Jamison's Catalog: Xboat Route Transports

[robject]

Marc and Kurega emailed to me roughly the same points that you make, plus one:

(1) Xboat transport companies are virtual "monopolies".

(2) Xboat transport companies ship at close to 100% capacity, unless a schedule doesn't permit.

(3) I have decided (IMTU) for a couple weeks now that passage aboard an Xboat route is much more expensive than standard. Notice how close I come to a "per parsec" effect while smugly claiming that I'm not a "per parsec" guy. Hypocrisy? Note but really that's neither here nor there.

As for why people travel the Xboat routes in the first place: In short, VIPs largely travel the Xboat route. No-one else except the desperate can afford to.

xboat route transports carry high value cargos and passengers. No need to transport "information"... the xboats do that.

Who travels? Nobles (not everyone has a yacht). Government officials, diplomats, naval and military officers (and some enlisted). People with high value business. Merchants. Agents (ie, representatives of corporate interests). Researchers, professors, scientists. High income tourists. The idle rich. Rich people with definite needs (health care, supervision of assets).

Fugitives, refugees, emigres. [note: in small numbers, with ready cash, I reckon. -Rob]

What travels?

Tangible wealth. Gold. diamonds. manufactured parts. Starship parts. Anything that the local world can't build. Art. Antiques.
Limited edition items. Gourmet products. Protoypes. Machine tools.

I'm sort of thinking that Al Morai, Oberlindes et al are the 'other guys' trying to break into a Good Thing. I'm also thinking that, though Business is Business, it's also Family... meaning large corporations are as much about politics as they are about business. I suspect there are lots of governments and corporations which are not economically efficient; if things are not in stasis, or the market is not free, then economics might not dominate.


Consider Oberlindes' business practices. They've apparently offended megacorporate lines. Do you suppose this is a problem?

 

[robject]

Marc and Kurega emailed to me roughly the same points that you make, plus one:

(1) Xboat transport companies are virtual "monopolies".

(2) Xboat transport companies ship at close to 100% capacity, unless a schedule doesn't permit.

(3) I have decided (IMTU) for a couple weeks now that passage aboard an Xboat route is much more expensive than standard. Notice how close I come to a "per parsec" effect while smugly claiming that I'm not a "per parsec" guy. Hypocrisy? Note but really that's neither here nor there.

As for why people travel the Xboat routes in the first place: In short, VIPs largely travel the Xboat route. No-one else except the desperate can afford to.

xboat route transports carry high value cargos and passengers. No need to transport "information"... the xboats do that.

Who travels? Nobles (not everyone has a yacht). Government officials, diplomats, naval and military officers (and some enlisted). People with high value business. Merchants. Agents (ie, representatives of corporate interests). Researchers, professors, scientists. High income tourists. The idle rich. Rich people with definite needs (health care, supervision of assets).

Fugitives, refugees, emigres. [note: in small numbers, with ready cash, I reckon. -Rob]

What travels?

Tangible wealth. Gold. diamonds. manufactured parts. Starship parts. Anything that the local world can't build. Art. Antiques.
Limited edition items. Gourmet products. Protoypes. Machine tools.

I'm sort of thinking that Al Morai, Oberlindes et al are the 'other guys' trying to break into a Good Thing. I'm also thinking that, though Business is Business, it's also Family... meaning large corporations are as much about politics as they are about business. I suspect there are lots of governments and corporations which are not economically efficient; if things are not in stasis, or the market is not free, then economics might not dominate.


Consider Oberlindes' business practices. They've apparently offended megacorporate lines. Do you suppose this is a problem?

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by robject:
(3) I have decided (IMTU) for a couple weeks now that passage aboard an Xboat route is much more expensive than standard. Notice how close I come to a "per parsec" effect while smugly claiming that I'm not a "per parsec" guy. Hypocrisy?

Once you start down the path to the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny...

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by robject:
(3) I have decided (IMTU) for a couple weeks now that passage aboard an Xboat route is much more expensive than standard. Notice how close I come to a "per parsec" effect while smugly claiming that I'm not a "per parsec" guy. Hypocrisy?

Once you start down the path to the Dark Side, forever will it dominate your destiny...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by robject:
Marc and Kurega emailed to me roughly the same points that you make, plus one:

(1) Xboat transport companies are virtual "monopolies".

OK, I'm not going to dismiss that out of hand, but I have to wonder just what is meant by a virtual monopoly. How virtual? How is this monopoly maintained? Take, for example, the 'X-boat passenger trade' between Regina and Rhylanor. Someone like Oberlindes could buy a jump-5 liner, charge 50,000 credits per ticket for passage between Regina and Rhylanor, and get every passenger that used to take Al Morai from Regina to Rhylanor via Lanth there in three weeks instead of in 14 weeks. So how does Al Morai (and, presumably, Tukera) maintain its monopoly? Trade war? Imperial edict forbidding Oberlindes to carry passengers from Regina to Rhylanor?

It seems to me that 'monopoly' is another one of those 'explanation' that doesn't actually explain anything. Or at least needs some serious elucidation.

(3) I have decided (IMTU) for a couple weeks now that passage aboard an Xboat route is much more expensive than standard. Notice how close I come to a "per parsec" effect while smugly claiming that I'm not a "per parsec" guy. Hypocrisy?

Conflicting and incompatible desires? You'd like the canonical CT information to make sense, but it can't be made to. Hence your touch of schizophrenia .

As for why people travel the Xboat routes in the first place: In short, VIPs largely travel the Xboat route. No-one else except the desperate can afford to.

True enough as far as it goes. A return trip from Regina to Rhylanor will cost about Cr100,000 if people go by jump-5 liner via Echiste. Going by jump-2 and jump-3 will take twice as long and cost about half that, but that's still something like five years' income for an average person. The thing is, a world with 800 million people have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who earn more than five times what an average person earns. A world with billions of people have ten times that (more than ten times that? ISTR that the relationship isn't directly proportional, but I could be wrong). So even though I agree that only a small fraction of the total population will ever take an interstellar trip, the total should still (IMO) be much larger than what you're operating with.

That's a side issue here, though. I've never noticed that anyone liked to pay more than they had to, even if they'd cheerfully pay what they needed to. So once again the specter of sound business sense rears its ugly head: If you're a VIP who wants to go from Regina to Rhylanor (or Jewell to Aramis, or Frenzie to Lunion, etc, etc.) why in the universe would you chose to travel with Al Morai?

It would help a lot if the X-boat routes actually did go directly between the important worlds. But they don't.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by robject:
Marc and Kurega emailed to me roughly the same points that you make, plus one:

(1) Xboat transport companies are virtual "monopolies".

OK, I'm not going to dismiss that out of hand, but I have to wonder just what is meant by a virtual monopoly. How virtual? How is this monopoly maintained? Take, for example, the 'X-boat passenger trade' between Regina and Rhylanor. Someone like Oberlindes could buy a jump-5 liner, charge 50,000 credits per ticket for passage between Regina and Rhylanor, and get every passenger that used to take Al Morai from Regina to Rhylanor via Lanth there in three weeks instead of in 14 weeks. So how does Al Morai (and, presumably, Tukera) maintain its monopoly? Trade war? Imperial edict forbidding Oberlindes to carry passengers from Regina to Rhylanor?

It seems to me that 'monopoly' is another one of those 'explanation' that doesn't actually explain anything. Or at least needs some serious elucidation.

(3) I have decided (IMTU) for a couple weeks now that passage aboard an Xboat route is much more expensive than standard. Notice how close I come to a "per parsec" effect while smugly claiming that I'm not a "per parsec" guy. Hypocrisy?

Conflicting and incompatible desires? You'd like the canonical CT information to make sense, but it can't be made to. Hence your touch of schizophrenia .

As for why people travel the Xboat routes in the first place: In short, VIPs largely travel the Xboat route. No-one else except the desperate can afford to.

True enough as far as it goes. A return trip from Regina to Rhylanor will cost about Cr100,000 if people go by jump-5 liner via Echiste. Going by jump-2 and jump-3 will take twice as long and cost about half that, but that's still something like five years' income for an average person. The thing is, a world with 800 million people have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who earn more than five times what an average person earns. A world with billions of people have ten times that (more than ten times that? ISTR that the relationship isn't directly proportional, but I could be wrong). So even though I agree that only a small fraction of the total population will ever take an interstellar trip, the total should still (IMO) be much larger than what you're operating with.

That's a side issue here, though. I've never noticed that anyone liked to pay more than they had to, even if they'd cheerfully pay what they needed to. So once again the specter of sound business sense rears its ugly head: If you're a VIP who wants to go from Regina to Rhylanor (or Jewell to Aramis, or Frenzie to Lunion, etc, etc.) why in the universe would you chose to travel with Al Morai?

It would help a lot if the X-boat routes actually did go directly between the important worlds. But they don't.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

[aside]The CT Spinward Marches mentions the proposed link from Dinomn (to Regina) be extended to Rhylanor via Tureded, while Twilight's Peak mentions the construction of a link Risek - Echiste - Yori - Regina. The former may have to go through Echiste too, in order to avoid having a second jump 5 x-boat link in the Marches

Hypothesis 1 - the duchies of Regina and Rhylanor like having the circuitous civilian route. It allows them to maintain the sharing of the Lanth subsector between them. A direct link would encourage trade and settlement, which would add pressure to those calling for more autonomy for a duchy of Lanth.

Hypothesis 2 - the rumour of competing x-boat routes and trade links could be the result of megacorporations fighting it out to decide who gets the prime contracts on the new route.[/aside]

 

[mike wightman]

[aside]The CT Spinward Marches mentions the proposed link from Dinomn (to Regina) be extended to Rhylanor via Tureded, while Twilight's Peak mentions the construction of a link Risek - Echiste - Yori - Regina. The former may have to go through Echiste too, in order to avoid having a second jump 5 x-boat link in the Marches

Hypothesis 1 - the duchies of Regina and Rhylanor like having the circuitous civilian route. It allows them to maintain the sharing of the Lanth subsector between them. A direct link would encourage trade and settlement, which would add pressure to those calling for more autonomy for a duchy of Lanth.

Hypothesis 2 - the rumour of competing x-boat routes and trade links could be the result of megacorporations fighting it out to decide who gets the prime contracts on the new route.[/aside]

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Hypothesis 1 - the duchies of Regina and Rhylanor like having the circuitous civilian route. It allows them to maintain the sharing of the Lanth subsector between them. A direct link would encourage trade and settlement, which would add pressure to those calling for more autonomy for a duchy of Lanth.

A duchy of Lanth isn't going to happen anytime soon. The total population of the Lanth subsector is far too pitiful for that.

Incidentally, I don't have any objection to an X-boat link from Regina to Lanth, or between the the Mora-Rhylanor link and Lanth. After all, Lanth is a subsector capital (and possibly a county of the the Duchy of Regina (although the population is rather small for a county too)). What I object to is:

1) Commercial traffic going through Lanth just because there's an X-boat link.

2) The lack of a direct X-boat link between Mora and Regina.



Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Hypothesis 1 - the duchies of Regina and Rhylanor like having the circuitous civilian route. It allows them to maintain the sharing of the Lanth subsector between them. A direct link would encourage trade and settlement, which would add pressure to those calling for more autonomy for a duchy of Lanth.

A duchy of Lanth isn't going to happen anytime soon. The total population of the Lanth subsector is far too pitiful for that.

Incidentally, I don't have any objection to an X-boat link from Regina to Lanth, or between the the Mora-Rhylanor link and Lanth. After all, Lanth is a subsector capital (and possibly a county of the the Duchy of Regina (although the population is rather small for a county too)). What I object to is:

1) Commercial traffic going through Lanth just because there's an X-boat link.

2) The lack of a direct X-boat link between Mora and Regina.



Hans

 

[robject]

Yep, I understand your concerns, Hans. For all the patriotic flag-waving the Imperium does in the name of Free Trade, it still seems like it's politics as usual trumping business as usual.

Edit Even I want to see the economic benefits of the Xboat route; but not understanding the nature of the Xboat route is where my problems begin. It may be that very little of Xboat traffic actually moves more than three jumps...

Another quote that's likely not to satisfy:

Xboat routes are not Interstate Highways, built to maximize trade. They are the government's communications system. Where messages flow (to government centers) there is naturally a flow of supporting goods, and of government people.

I think that the interstellar liners are dependent on government travel, and on mail. The trade follows because the transport is there.

This is the "Tail wagging the dog" solution: sectorwide and megacorporate transport lines exist to serve governments first, and haul cargo second. Although they probably make more money hauling cargo, their permits are stamped by government.

But you've already noted how localized the network is. So even particularly efficient communications isn't the primary reason for the Xboat routes to exist (we already know why this is not a military problem).

 

[robject]

Yep, I understand your concerns, Hans. For all the patriotic flag-waving the Imperium does in the name of Free Trade, it still seems like it's politics as usual trumping business as usual.

Edit Even I want to see the economic benefits of the Xboat route; but not understanding the nature of the Xboat route is where my problems begin. It may be that very little of Xboat traffic actually moves more than three jumps...

Another quote that's likely not to satisfy:

Xboat routes are not Interstate Highways, built to maximize trade. They are the government's communications system. Where messages flow (to government centers) there is naturally a flow of supporting goods, and of government people.

I think that the interstellar liners are dependent on government travel, and on mail. The trade follows because the transport is there.

This is the "Tail wagging the dog" solution: sectorwide and megacorporate transport lines exist to serve governments first, and haul cargo second. Although they probably make more money hauling cargo, their permits are stamped by government.

But you've already noted how localized the network is. So even particularly efficient communications isn't the primary reason for the Xboat routes to exist (we already know why this is not a military problem).

 

[parmasson]

I makes some sense if you look at it like this…

Take a thousand year old empire that is not directly responsible to the people and combine it with the traditional Vilani conservative attitude then slap on top of it hereditary lordships. That means that lots of things are not going to make sense. How many important and not so important people does it take to plot an X-boat route?

Great Cleon’s Ghost, it would be easier to invade Zho space than to change an X-boat route. There are the IISS people and nobles, court and subsector nobles, Navy, Megacorps, local officials and guilds. The paperwork alone would take fifty years.

We have word for that “ossified”

 

[parmasson]

I makes some sense if you look at it like this…

Take a thousand year old empire that is not directly responsible to the people and combine it with the traditional Vilani conservative attitude then slap on top of it hereditary lordships. That means that lots of things are not going to make sense. How many important and not so important people does it take to plot an X-boat route?

Great Cleon’s Ghost, it would be easier to invade Zho space than to change an X-boat route. There are the IISS people and nobles, court and subsector nobles, Navy, Megacorps, local officials and guilds. The paperwork alone would take fifty years.

We have word for that “ossified”

 

[parmasson]

This is how could go…

Junior IISS official: Sir, why does that X-boat go there?

Senior official: Because it has always gone there since the time of Cleon I. Listen here son, don’t ask questions like that if you want to make it to your pension. Just make damn sure that it gets there on time. Ok?

Junior official: Yes sir!

Senior: Good lad, you will go far.

 

[parmasson]

This is how could go…

Junior IISS official: Sir, why does that X-boat go there?

Senior official: Because it has always gone there since the time of Cleon I. Listen here son, don’t ask questions like that if you want to make it to your pension. Just make damn sure that it gets there on time. Ok?

Junior official: Yes sir!

Senior: Good lad, you will go far.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
This is how could go…

Junior IISS official: Sir, why does that X-boat go there?

Senior official: Because it has always gone there since the time of Cleon I. Listen here son, don’t ask questions like that if you want to make it to your pension. Just make damn sure that it gets there on time. Ok?

Junior official: Yes sir!

Senior: Good lad, you will go far.

Junior official #2: Sir? Wasn't the Xboat route nonexistant until after Arbellatra?

Senior: What we have here, is a failure to communicate...

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
This is how could go…

Junior IISS official: Sir, why does that X-boat go there?

Senior official: Because it has always gone there since the time of Cleon I. Listen here son, don’t ask questions like that if you want to make it to your pension. Just make damn sure that it gets there on time. Ok?

Junior official: Yes sir!

Senior: Good lad, you will go far.

Junior official #2: Sir? Wasn't the Xboat route nonexistant until after Arbellatra?

Senior: What we have here, is a failure to communicate...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
I makes some sense if you look at it like this…

Take a thousand year old empire that is not directly responsible to the people and combine it with the traditional Vilani conservative attitude then slap on top of it hereditary lordships. That means that lots of things are not going to make sense. How many important and not so important people does it take to plot an X-boat route?

Great Cleon’s Ghost, it would be easier to invade Zho space than to change an X-boat route. There are the IISS people and nobles, court and subsector nobles, Navy, Megacorps, local officials and guilds. The paperwork alone would take fifty years.

We have word for that “ossified”

It's not the weird shape of the X-boat network that's the problem. My own explanation for that is that it has become obsolete long ago and that the government doesn't actually rely on it at all (The nobles and bureaucrats send reports and orders by Navy courier instead).

The problem is the alleged causal link between the X-boat network and commercial traffic. I don't actually believe that things would work like they're decribed in canon. Whoever wrote that was applying 20th Century commercial reality to Age of Sail-type conditions. You don't send a load of groat meat to Judice because some wholesaler there has discovered a sudden urgent need for groat meat and sent you an order by X-boat. You send it either because that chandler ordered it months ago or because you're pretty sure there will be Vargr groat-meat buyers present who will buy it.

But if you did, if there really was such a causal link between X-boat routes and commercial traffic, then the X-boat routes would follow the obvious trade routes and they would go directly, not meander about like a drunken sailor on land.

I don't believe that if Raweh has enough passengers and trade to keep one of Al Morai's ships busy, then Mora to Fornice wouldn't have enough passengers to keep scores of such ships busy. Likewise, I don't believe that if Mora to Fornice only generates enough passengers and trade to keep one or two ships busy then Raweh and Wonstar would be able to generate one hundreth of the passengers and trade to keep a single ship busy. And I most certainly don't believe that the presence of an X-boat connection makes a blind bit of difference.

What I could see sense in was that the X-boats and the main trade lanes overlapped because many worlds would need both communication and trade. This would produce a correlation between the two networks, but I don't believe in a causal relationship.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
I makes some sense if you look at it like this…

Take a thousand year old empire that is not directly responsible to the people and combine it with the traditional Vilani conservative attitude then slap on top of it hereditary lordships. That means that lots of things are not going to make sense. How many important and not so important people does it take to plot an X-boat route?

Great Cleon’s Ghost, it would be easier to invade Zho space than to change an X-boat route. There are the IISS people and nobles, court and subsector nobles, Navy, Megacorps, local officials and guilds. The paperwork alone would take fifty years.

We have word for that “ossified”

It's not the weird shape of the X-boat network that's the problem. My own explanation for that is that it has become obsolete long ago and that the government doesn't actually rely on it at all (The nobles and bureaucrats send reports and orders by Navy courier instead).

The problem is the alleged causal link between the X-boat network and commercial traffic. I don't actually believe that things would work like they're decribed in canon. Whoever wrote that was applying 20th Century commercial reality to Age of Sail-type conditions. You don't send a load of groat meat to Judice because some wholesaler there has discovered a sudden urgent need for groat meat and sent you an order by X-boat. You send it either because that chandler ordered it months ago or because you're pretty sure there will be Vargr groat-meat buyers present who will buy it.

But if you did, if there really was such a causal link between X-boat routes and commercial traffic, then the X-boat routes would follow the obvious trade routes and they would go directly, not meander about like a drunken sailor on land.

I don't believe that if Raweh has enough passengers and trade to keep one of Al Morai's ships busy, then Mora to Fornice wouldn't have enough passengers to keep scores of such ships busy. Likewise, I don't believe that if Mora to Fornice only generates enough passengers and trade to keep one or two ships busy then Raweh and Wonstar would be able to generate one hundreth of the passengers and trade to keep a single ship busy. And I most certainly don't believe that the presence of an X-boat connection makes a blind bit of difference.

What I could see sense in was that the X-boats and the main trade lanes overlapped because many worlds would need both communication and trade. This would produce a correlation between the two networks, but I don't believe in a causal relationship.


Hans