Is the Traveller Market Fractured

[Supplement Four]

Massively Multi-Player Online Role Playing Game.

As in: World of Warcraft or Eve Online.

 

[ravells]

Originally posted by hunter:
The one thing I believe would seriously cause a resurgence in Traveller is an MMORPG. Unfortunately that takes wads and wads of cash to fund and not an insignificant amount of time to produce.

You need to hire Crow, Andrew Boulton and Jessie to do your ship's models for you

New Players: Like Hal I was introduced to Traveller when I joined the SF society (being the proto-geek I was) at university. The RPGs of the moment then were: Traveller, Call of Cthullu, D&D, Runequest and Bushido. I what games SF socs today play? Is it mainly D&D? Wouldn't they be the target audience to market Traveller Products to?

Ravs

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Massively Multi-Player Online Role Playing Game.

As in: World of Warcraft or Eve Online.

Thank you S4...

sincerely,

 

[Liam Devlin]

Currently at 57 posted votes...
Is the Traveller Market Fractured Today?
Yes 77% (44)
No 16% (9)
Don't know 7% (4)

an interesting look of 11 > 1 of the yea's vs. the IDK's, and 4.9 > 1 of the Yea's vs. the nays...

Is traveller a subset/ 'niche' market of the RPG overall market?

Yes 93% (53)
No 4% (2)
Don't know 4% (2)

Another revelation of 26.5 > 1 of those who know, those in denial, and the IDK's...

Does having 6-differing rulesets & 5-eras balkanize the Trav fan base?

Yes 74% (42)
No 18% (10)
Don't know 9% (5)

A fascinating revelation appears of 4 > 1 of yeas vs. the nays, and 8 > 1 of yeas vs. the IDK's....

If fewer people bought Traveller, does the RPG market call it "dead" sales wise?

Yes 63% (36)
No 16% (9)
Don't know 21% (12)

The last result shows a greater dispersion of doubt or lack of knowledge of the market-forces behind the RPG-industry with the 3 > 1 of yeas vs. the IDK's, and a wider gap between the yeas vs. the nays at 4 > 1....

Other interpretations are in the reader's mind and individual perception..

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hunter:
From my estimates, I'd say around 10,000.

Might be slightly larger but I doubt by much.

Well, if that's correct then that blows a few peoples' preconceptions right out of the water - in the past some people have claimed that Traveller's fanbase is more like 100,000.

10,000 is a rather small slice of the RPG market - that's at the upper end of the Indie RPG portion, isn't it? </font>[/QUOTE]Mal, by present-day standards 10,000 is very, very good, if that translates into 10,000 sold copies of a core rulesbook.

If by indie we mean Forge games, then 10K is way better than that. Luke Crane, designer of Burning Wheel, one of the two or three best-selling indies, has said he sold 2000 copies of BW in two years.

If by indie we mean one- or two-person full-time-job companies, then 10K is still rock solid--it would put that company somewhere in between ICE (at the lower end) and Green Ronin (at the high end).

I had feared things were more dire for Traveller than that by now. 10K would actually cheer me up.

This is not to say that today Traveller isn't marginal. It is. In today's RPG market, everything, but everything, is marginal. Except for D&D.

 

[MJD]

Found this early in the thread:

"Not necessarily. See, the biggest part of the market is being ignored. 75% of the market are those CT/MT fans.

Nobody is producing items for that market.

Sure, QLI and Avenger are putting out dual T20/CT items."

Just to clarify... Avenger actually uses CT as a baseline (when we have to use stats at all) and doesn't dual stat with T20. We are in fact targeting that 'neglected' end of the market among other people...

 

[Jeffr0]

MJD,

I think the Golden Age Starships line is what's throwing people off. I also notice most of the stuff for sale on e23 uses T20 stats: Dominoes #1, Robots, Early Fallen...

Most everything there has dual stats, with a few exceptions....

People just aren't as aware of the newer stuff... and things like the e23 lag don't help!

 

[Liam Devlin]

Jeffr0:

The current edition of Op Dominoes: Bk1 at Comstar Games is now T20-free, and Bk2 now has the changes to CT/ Highguard for the few bits that had to be crunchy. Bk3 (underway) will be the same.

 

[Scarecrow]

Whilst we're on the subject of MMORPGs (I call them MOGs - it's easier to pronounce), I came across this the other day:

RealmCrafter

It's a toolkit for making your own MOG. It's designed predominantley for fantasy but having had a quick look at it, it's easy enough to cutomise completely into a sci-fi setting.

Of course it still requires a staggering amount of work but at least the core is already there - the biggest job is the art, really.

I think the biggest setback with a MOG if it were made commercially is that Grognards would have to be prepared to accept a certain degree of 're-imagining' - which might not go down too well!

Crow

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
I think the biggest setback with a MOG if it were made commercially is that Grognards would have to be prepared to accept a certain degree of 're-imagining' - which might not go down too well![/QB]

I think it'd be a waste of time trying to appeal to traveller grognards - they wouldn't be happy whatever one did.

 

[Scarecrow]

That's something that occured to me with the comic idea in the other thread. Even if I were to do a Traveller comic and I were to stick to the official canon (having decided which canon to stick to), whatever I did would be My Traveller Universe. Most people would say, 'it's pretty but it ain't My Traveller Universe.'

I dunno though, You might not have to radically change anything, just give them a bit of a 21st century makover.

Crow

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
That's something that occured to me with the comic idea in the other thread. Even if I were to do a Traveller comic and I were to stick to the official canon (having decided which canon to stick to), whatever I did would be My Traveller Universe. Most people would say, 'it's pretty but it ain't My Traveller Universe.'
Crow

It's funny, I've never seen that happen with D&D. Or any other game for that matter. Just Traveller.

 

[flykiller]

whatever I did would be My Traveller Universe.

if it's interesting, they will come.

 

[The Shaman]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
I think the biggest setback with a MOG if it were made commercially is that Grognards would have to be prepared to accept a certain degree of 're-imagining' - which might not go down too well!

Like what, for example?

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
That's something that occured to me with the comic idea in the other thread. Even if I were to do a Traveller comic and I were to stick to the official canon (having decided which canon to stick to), whatever I did would be My Traveller Universe. Most people would say, 'it's pretty but it ain't My Traveller Universe.'

I dunno about that.

If you're writing a comic that deals with Dulinor's assassination attempt being foiled by Margaret in a ninja-stripper outfit, okay, that might raise a few eyebrows. But a free trader, or a detached duty scout, and a crew of scallywags somewhere in District 268? I'm not seeing the difficulties you're seeing.

I personally don't think Traveller players are any different than Forgotten Realms or Star Wars fans, which is to say, there are a few loud complainers who won't be satisfied with anything and a lot of other gamers who'll just be excited to see the game, or the comic, or whatever.

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
I dunno though, You might not have to radically change anything, just give them a bit of a 21st century makover.

Such as?

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by The Shaman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scarecrow:
I think the biggest setback with a MOG if it were made commercially is that Grognards would have to be prepared to accept a certain degree of 're-imagining' - which might not go down too well!

Like what, for example?</font>[/QUOTE]Not answering for Crow, but one of the biggies that has to go, and would make it very un-Traveller, is the week in jump. You could get away with a couple minutes, like the transports in WOW, but no one is gonna sit in front of the screen waitin interminably for the week in jump to pass.

 

[Klaus]

If you kept em busy keeping the vessel shipshape or canoodling with npc's, or modifying their kit, or training, they wouldn't mind. You can always skip time too.

The main prob is syncing up with the rest of the players.

I'd always prefer a single player rpg, though. MMORPGs mostly seem to glorified chatrooms, tho WoW seems to be an exception.

Chargen would have to be a minigame tho, and would mean some players would start more powerful than others.

 

[flykiller]

no one is gonna sit in front of the screen waitin interminably for the week in jump to pass.

or, for that matter, for a week to pass while a ship maneuvers in-system from one planet to another.

 

[far-trader]

ADDENDUM:

And of course it should be pretty obvious that changing that "one" element causes a whole host of other changes.

Gone is the Imperium stretched to breaking by long comm lags. Gone is the very nature of the age of sail feel.

And you think the economics are bad now? Change trade missions to double or more and suddenly everyone is making credits hand over fist.

Nope. To make a good MOG (to borrow the shorter term) it ain't gonna be Traveller.

So I'm kinda "What's the point?" Know what I mean. You can have a Traveller MOG that no one except maybe a few old guard will play, or you can do a hardish sci-fi MOG that won't be Traveller so it might as well be done big.

 

[Klaus]

To be honest, things like 1 week in jump and such stuff aren't that important, really.

You could create a setting that looks identical to it without it. Ship design, old school guns, Vargr, Hivers etc...

 

[far-trader]

Yep a Traveller video game almost absolutely has to be a solo play or linked concept where the whole group plays along at the same time.

Then you can have stuff to do during that week in jump or time skip it to the next part.

But as a MOG you have players bored outta their skulls stuck on their scout ship while all their buddies in real space are killin things, makin creds, hangin out at the starport bar, waitin for their friends from the next system to finally arrive. Who's having fun.

One way the week in jump could be made to work would be if the only jump transport was huge liners or warships. Locations in themselves that could offer an adventure to fill the time. But that's not Traveller either. No DD Scout in a Courier on their lonesome. No Free-Trader crew and a couple passengers tramping around. No Noble with a Yacht out on a pleasure cruise.