Ironmongery Weapons technology development

[Shadowfax]

Is there any information available about what traveller races developed a particular weapon?

For example are the Zhodani known for having pioneered the Gauss rifle? Did the Solimani perfect the ACR? Were the Vilani the first to develop Plasma and Fusion weapons?

Or did everybody just serendipitously develop all these same weapon technologies parallel to each other?

 

[far-trader]

The only canon off the top of my head is the Solomani inventing the Meson Gun and surprising the heck out of the Vilani when it was first used early in the Rim Wars.

 

[Shadowfax]

IMTU then huh?

So everything is IMTU (In my Traveller Universe) then right?

So I can have the Vargr come up with blasters, the Aslan use bolter technology, the Vilani perfect the ACR, the Solimani develop the laser rifle first then the plasma and fusion guns and the Zhodani pioneer gauss weapons technology if I want to eh?

Just out of curiousity how does that sound? Plausible? Silly? I just want another opinion.

-M

 

[rust]

Just out of curiousity how does that sound? Plausible? Silly? I just want another opinion.

It depends a bit on what your "blasters" are, since the weapons usually na-
med blasters in science fiction are not a part of the Traveller canon.

You can of course use them anyhow, it is your game.

 

[Shadowfax]

Well, our blasters use technology that allows a solid shot round to be "piggybacked" on a plasma "packet". They are hard hitting and do a lot of damage, but suffer at long and extreme range.

The Bolters are similar, but work the other way around. They are a solid shot containing a stabilized plasma. When they hit a target or reach a specified range the EM field in the round becomes unstable and lets the plasma out - boom!

We have the Aslan using bolters and spikers - basically a low tech nailgun with an energy field that helps them penetrate.

We have the Zohdani pioneering the blaster weapons, but giving them up in favor of lasers. The Vargr pick the blaster up from the Zhos and carry it further - using blasters more than lasers.

We also have the Darrians and Sword Worlders using blaster technology.

The Darrian blasters are the best, but unfortunately no one - not even the Darrians really know exectly how/why they work. It was part of their tech 16 technology that got "lost". As a result Darrian blasters are in short supply and are highly prized having nearly an artifact reputation.

Both blasters and bolters are supplanted by the invention of plasma and fusion guns. Spikers are pretty much obsolete by tech 6, but some Aslan still carry them, because they have that traditionalist sort of "Bushido-esque" mentality.

There is also one Aslan spiker weapon that is a big like the Aslan splat gun. It is still occasionally encountered and is used as a light anti-tank weapon sort of like the British piat from WWII.

What can I say? We're nutz! = )

 

[Whipsnade]

So everything is IMTU (In my Traveller Universe) then right?

Shadowfax,

Everything is always In You Traveller Universe. You can use, ignore, fold, spindle, mutilate, and even import nonsensical WH40K weapons into YTU as much as you want.

So I can have the Vargr come up with blasters, the Aslan use bolter technology, the Vilani perfect the ACR, the Solimani develop the laser rifle first then the plasma and fusion guns and the Zhodani pioneer gauss weapons technology if I want to eh?

You can do that if you want to. I wouldn't find it terribly plausible, but it's your game and not mine.

Just out of curiousity how does that sound?

Historically inaccurate and unaware of how technological progress actually occurs.

Plausible?

Hardly.

Silly?

Very much so, especially given your use of WH40K. GDW were wargamers first, last, and foremost. They gave Traveller and their other RPGs a certain military "reality", especially when it came to personal and heavy weapons.

I just want another opinion.

You don't need one. The only opinion that matters is your opinion. Do what you feel will make the game fun for you and your players. While your descriptions of the "technology" behind "blasters", "bolters", "spikers", and all the other imported WH40K silliness don't make sense, they needn't make any sense at all if you don't need them to.

It's your game, do what thou will.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Max]

In general though I'd try to avoid high recoil weapons in Vagr hands, they do not seem to be built well for recoil (low mass and no shoulders to speak of) and I tend to have them carry laser weapons. I would probably do the same for Droyne if I used them. k'Kree would seem to handle high recoil weapons easier than other races so I would have no problem with giving them nasty high power weapons on that basis, heck a k'Kree would probably have no problem using human squad support weapons as standard infantry weapons.

 

[boomslang]

The only canon off the top of my head is the Solomani inventing the Meson Gun and surprising the heck out of the Vilani when it was first used early in the Rim Wars.

Didn't the Solomani more-precisely "reverse-engineer" the M-gun after encountering it at Sabmiquys?

 

[Whipsnade]

Didn't the Solomani more-precisely "reverse-engineer" the M-gun after encountering it at Sabmiquys?

Boomslang,

That world is much too far to coreward, Sabmiqys is in the Antares Sector. That's over three sectors away from where nearly all the Interstellar Wars took place and we're explicitly told it was during one of the war's on the Rim the Confederation first deployed meson weapons.

The Confederation's meson guns reminded the Vilani of what happened at Sabmiqys and that, allegedly, helped Vilani morale drop even further.

No one managed to land on Sabmiqys until the Third Imperium era when sufficiently powerful meson screens were developed.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Shadowfax]

Whipsnade said:"Everything is always In You Traveller Universe. You can use, ignore, fold, spindle, mutilate, and even import nonsensical WH40K weapons into YTU as much as you want."

Actually, I have never played W40K. Do they use a bolter like ours? Is it any good? We have been using spiker/bolter weapons for the Aslan since the early 80s. I have no idea about W40k at all except that they have horrible looking 25mm figures with over-sized mêlée weapons, orcs and something called "snottlings". The latter idea I found quite funny. I guess they are some kind of kobald right? For fantasy stuff we play a varian of Steve Jackson's precursor to GURPS. It was called "Mêlée the Fantasy Trip" and came out in the 60s or 70s.

The Aslan of course use other weapons, but the bolter/spiker weapons are their traditional weapons, sort of like the Samurai sword or the Cutlass for the Marines, except a bit more useable/practical.

As for the Blasters that was a relatively new idea from my cousin. He is a bit younger and played Star Wars. I thought that it would be unusual for all of the races to develop the same technologies simultaneously, so at least in the lower tech levels they have their own. Later on they adapt the technologies that work the best and end up being proliferated by all those Mega-corporations, governments, Mercs and Free-traders.

One other thing, I think that after a while the tech levels at least for weapons would start to even out a bit. If you look at our world as an example, Everyone sells their old weapons to their allies. It raises their tech level. So if you were tech 12 and had relations with another Empire that was tech 15, you would probably get a boost to tech 13 at least with regard to the weaponry that some of your units are equipped with, although there would probably not be enough of the high tech weapons to equip the entire army (depending on the relative sizes of course).

-M

 

[rust]

One other thing, I think that after a while the tech levels at least for weapons would start to even out a bit. If you look at our world as an example, Everyone sells their old weapons to their allies. It raises their tech level. So if you were tech 12 and had relations with another Empire that was tech 15, you would probably get a boost to tech 13 at least ...

I think that boost would go right up to TL 14 or even the low end of TL 15,
because the supplier usually wants to reduce the costs of his own arms pro-
duction by increasing the market and the numbers produced by selling arms
to other nations.
If you take the real world as an example, almost all nations attempt to sell
the "current standard" of their equipment, keeping only the most recent in-
novations away from potential opponents.

 

[Shadowfax]

Max said: "In general though I'd try to avoid high recoil weapons in Vagr hands, they do not seem to be built well for recoil (low mass and no shoulders to speak of) and I tend to have them carry laser weapons. I would probably do the same for Droyne if I used them. k'Kree would seem to handle high recoil weapons easier than other races so I would have no problem with giving them nasty high power weapons on that basis, heck a k'Kree would probably have no problem using human squad support weapons as standard infantry weapons."

Yeah, You are right about that Max. Good point. I may have to do some switching around. Our blasters aren't supposed to have much of a recoil though. I am not exactly sure how that is supposed to be exactly. Thanks for your input! = )

btw. Blasters and bolters are eclipsed by lasers and plasma guns at tech 12-13. Spikers become obsolete much earlier.

 

[aramis]

Actually, I have never played W40K. Do they use a bolter like ours? Is it any good? We have been using spiker/bolter weapons for the Aslan since the early 80s. I have no idea about W40k at all except that they have horrible looking 25mm figures with over-sized mêlée weapons, orcs and something called "snottlings". The latter idea I found quite funny. I guess they are some kind of kobald right? For fantasy stuff we play a varian of Steve Jackson's precursor to GURPS. It was called "Mêlée the Fantasy Trip" and came out in the 60s or 70s.

The Warhammer games use several sizes of orcs...
Trolls 7'-12'
Orcs 5'-7'
Goblins/Gretchins 3'-5'
Snotlings 2'-3'

Warhammer Bolters are caseless weapons firing large (20mm x 70mm) explosive tipped projectiles; the projectile is fired with an initial charge, but also has a sustainer rocket.

As for SJ's earlier game: The RPG is "The Fantasy Trip", Meleé is the combat system module, Wizard is the magic system module, and In the Labyrinth is the campaign module. Ty Beard's traveller crossover is in the files area; I uploaded it with his permission.

 

[Shadowfax]

I think that boost would go right up to TL 14 or even the low end of TL 15,
because the supplier usually wants to reduce the costs of his own arms pro-
duction by increasing the market and the numbers produced by selling arms
to other nations.
If you take the real world as an example, almost all nations attempt to sell
the "current standard" of their equipment, keeping only the most recent in-
novations away from potential opponents.

Yeah, but you still see armies of 3rd world nations running around with WWII surplus weapons and equipment. During the Falklands war, which I realize was a while back now, but still is fairly current, you saw the Argentinians running around with old US equipment like M1 Garands and old helments. Heck even the old San Juan that the brits sank was an old WWII US cruiser.

So for the most part I agree with you about the tech 14-15, but I doubt that it spreads everywhere and I bet that there is just not enough of it to go around. I can see tech 12-13 very easily. Tech 14-15 weapons probably for up to 50-70%. Tech 11-13 for the rest. That is my best guess.

 

[Shadowfax]

The Warhammer games use several sizes of orcs...
Trolls 7'-12'
Orcs 5'-7'
Goblins/Gretchins 3'-5'
Snotlings 2'-3'
---------------------I only heard about the snotlings. I of course know about trolls, orcs and goblins from Tolkien and other fantasy games, but that is another timeline and another universe for us. When we do sci-fi it is all traveller/Striker.

Warhammer Bolters are caseless weapons firing large (20mm x 70mm) explosive tipped projectiles; the projectile is fired with an initial charge, but also has a sustainer rocket.
--------------------The bolter idea has been in our traveller universe since the early 80s. The idea was that bolters were a solid core very dense shot propelled by a plasma (None of us are really sure exactly how that works, but it never stopped us. We all admit its a bit too much like the "Zaptron ray", but none of us have bothered to dig out their physics books and offer a more plausible explanation of bolter technology.) and that they are relatively short-ranged and inaccurate. The Aslan developed the technology and are the only race that use it.

-----------------Our bolters pack a huge punch at short range and penetrate any armor available at their tech level. At short range they are devastating!

--------------Our Bolters come on the scene early (at tech 6!), because the Aslan are relatively more advanced technology-wise early on. So while the Solomani are fighting WWI with water-cooled machine guns on Terra. The Aslan are dueling with bolters. Later when the Intersellar wars occur. The Solomani have ACRs, lasers and the like, but the tradition-bound Aslan are still fighting with bolters, because it is the "honorable" thing to do. As soon as they lose a few battles to the better-armed Solomani and see that they do not play by the "rules", the Aslan switch more to using longer range sniper rifles and eventually develop their bolter technology in to a laser technology of their own. They also capture and reverse-engineer Solomani lasers. By tech 8-9 bolters have largely disappeared and been supplanted by lasers and such. So it is IMTU.

As for SJ's earlier game: The RPG is "The Fantasy Trip", Meleé is the combat system module, Wizard is the magic system module, and In the Labyrinth is the campaign module.

--------------------------Yes, I know. I at one time had all of those books. We play a modern day variant of these 3 for our medieval fantasy stuff.

-----------------However for Sci-Fi gaming, we rely strictly on a striker/classic traveller mix. We don't mix the mêlée and the traveller game-engines together.

Ty Beard's traveller crossover is in the files area; I uploaded it with his permission.

-----------------------------Crossover? What you mean from Mêlée to classic traveller? We did one campaign like that and it worked reasonably well.

 

[aramis]

Shadow: Do yourself and others a favor: don't put your replies inside the quote tags. It makes it bloody hard to reply point by point, it's hard to read, and it is annoying.

Just use your copy and paste function to add the needed "[/quote] your reply goes here [quote]" ...

 

[Shadowfax]

Ok, I didn't quite get the hang of how the quote function works here. I have to confess I do not do very much blogging.

 

[sabredog]

One good reason to limit (even if it is just artificially) weapons tech access would be to support gun-running in the game. A proscription against certain TL weapons by the most powerful governing body would mean smuggling high tech weapons and armor could provide many an adventure seed.

 

[Gadrin]

Just an FYI (do what you want with your TU), these are from the
Journal of the Travellers Aid Society books:

JTAS #4 -- offers some of the reasons behind the technology paths chosen for Traveller.

Computer Implants -- JTAS #22 p9... for that TravellerPunk feel.

>

 

[Shadowfax]

One good reason to limit (even if it is just artificially) weapons tech access would be to support gun-running in the game. A proscription against certain TL weapons by the most powerful governing body would mean smuggling high tech weapons and armor could provide many an adventure seed.

--------------------Yes, I do not see "mortals" getting their hands on military weapons, especially tech 14 to 15 stuff. Things like Battledress, FGMP 14s and 15s, PGMP 14s and such would probably be pretty difficult to procure even on the black market, but then again the universe is big and a lot can happen. I do my best to keep my players from getting this stuff. They do their best to figure out how to get it.