LBB1/LBB4 To-Hit Probabilities

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ptah:
I like that last idea. It even makes sense to me to use 1 defense roll. One way I see to speed this up is to throw the hit location dice with the attack/to hit dice.

When The GM throws to-hit for NPCs.

I figure, when a PC rolls, the player can roll his to-hit while the GM rolls hit loction behind a screen.

I'm a big proponent of the players not knowing the outcome of a roll until the GM describes it in the action.

Sometimes, I've seen a game get "stale" when the players know what they need to hit. Traveller combat can be like this, at times...because everyone already knows they've hit as soon as the dice read 8 or better.

Remember the good old D&D days? Players would roll...and then wait breathlessly to see if they hit. The GM, not telling the players the AC of the enemy they're fighting, is the only one who knew whether a hit was good or not.

I used this to my advantage, drawing my players "into" the game. I'd never tell them, "You hit. Roll damage."

I'd always describe some scene. "You swing, with all your might, sweat in your eyes, you can't see! But when the blade bites deep and can actually feel it strike bone, you know you've dealt a good blow."

My players always got off to that.

I notice, when we play Traveller, some of that "immersion" is missing. All know that an 8+ hits. As soon as they roll their dice, then know whether they're successful or not.

Well, with this defense roll, they'll not quite know whether they hit, will they?

There will be some tension--waiting to see if the shot was good.

This is another thing leading me to the defense roll. I can start describing outcomes again. The players will hang on every word of my description. We're talking more "immersion", which is always good.

On the flip side, too, it will be hairy when the players roll their defense roll.

"Oh my gawd! The Vargr rolled a total of 15 against you! It's going to be tough! If you don't roll 15 or higher, your character is shot!"

And, when the gunshot we're talking about is 4D +3 damage, all summed and taken randomly against one stat...well, that's something to sweat, isn't it.

I think this new combat system is going to raise the excitement level of my game...in combat anyway.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ptah:
I like that last idea. It even makes sense to me to use 1 defense roll. One way I see to speed this up is to throw the hit location dice with the attack/to hit dice.

When The GM throws to-hit for NPCs.

I figure, when a PC rolls, the player can roll his to-hit while the GM rolls hit loction behind a screen.

I'm a big proponent of the players not knowing the outcome of a roll until the GM describes it in the action.

Sometimes, I've seen a game get "stale" when the players know what they need to hit. Traveller combat can be like this, at times...because everyone already knows they've hit as soon as the dice read 8 or better.

Remember the good old D&D days? Players would roll...and then wait breathlessly to see if they hit. The GM, not telling the players the AC of the enemy they're fighting, is the only one who knew whether a hit was good or not.

I used this to my advantage, drawing my players "into" the game. I'd never tell them, "You hit. Roll damage."

I'd always describe some scene. "You swing, with all your might, sweat in your eyes, you can't see! But when the blade bites deep and can actually feel it strike bone, you know you've dealt a good blow."

My players always got off to that.

I notice, when we play Traveller, some of that "immersion" is missing. All know that an 8+ hits. As soon as they roll their dice, then know whether they're successful or not.

Well, with this defense roll, they'll not quite know whether they hit, will they?

There will be some tension--waiting to see if the shot was good.

This is another thing leading me to the defense roll. I can start describing outcomes again. The players will hang on every word of my description. We're talking more "immersion", which is always good.

On the flip side, too, it will be hairy when the players roll their defense roll.

"Oh my gawd! The Vargr rolled a total of 15 against you! It's going to be tough! If you don't roll 15 or higher, your character is shot!"

And, when the gunshot we're talking about is 4D +3 damage, all summed and taken randomly against one stat...well, that's something to sweat, isn't it.

I think this new combat system is going to raise the excitement level of my game...in combat anyway.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
...

Remember the good old D&D days? Players would roll...and then wait breathlessly to see if they hit. The GM, not telling the players the AC of the enemy they're fighting, is the only one who knew whether a hit was good or not.

What do you mean old days? We're still rock'in that style of play even though it's not D&D.

I agree on the excitement factor of the unknown. Yet, in CT/UGM they still don't know how many hits the opponent can take.

I find the latter pretty good for description on how "hurt" the opponent is looking. But we also use a defense aspect so a player can roll to-hit but he doesn't know how good at defending the other guy is, so it is uncertain, until a few attacks are made then they know pretty well. Just like in the ole' D&D tables, until we menorized them.

I tend to roll everything in the open that I can. Since we use a 2D10 approach add the dice, for a trap check, e.g., I'll roll one die in secret the player gets to roll the other. That can make for some tense moments when their roll is bad; was my roll good enough for them to succeed?

Nice to see your still cranking out some good stuff.
-Ptah

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
...

Remember the good old D&D days? Players would roll...and then wait breathlessly to see if they hit. The GM, not telling the players the AC of the enemy they're fighting, is the only one who knew whether a hit was good or not.

What do you mean old days? We're still rock'in that style of play even though it's not D&D.

I agree on the excitement factor of the unknown. Yet, in CT/UGM they still don't know how many hits the opponent can take.

I find the latter pretty good for description on how "hurt" the opponent is looking. But we also use a defense aspect so a player can roll to-hit but he doesn't know how good at defending the other guy is, so it is uncertain, until a few attacks are made then they know pretty well. Just like in the ole' D&D tables, until we menorized them.

I tend to roll everything in the open that I can. Since we use a 2D10 approach add the dice, for a trap check, e.g., I'll roll one die in secret the player gets to roll the other. That can make for some tense moments when their roll is bad; was my roll good enough for them to succeed?

Nice to see your still cranking out some good stuff.
-Ptah

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ptah:
I tend to roll everything in the open that I can.

Not me. Used to. A while back I realized the value of keeping as much hidden from the player as possible--for immersion.

Now, I roll everything I can behind a screen. It also helps when I'm cheating. If I want an outcome to come out a certain way, I'll pick up dice and throw them behind the screen, ignoring their outcome, but playing as if I was playing the outcome of the roll.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ptah:
I tend to roll everything in the open that I can.

Not me. Used to. A while back I realized the value of keeping as much hidden from the player as possible--for immersion.

Now, I roll everything I can behind a screen. It also helps when I'm cheating. If I want an outcome to come out a certain way, I'll pick up dice and throw them behind the screen, ignoring their outcome, but playing as if I was playing the outcome of the roll.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at some stats on my new system.

What we're looking for is for the advantage to be on the defender's side...since combat is so deadly.

This way, the bullets will fly, but PCs can survive. And, we all have those neat, movie-like shoot outs.

Let's consider an average DEX-7 character taking a pop shot at a target. The target is behind cover and at short range.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 2 Evasion 1
DEX 0 UGM DEX 0
Range 2 Cover 4
------------------ -------------------
11 12</pre>[/QUOTE]Note that cover is imperative at short range (as it should be). Don't approach a target out in the open!

The UGM DEX bonus is iffy on this one (considering the DEX 7 of the target). I went with 0 bonus, but there's a good chance that the defender will get another +1 due to his DEX.

Also, I used an average 2D roll of 7 for both rolls.

Does this do what we want it to do? Yes. See, even without the UGM DEX +1, the Defense roll averages 2 points over the Attack roll (because a tie goes to the defender). As was pointed out earlier in this thread, +2 on a 2D system is HUGE.

And, there's plenty of room for the attacker to land his shot.

Consider, too, if the defender were not behind cover. Then, we'd use his Speed rating in that spot. Speed-0 is stationary. Speed-1 is walking. Speed-2 is running (and some aliens, like Vargr, can achieve higher speed ratings).

By not using cover, and just moving, this tips the shot into the attackers favor.

I'll say it again: Under this system, move from cover to cover--just like you would in a tactical first person shooter computer game. Cover-to-Cover will be the only way to survive combat in Traveller given these rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at some stats on my new system.

What we're looking for is for the advantage to be on the defender's side...since combat is so deadly.

This way, the bullets will fly, but PCs can survive. And, we all have those neat, movie-like shoot outs.

Let's consider an average DEX-7 character taking a pop shot at a target. The target is behind cover and at short range.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 2 Evasion 1
DEX 0 UGM DEX 0
Range 2 Cover 4
------------------ -------------------
11 12</pre>[/QUOTE]Note that cover is imperative at short range (as it should be). Don't approach a target out in the open!

The UGM DEX bonus is iffy on this one (considering the DEX 7 of the target). I went with 0 bonus, but there's a good chance that the defender will get another +1 due to his DEX.

Also, I used an average 2D roll of 7 for both rolls.

Does this do what we want it to do? Yes. See, even without the UGM DEX +1, the Defense roll averages 2 points over the Attack roll (because a tie goes to the defender). As was pointed out earlier in this thread, +2 on a 2D system is HUGE.

And, there's plenty of room for the attacker to land his shot.

Consider, too, if the defender were not behind cover. Then, we'd use his Speed rating in that spot. Speed-0 is stationary. Speed-1 is walking. Speed-2 is running (and some aliens, like Vargr, can achieve higher speed ratings).

By not using cover, and just moving, this tips the shot into the attackers favor.

I'll say it again: Under this system, move from cover to cover--just like you would in a tactical first person shooter computer game. Cover-to-Cover will be the only way to survive combat in Traveller given these rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at another example.

This time, we'll take a professional (Skill-3) with a high DEX. To make it a fair assessment, we'll assume the target has the same DEX rating.

Rifle shot. Medium Range. Target not behind cover but running (Speed-2).

Let's see how that works out:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 3 Evasion 2
DEX 1 UGM DEX 1
Range 0 Speed 2
------------------- ---------------------
11 12</pre>[/QUOTE]Again, we see the result we want--an edge, by two points, in the defender's favor.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at another example.

This time, we'll take a professional (Skill-3) with a high DEX. To make it a fair assessment, we'll assume the target has the same DEX rating.

Rifle shot. Medium Range. Target not behind cover but running (Speed-2).

Let's see how that works out:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 3 Evasion 2
DEX 1 UGM DEX 1
Range 0 Speed 2
------------------- ---------------------
11 12</pre>[/QUOTE]Again, we see the result we want--an edge, by two points, in the defender's favor.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at a real hard one.

Let's do an SMG attack, from a skilled weapon master, at Short Range.

The skilled weapon master has DEX 11 and SMG-4.

Our target is walking down the hallway of a starship, no cover, but expects the attack. He also has DEX 11 (to compare apples to apples).

Note that when a target does not expect an attack, then the defense roll is still made, but certain modifers (like Evasion) are not permitted to modify the roll...making it much easier to hit an unsuspecting target.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 4 Evasion 1
DEX 2 UGM DEX 1
Range 3 Speed 1
------------------- -------------------
16 10</pre>[/QUOTE]I did this example to show that there's room for a highly skilled individual to use a weapon he's highly experienced with (namely, a Player Character) to blow enemies away.

In order for the defender in this situation to escape, the attacker must roll low, and the defender must roll high. Otherwise, the defender is hit.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at a real hard one.

Let's do an SMG attack, from a skilled weapon master, at Short Range.

The skilled weapon master has DEX 11 and SMG-4.

Our target is walking down the hallway of a starship, no cover, but expects the attack. He also has DEX 11 (to compare apples to apples).

Note that when a target does not expect an attack, then the defense roll is still made, but certain modifers (like Evasion) are not permitted to modify the roll...making it much easier to hit an unsuspecting target.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 4 Evasion 1
DEX 2 UGM DEX 1
Range 3 Speed 1
------------------- -------------------
16 10</pre>[/QUOTE]I did this example to show that there's room for a highly skilled individual to use a weapon he's highly experienced with (namely, a Player Character) to blow enemies away.

In order for the defender in this situation to escape, the attacker must roll low, and the defender must roll high. Otherwise, the defender is hit.

 

[Supplement Four]

Last one (for now). Shotgun vs. target under cover.

Picture the empty hold of a starship. Target finds cover behind the gravfork. Attacker is at Medium range, using his Shotgun-3 skill.

Both characters have DEX 5.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 3 Evasion 2
DEX 0 UGM DEX 0
Range 3 Cover 4
------------------- --------------------
13 13</pre>[/QUOTE]This is slightly in the target's favor, as the defender wins with a tie.

 

[Supplement Four]

Last one (for now). Shotgun vs. target under cover.

Picture the empty hold of a starship. Target finds cover behind the gravfork. Attacker is at Medium range, using his Shotgun-3 skill.

Both characters have DEX 5.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2D Attack Roll 7 2D Defense Roll 7
Skill 3 Evasion 2
DEX 0 UGM DEX 0
Range 3 Cover 4
------------------- --------------------
13 13</pre>[/QUOTE]This is slightly in the target's favor, as the defender wins with a tie.

 

[Supplement Four]

As for Hit Location, I've put some more thought into this tonight.

Here's what I'm thining:

Critical Success: +1D Damage


</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head +1D Damage
Arms -1D Damage
Torso Normal Damage
Legs -1D Damage</pre>[/QUOTE]When a -1D Damage result comes up, you can simply roll one less die of damage.

But, to be even more PC-Friendly, I'm thinking that normal damage is rolled, but the highest die is removed.

Which makes sense given that most body armor covers the torso only.

 

[Supplement Four]

As for Hit Location, I've put some more thought into this tonight.

Here's what I'm thining:

Critical Success: +1D Damage


</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Head +1D Damage
Arms -1D Damage
Torso Normal Damage
Legs -1D Damage</pre>[/QUOTE]When a -1D Damage result comes up, you can simply roll one less die of damage.

But, to be even more PC-Friendly, I'm thinking that normal damage is rolled, but the highest die is removed.

Which makes sense given that most body armor covers the torso only.

 

[Supplement Four]

Also note, in my game I use a mechanic called "Drawing on Experience".

During the game, if a player has a good idea or roleplays something well, I give him an experience point, right then and there.

It's a scooby snack for a job well done. My players dig this.

These points collect as game session passes to game session.

A player can use these points to modify rolls they make during the game. The catch is, one experience point does not equal a whold +1 DM.

It works like this...

Say a character has built up 10 xp. from various game sessions based on his play. When a player wants to use these points, he rolls 1D, subtracting the roll from his total XP. That's how much a +1DM costs.

So, if a 5 was rolled on the D6, then the player is allowed to use a +1 DM on his next roll, and he now has 5 XP.

If the player really needs 2 or more DMs, then he can roll more dice. For example, let's say the character with 10 xp needs a +2DM on his next roll.

Well, the player will roll 2D, subtracting that total from his total xp. 2D roll...equals 5. Then the character would have a +2 DM, with 5 xp left.

Had the 2D roll been 11 or 12, then all xp would have been spent without benefit.

If a character has a lot of xp, then 3D or more can be roll for higher DMs.

It works like that.

There's no reason why a player couldn't draw on experience like this to obtain a DM when rolling his Defense roll...especially when he knows the attack roll against him is high.

 

[Supplement Four]

Also note, in my game I use a mechanic called "Drawing on Experience".

During the game, if a player has a good idea or roleplays something well, I give him an experience point, right then and there.

It's a scooby snack for a job well done. My players dig this.

These points collect as game session passes to game session.

A player can use these points to modify rolls they make during the game. The catch is, one experience point does not equal a whold +1 DM.

It works like this...

Say a character has built up 10 xp. from various game sessions based on his play. When a player wants to use these points, he rolls 1D, subtracting the roll from his total XP. That's how much a +1DM costs.

So, if a 5 was rolled on the D6, then the player is allowed to use a +1 DM on his next roll, and he now has 5 XP.

If the player really needs 2 or more DMs, then he can roll more dice. For example, let's say the character with 10 xp needs a +2DM on his next roll.

Well, the player will roll 2D, subtracting that total from his total xp. 2D roll...equals 5. Then the character would have a +2 DM, with 5 xp left.

Had the 2D roll been 11 or 12, then all xp would have been spent without benefit.

If a character has a lot of xp, then 3D or more can be roll for higher DMs.

It works like that.

There's no reason why a player couldn't draw on experience like this to obtain a DM when rolling his Defense roll...especially when he knows the attack roll against him is high.

 

[Supplement Four]

Idea for Panic Fire.

Right now, in my game, I use the Panic Fire rule from Book 4. Tweaked a bit, of course.

Basically, the rule says you can attack up to three times in a combat round if you take a -2 DM on each attack.

Three aims and squeezes of the trigger in 15 seconds...one per 5 seconds (or faster, if you move during the round) seems logical.

What if, in the interest in cutting down on rolls, we combine this into one single roll.

Your autopistol, you can fire one, two, or three times during your round, just as you can with the Panic Fire rule.

If you fire once, you roll a normal attack. If you hit, you do normal damage.

If you fire twice, you roll a normal attack at -1. If you hit, you do normal damage +2.

If you fire three times, you roll a normal attack at -2. If you hit, you do normal damage +1D damage.

Something like that.

This way, if you combine panic fire with autofire, you're still only rolling the dice twice--not six times.

And the defense roll is once.

Something to ponder.

 

[Supplement Four]

Idea for Panic Fire.

Right now, in my game, I use the Panic Fire rule from Book 4. Tweaked a bit, of course.

Basically, the rule says you can attack up to three times in a combat round if you take a -2 DM on each attack.

Three aims and squeezes of the trigger in 15 seconds...one per 5 seconds (or faster, if you move during the round) seems logical.

What if, in the interest in cutting down on rolls, we combine this into one single roll.

Your autopistol, you can fire one, two, or three times during your round, just as you can with the Panic Fire rule.

If you fire once, you roll a normal attack. If you hit, you do normal damage.

If you fire twice, you roll a normal attack at -1. If you hit, you do normal damage +2.

If you fire three times, you roll a normal attack at -2. If you hit, you do normal damage +1D damage.

Something like that.

This way, if you combine panic fire with autofire, you're still only rolling the dice twice--not six times.

And the defense roll is once.

Something to ponder.