Inspired by US Naval Infantry

[Mithras]

Hi,

Decided to use my 'marines' purely for combat assaults, and use naval infantry for ship's troops, boarding and landing parties and base protection. I'd heard about the Russian naval infantry (not looked at that yet), but I did find this very interesting article on the history of US sailors as infantrymen. Great reading!


Sailors as Infantry in the US Navy
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/naval_infantry.htm

Combined with a bit of research on the US Coastguard, I think I've now designed the organisation of my ship's troops.

Bases will be secured by BSUs (Base Security Units), around a platoon in size commanded by an O-2 and composed of 3 10 man infantry sections and a 10 man 'boat crew' (commanded by an O-1 and manned by NCOs. This is modelled after US Coast Guard Port Security Units: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Security_Unit. Personnel are all from the gunnery branch, which, IMTU is called the Warfare Branch, and includes small-arms and zero-G training. There can be multiple BSUs on larger bases.

On ship, the gunners double as ship's troops. Any naval ship has an SST (Shipboard Security Team), commanded by the chief gunner (a PO). An SST is a squad of up to 8 people. Ships may operate multiple SSTs. They are adhoc, forming for particular events, with crewmen going back to gunnery duties. A line officer may command multiple SSTs (three or more).

That will do me for now, I'll have to see how the Russians do it...

 

[Meteoric Assault]

Russian/Soviet Naval Infantry were ground pounders, They have the same roles like the Royal Marines.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Sailors forming landing parties and acting as infantry has occured quite often. They even served in longer campaigns (I.e Boer war) or where designated for the job (Yangtze Patrol crewman)

For smaller ships this was often the only way they could afford boarding teams and/or operations on land because there simply was no place for Marines (I.e only Cruisers of better carried British Marines)

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

intresting. so, In YTU, a navy vessel preparing to board a craft would have to de-man a significant proportion of it's turrets? could be a intresting suprise tactic for a desperate group of players...

personally, i think its a bad idea, thematically. ships troops are effectivly light infantry, and would require a lot a specailist training, meaning that combineing them with another role that need specailist training (starship gunnery) is, in my opinion, A Bad Idea

on the other hand. i an quite partial to the idea of ships troops being a seperate from (or a destinct sub set of) the Imperial marines. I feel that planetry assaults (the marines job) is a very different job form boarding actions and such.

 

[mbrinkhues]

One might start with stripping the REMFs for an bodies. Cooks, Stewards etc. Then the maintenance section (NOT engineering). Bridge will have a rotation of crew so you can cut out a man or two there. Add the away team that most patrol ships will have as a core and even a small (<= 5000dton) destroyer should be able to produce a squad or two.

And that was often all it took in real world history. 10-20 man armed with a BAR and some M1906 rifles (or the national equivalent) was a typical "control the locals" force for the colonial gunboat. While fictional "The Sand Pebbles" is a good description of this (and based on facts)

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

indeed, but we are talking about replacing a dedicated, trained shipboard combat force with drafted crewmen.

going back futher in history, the royal marines were a major part of the company of any ship of war. they were deployed at a rate of about one per cannon carried (for those who don't know, frigates of the time carried between 20 and 40 cannons. ships of the line carried 60-100 guns, with 74 being the most common)

i aggree that crewmen would be drafted in to support a boarding action or bulk out a landing force, but i feel that a Imperial navy ship should have some dedicated combat troops.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Problem ist that the most commonly encountered ships can not store them. The "typical" ship is a small escort in the 1000dton class or maybe a destroyer in the 3000-5000dton class. And those don't have much space.

 

[Meteoric Assault]

Shore Parties & Naval Infantry

There is a long history of ad hoc shore parties. The Naval Brigades in British military history are numerous.. in fact most nations did the same. During the world wars there were naval divisions formed (German, French, British, and Russian) and fed into the respective meat grinders at the front.

 

[mbrinkhues]

There is a long history of ad hoc shore parties. The Naval Brigades in British military history are numerous.. in fact most nations did the same. During the world wars there were naval divisions formed (German, French, British, and Russian) and fed into the respective meat grinders at the front.

At least the german naval divisions where "soldiers surplus to need" due to lack of a navy/naval operations. They where not "short term units". Same of some French and Russian units

Brit units are the most fitting even when the "little rescue mission" turned out to take a year or two.

 

[Mithras]

intresting. so, In YTU, a navy vessel preparing to board a craft would have to de-man a significant proportion of it's turrets? could be a intresting suprise tactic for a desperate group of players..

That's a good point Xerxes, I'd not thought of that. Problem with the analogy with navy ships is that Traveller ships don't have many general duty crewmen, do they? And they used to make up the bulk of the infantry parties. For all non-boarding actions, though, like landing parties and onship security they seem perfect.

The well-written Sector Fleet describesGunnery branch as being cross-trained. I like the idea.

 

[Mithras]

Perhaps I can retain 'ships troops' such as those 8 men on-board a patrol cruiser but have them formed up as a permanant Shipboard Security Team there for customs duties, searches and boardings, etc. Bigger ships might also retain permanent SSTs used not just for boarding actions (which may occur once, twice, never?? in a crewman's career?) but also for damage control, landing parties and gunnery duties as needed.

With such a boring detail, perhaps dedicated ship's troops are routinely cycled through base security units or back through the gunnery departments of other warships.

 

[aramis]

intresting. so, In YTU, a navy vessel preparing to board a craft would have to de-man a significant proportion of it's turrets? could be a intresting suprise tactic for a desperate group of players...

personally, i think its a bad idea, thematically. ships troops are effectivly light infantry, and would require a lot a specailist training, meaning that combineing them with another role that need specailist training (starship gunnery) is, in my opinion, A Bad Idea

Agreed. And so did the USN.... most of the Naval Infantry were in deck department ratings. They were not rated as "Infantry," either. (Well, MAA's technically are, but since MAA starts at E5, and lower rated MAA's are all bust-backs....)

One reason for Gunner's Mates on Naval Infantry duty in the USN is that the nominal breakdown would be 1 platoon marines, 2 platoons naval infantry, 1 platoon as artillery, but noting that the Artillery platoon equips and serves as infantry if their guns are not deployed with them.

And, supposedly, the Naval Infantry are coming back.... since the marines have become an almost separate force...

 

[Mithras]

So I read...

And, supposedly, the Naval Infantry are coming back.... since the marines have become an almost separate force...

 

[Mithras]

Another thought, and a counter to Xerxes in away. Anti-ship boarding parties sound great, but they're not very common these days are they? AFAIK frigates and destroyers don't routinely carry squads of marines ready for boarding actions. I suppose age of sail ships routinely changed hands in warfare once boarded.

Today an exocet or in WW2 heavy shell barrage sort of mitigates that need or desire to 'capture' aship. The most successful boardings of WW2 were probably on submarines in order to gather intelligence, and I'm sure they didn't use marines for those.

I suppose the mission of an SST is (then) Star Trek-like landing party shennanigans, and the modern VBSS (Visit, Board, Search & Seizure) mission against a surrendered or hove-to vessel.

 

[Dragoner]

The Sand Pebbles is a good example of a naval landing party (and a great movie with Steve McQueen):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sand_Pebbles_(film)

It could make a nice adventure as well with a Fiery Gunned Escort on a world with civil disturbances breaking out and the players being reseve duty naval personel. They could be getting the ship repaired at a local starport, then the Captain disobeys orders to get off planet and instead goes to an Imperial school to rescue people caught in the uprising. The Captain and Engineer get killed in a gun battle and the players have to get the ship out of there and to safety...

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Another thought, and a counter to Xerxes in away.......

I could counter with the "traveller is not like the modern world" arguement.


but i won't

I suppose the mission of an SST is (then) Star Trek-like landing party shennanigans, and the modern VBSS (Visit, Board, Search & Seizure) mission against a surrendered or hove-to vessel.

Pretty much. I think they would need more firepower and training, mainlly becuase the average traveller free trader has more firepower than the average RL freighter.

 

[Mithras]

True again Xerxes.

I suppose I'm not after a simulation (which will be wrong anyway, this is hundreds of years in the future), but trying to capture some elements from modern day, and what I'm after here are the Persian Gulf board and search operations I've seen the Royal Navy do alot of. I really liked the RN crews in the documentaries I watched.

Another thing I want to getaway from, too, is the future military as 'modern US military'. And I get that vibe from alot of Traveller stuff, particularly earlier CT stuff. Part of ditching marines as do-all super-troopers is trying to distance myself from modern US organization and doctrine.

I talked with Major B about this too, and we discussed writing in an organisational or doctrinal fact that 'isn't efficient'. Just like RL. Everything's in flux, because stuff has to change for the next war ... so ... there might be abetter way to do something, but ... isn't that just reallife?

I mean, man, we have just ditched our entire Harrier fleet, but are waiting for 2 aircraft carriers to arrive. We will have no planes to put on them. Imagine THAT in the OTU, we'd have a field day with it !!!

 

[Mithras]

Saw it many years ago ... BTW what you set up is a great little adventure!

The Sand Pebbles is a good example of a naval landing party (and a great movie with Steve McQueen):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sand_Pebbles_(film)

It could make a nice adventure as well with a Fiery Gunned Escort on a world with civil disturbances breaking out and the players being reseve duty naval personel. They could be getting the ship repaired at a local starport, then the Captain disobeys orders to get off planet and instead goes to an Imperial school to rescue people caught in the uprising. The Captain and Engineer get killed in a gun battle and the players have to get the ship out of there and to safety...

 

[far-trader]

Hi,

Decided to use my 'marines' purely for combat assaults, and use naval infantry for ship's troops, boarding and landing parties and base protection.

Heh, strangely (or not) I've thought this was the way it was done from the very beginning

...or at least since High Guard came out. All imtu...

Ship's Troops are Navy. They fight in space (Zero-G-Cbt) and aboard ship, including boarding actions. They provide security and policing aboard ship and at Navy bases.

Marines fight from space (Drop Troops, Battle Dress) and take guarded terrain (the Army, and imtu that is the Imperial Army, then comes in to hold it). They don't do simple security (but do form elite guards for Nobles). Biggest difference between the Army and Marines is the Army is just transported by the Navy, while Marines are actaully part of the Navy.

I agree and have always had Gunners on smaller ships (sub Kton) also pressed into service (double duty) as Ship's Troops as needed.

Ship's Troops per the HG calculations are not Marines. Marines may be added though generally in smaller numbers and often as a special forces attachment.

 

[Mithras]

I just 'assumed' that ships troops were rnarines. GURPS Ground Forces states it as an OTU fact (if GURPS is OTU???)