Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
I feel a poll coming on...
Lasers: Are they silent? Are they visible?
- Thread starter Todg
- Start date
It could be psycological, laser weapons do not have the subconcious macho feeling that most firearms have, face it a 2mm red beam of light is'nt as intimidating as burst .308 rifle bullets, a 12 gauge shotgun blast, or even 9mm comming from a pistolor SMG. Most roleplayers have a mental image of their character, it is usually a heroic image, (Dirty Harry, Resse from The Terminator, Rambo, etc.) and that image affects the selcetion of weapons. Hell I'm even guilty of it, my character for the COTEM PBEM campaign comes striding in with an accelerator rifle that has a sawed-off pump shotgun mounted under the barrel. Of coursehe changes his weapons for the situational need, on his last mission hecarried a Laser pistol for practical purposes (Breaking into an armored car you need a good laser in case you can't open the door). But we digress....
I never had any players like them either, so I asked one. He didn't like the backpack/beltpack thing. Strange, he was all for FGMP/PGMPs, backpack or no.
My own PCs never used one 'cause there ain't no autofire option. I always got into the sort of problems that could be solved with wasting a crapload of ammo. Maybe a TU man-portable laser that could rock'n'roll would help? Plenty of folks are willing to hump around something as heavy as an M60, a 'crew-served' model isn't really anywhere in the CT/MT stuff I have.
My own PCs never used one 'cause there ain't no autofire option. I always got into the sort of problems that could be solved with wasting a crapload of ammo. Maybe a TU man-portable laser that could rock'n'roll would help? Plenty of folks are willing to hump around something as heavy as an M60, a 'crew-served' model isn't really anywhere in the CT/MT stuff I have.
Major issue for laser visibility is the wavelength (visible light lasers will be easy to spot if there's anything to scatter the beam) and power density. Air has a nonlinear response to light, so if you send enough energy through a small enough amount of air in a short enough amount of time, the air will glow. In the case of mid-IR lasers such as THEL, we're talking megawatts per square centimeter, which THEL doesn't approach. For short wavelength lasers, the effect is much more pronounced.
On the other hand, actually penetrating armor generally requires power outputs in the megawatts per square centimeter range, so SF-style laser weapons will generally be visible in atmosphere.
On the other hand, actually penetrating armor generally requires power outputs in the megawatts per square centimeter range, so SF-style laser weapons will generally be visible in atmosphere.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You will, however, find high ROF lasers in both TNE and T4
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
For TNE look in the Reformation Coalition Equipment guide, and for T4 it's the Emperor's Arsenal book (or alternatively look for the BITS At Close Quarters book).
Both contain examples of laser weapons with autofore capability and laser support weapons.
Both contain examples of laser weapons with autofore capability and laser support weapons.
Or also Fire Fusion & Steel and build your own
so they don't quite fit with the flavour of ye olde CT 
where if memory serve's me (and it usually doesn't) they were kick ass, even in MT theyre pretty good aren't they? penetration/attenuation wise? Thus they (lasers) usually get no use in my games and I prefer to rule that they do leave a "dew line".(directed energy weapon line through atmosphere)
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Part II of my IMTU laser diatribe...
... which is not to say that there arent disadvantages to lasers in the Game im running... the usual atmospheric conditions can limit the visible spectrum ones, the "Power Problem" of course (backpacks and whatnot) and the expense of repair... ablat/reflec, anti-laser areosols, etc...
Often, if a laser is damaged in combat or accident, enough to make it no longer function, the repair costs under most situations make it impractical to repair (IE it would cost as much or near the price to fix as it would to buy a new one..)Again, it depends on the Tech Level...
Firearms of a conventional sort are much easier in comparison to maintain and service, if the need arises... as well as the versitility of guns is expanded by the many different types of ammunition available...
One thing is certain though, if someone whips out a High Function type laser in combat, its a sure way to tell that they are most definitely playing for keeps...
... which is not to say that there arent disadvantages to lasers in the Game im running... the usual atmospheric conditions can limit the visible spectrum ones, the "Power Problem" of course (backpacks and whatnot) and the expense of repair... ablat/reflec, anti-laser areosols, etc...
Often, if a laser is damaged in combat or accident, enough to make it no longer function, the repair costs under most situations make it impractical to repair (IE it would cost as much or near the price to fix as it would to buy a new one..)Again, it depends on the Tech Level...
Firearms of a conventional sort are much easier in comparison to maintain and service, if the need arises... as well as the versitility of guns is expanded by the many different types of ammunition available...
One thing is certain though, if someone whips out a High Function type laser in combat, its a sure way to tell that they are most definitely playing for keeps...
I suppose that is dependant on how Lasers work IYTU. If lasser small arms get to the point that they are general issue military weapons, they'll have to be at least as rugged as conventional weapons, or have some other feature that makes up for a fragile nature or else they'd never get issued.
IMTU, I have not only traditional CT lasers, but also lasers that utilize single-use enegergy cells that provide power for a single shot. Yes, indeed, laser weapons that have cartridges. These laser weapons are more expensive than conventional weapons, as is their ammo, so they are generally relegated to special purposes - for example, zero G combat.
I've never quite figured out why the authors made lasers small arms relatively useless. Why are we still using rifles in the far future? You'd think we'd have something different after 5000 years.
IMTU, I have not only traditional CT lasers, but also lasers that utilize single-use enegergy cells that provide power for a single shot. Yes, indeed, laser weapons that have cartridges. These laser weapons are more expensive than conventional weapons, as is their ammo, so they are generally relegated to special purposes - for example, zero G combat.
I've never quite figured out why the authors made lasers small arms relatively useless. Why are we still using rifles in the far future? You'd think we'd have something different after 5000 years.
How do you work these 'single cell' lasers? Is the damage same per shot as CT canon? How about auto or panic fire? Ammo and weapon weights? How many types do you detail(e.g. SMG/carbine, rifle or autorifle, pistol, some sort of LMG?) It's a great idea, sort of like David Drakes powerguns or somesuch, zappity-zap-zap-zap.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Chemical cartridge lasers are a standard feature of TNE (and FF&S) laser weapons. The laser ACR is a TL13 development according to T4 (lower TL models are civilian designs), which fits with the MT laser family tree.
CT versions would be interesting.
CT versions would be interesting.
Since I'm a CT ref, I use CT damage. There are pistol carbine and rifle versions. Full auto version never came up. Of course one concern is heat, particularly for a weapon that's going to be used in vacuum, but I suppose you could have autofire as an option.
Is there interest? </font>[/QUOTE]Yup.
I remember LMGs in Merc having some problems during prolonged firing, sorta like real life, the barrel heats up and has to be changed. It works similiarly with all of D. Drake's powerguns, and likely something could be worked out for lasers. Something vital that gets burnt out and or whatever and can be replaced.
I imagine the military would want to control use of an auto-fire capable chemical-cart. laser, so maybe over-heating is only a problem for 'hot-shotted' civ lasers. I didn't even think of some kind of anti-armor one-shots or whatever, like a LAWS or RPG sorta thing, that'd be good too. Not canon, but I'd have these things IMTU.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
FF&S says that CLC lasers aren't used for starship weapons due to the hazardous chemicals involved.
Andrew Moreton
SOC-5
I would say that the other reason Starships don't use them is that Starships do have room for the Generators needed to make DEI Lasers effective so CLC lasers become a problem because they need all that ammunition instead of a small increase in powerpalnt size
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
That too.
I read this and immediately thought of the "power guns" in David Drake's Hammer's Slammers books, which while not exactly lasers, operate in a similar fashion and to similar effect.
If memory serves, the cartridges also contain coolant to alleviate the overheating problem. Drake gives a reasonably detailed explanation in one of the earlier Slammers books or stories.
Overall, I think this is an awesome idea, and getting rid of the backpacks eliminates one of the main reasons players seem to eschew laser small arms.
John
