for service. Note also, Regina was once the sector capital... so it might be as seen from Regina. (IIRC, it was moved just before the 4FW, due to theat concerns.)

Thus, when Norris refuses to follow Prince Lucan, the switch to the Unicorn underneath is a sign of loyalty... then during the regency, the stars get dropped altogether.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually I picked it because I thought it looked cool. I played for years in the Spinward Marches and since I never played in a time frame after the Rebellion, it seemed appropiate.

BTW before the collapse, the Duke of Regina also happened to be the Sector Duke. So it might be the symbol of the Sector Navy not just the Subsector fleet. Duke Norris moved his seat to Mora later but before he was the Archduke of the Domain of Deneb he was the Sector Duke of the Spinward Marches. (I always thought it was a bit strange that the Sector Capital would be a fairly low tech world off on one end instead of Mora. (Which is right off the Spinward Main, away from hostiles and TL-F but who am I to judge.

)

 

[vermeylenhans]

What about other such symbols?

I see a couple of them I don't know among the avatar images:

Any comments about those? Who or what do they stand for? And what else could they possibly stand for (like the unicorn is associated to Norris, the domain of deneb and possibly the subsector of regina).

Any idea of other such symbols? Let's go for a 'Imperial heraldic for dummies'!

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Note that Sup 12 shows us the crest of the Dukes Huscarles. Which, IIRC, has the unicorn upon it.

Oh, no question that Norris used the unicorn. But the Duchy of Regina may not. Or it may.

The real question becomes one of WHO formed the System and Subsector Navies (as the Duchy of Regina is the Subsector...).

No, that doesn't really help us. Possibly the Duchy of Regina Navy is a lineal descendant of the Regina Cluster Navy which presumably was formed in 250 when the Regina Cluster joined the Imperium. But there's no telling what changes has been made over time. The Regina cluster navy could have been incorporated in the Duchy of Rhylanor Navy for a while. Caranda Aledon, 1st Duke of Regina, may have retained (or restored) the old RCN symbol or he may have started afresh. All in all I'd say the inclusion of a unicorn is pretty likely. Maybe a unicorn emerging from a crown?

(BTW, the Duchy of Regina includes the County of Jewell, which means that there is either two different navies in the duchy (IMO unlikely) or there is no 'subsector navy' but instead a ducal navy that covers both subsectors.)

Which has the parallel question of WHEN they were formed.

Well, the Duchy of Regina could have been formed prior to 629, but in my (non-canonical) history of the spinward Marches I have Regina as a county under the Duke of Rhylanor before that date.

Note also, Regina was once the sector capital...

It is shown as sector capital on the maps in the MT books. All other references has Mora as the sector capital. My take is that the maps are mistaken. YMMV.

Thus, when Norris refuses to follow Prince Lucan, the switch to the Unicorn underneath is a sign of loyalty... then during the regency, the stars get dropped altogether.

The Spinward Marches may or may not have a symbol of its own, but in the OTU the unicorn was chosen by Norris as the symbol of the Domain of Deneb when he became archduke (By a perhaps-not-so-very-curious coincidence he made the same choice when he became archduke in the GTU, even though his situation was different).

Anyway, I don't think the sunburst-and-unicorn even had any stars in it.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Hans Vermeylen:
What about other such symbols?

I see a couple of them I don't know among the avatar images:

Look at the names of the files.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
BTW before the collapse, the Duke of Regina also happened to be the Sector Duke.

No he wasn't. Delphine of Mora was the sector duchess (See above).

So it might be the symbol of the Sector Navy not just the Subsector fleet.

There is no sector navy. Just a sector fleet which belongs to the Imperial Navy.


Hans