Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Sure, there's always going to be exceptions, but the rule should be the normal case while exceptions can be handled by either house rules, scenario rules, or the referee on the fly.
Long Distance Trade
- Thread starter whartung
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Sure, there's always going to be exceptions, but the rule should be the normal case while exceptions can be handled by either house rules, scenario rules, or the referee on the fly.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
And, all that's fine. The most important thing an X-boat is carrying normally is data so once it arrives, that can be transmitted to the receiving end virtually instantly.
I can't see the extra 27% for J5 being worth the cost (again the trade off), so J4 stays the standard.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Vertical integration, and economies of scale.
You control costs at every level, and aim for greater efficiency.
You control costs at every level, and aim for greater efficiency.
it's +27% cost for 25% longer range and 25% higher speed. The network would have to be remapped to exploit this, though.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
For a 20% longer range (4/5 or J4 = 80% of a J5 jump) and the same speed. All jumps regardless of distance take a week to complete.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
What is the average jump made by XBoats?
Canon OTU says that Jump-4 capable XBoats average 2.6 parsecs per jump.
Canon OTU also says that Jump-6 capable XBoats would average 5.5 parsecs per jump.
We don't have any analyses of what would happen to the average jump distance for a Jump-5 capable XBoat design.
2.6 * 1.27 = 3.302
So for a Jump-5 XBoat upgrade to break even on cost per average parsecs the Jump-5 version would need to average 3.3 parsecs per week.
However, my demonstration version of a J6 XBoat design over in The Fleet forum shows that it is possible to achieve a +111% increase in jump speed (5.5 parsecs vs 2.6 parsecs average) at a modest increase in cost per displacement ton of the entire system (3 XBoats, 1 Tender plus 3 Armored Gigs) of only +69% relative to the legacy system (see post #6 for details).
+111% speed for only a +69% cost increase is doing far better than merely breaking even (since breaking even would be +69% speed for +69% cost).
To achieve a similar performance gain/price point ratio out of a Jump-5 version, the new J5 Xboats would probably need to be averaging around 4.16 parsecs per jump ... which may not be achievable, from either an engineering standpoint nor as a matter of sector mapping logistics for the routes to be used. In other words, it would be something of a stretch.
By contrast, the J6 XBoat network is something that CAN BE DONE and we have OTU canon news reports on what would happen once it is completed (5.5 parsec average).
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Well, I did a random sampling of X-boat routes off the Traveller map. I'd say there's no need for a J5 or 6 boat whatsoever, and that most X-boats should be J3 with a smaller portion J4.
The most common jump distance between destinations on X-boat routes is a J3. The second most common is J2. These two distances outnumber J4 routes by just over 5 to 1. There are also about as many J1 routes as there are J4.
I'd even say that the J1 and 2 routes could better be handled by contracting a shipping firm that runs along those routes than using the specialized X-boat service in many places. That would be cheaper than having to maintain crews, specialized craft, and facilities to deal with these routes to simply have stuff go on a scheduled merchant ship.
For the longer J3 routes build a J3 X-boat to save money.
I'd also say that the X-boats would jump back and forth between two fixed systems, rather than proceed along the route. With such a procedure, you might have say 8 to 10 boats assigned with one leaving in each direction each day. That gives the operators time to maintain and load the boat for the next day over several days as well as some slack if a boat breaks down and needs serious repair.
This would mean that all adjacent worlds are essentially up-to-date on all information that is pertinent to them. Each additional jump would add just one day to the information flow.
The most common jump distance between destinations on X-boat routes is a J3. The second most common is J2. These two distances outnumber J4 routes by just over 5 to 1. There are also about as many J1 routes as there are J4.
I'd even say that the J1 and 2 routes could better be handled by contracting a shipping firm that runs along those routes than using the specialized X-boat service in many places. That would be cheaper than having to maintain crews, specialized craft, and facilities to deal with these routes to simply have stuff go on a scheduled merchant ship.
For the longer J3 routes build a J3 X-boat to save money.
I'd also say that the X-boats would jump back and forth between two fixed systems, rather than proceed along the route. With such a procedure, you might have say 8 to 10 boats assigned with one leaving in each direction each day. That gives the operators time to maintain and load the boat for the next day over several days as well as some slack if a boat breaks down and needs serious repair.
This would mean that all adjacent worlds are essentially up-to-date on all information that is pertinent to them. Each additional jump would add just one day to the information flow.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
At this point I have an extremely important question about your methodology for reaching your conclusion.
Were you just simply measuring the distance between sequential systems along the marked routes?
Or were you counting all of the systems within Jump-4 range from each point?
For example ... using the Spinward Marches sector, although there isn't an explicit XBoat "line" drawn between Rhylanor/Rhylanor and Risek/Rhylanor, the Risek system is in fact 4 parsecs away from Rhylanor. So the path that an XBoat would take from Rhylanor to Risek would be a direct Jump-4 ... not a Jump-2 to Jae Tellona followed by another Jump-3 to Risek so as to "follow" the lines drawn on the map.
Another example ... XBoats relaying communications from Aramis/Aramis to Rhylanor/Rhylanor would only make a pair of 4 parsec jumps. The first 4 parsec jump would be from Aramis to Celepina, followed by a second 4 parsec jump from Celepina to Rhylanor. The lines on the map would make it look like the journey would be Aramis to L'oeul d'Dieu to Celepina to Jae Tellona to Rhylanor (4 jumps) but the actual XBoat traffic from Aramis to Rhylanor would instead be only 2 jumps of 4 parsecs each (as described).
There are a remarkable number of these locations along the XBoat Network where the pathing of the lines of the network might imply that the jumps are shorter and thus more jumps are needed to move communications along the network, but that's just an artifact of how the lines get drawn on the sector maps. The way the network actually functions is that XBoats departing a system can jump to ANY other system ON the network within 4 parsecs of the system being departed from, regardless of how the lines are drawn on the map. An example of this would be an XBoat being sent from Ghandi/Lanth to Denotam/Vilis, 4 parsecs away, even though there is no "directly line" drawn on the map between the two systems (because it would get way too confusing way too fast if they were drawn everywhere). Both systems are on the XBoat network and are 4 parsecs apart, so an XBoat can jump from Ghandi directly to Denotam without needing to "Klingon Hook" around Dinomn and Extolay (following the lines on the sector map) before being forwarded on to Denotam.
As you can quickly see, depending on how you "count" the transit opportunities, a lot more of the network can wind up operating at Jump-4 than it might as first appear.
Even if the Express Network was not expanded out to new systems, there are some unique opportunities on the existing network for Jump-5 (and of course, Jump-6) upgrades. Jump-5 would connect Regina/Regina to Inthe/Regina, dramatically reducing the need to "take the long way around" through the Lanth subsector between Rhylanor and Regina. It would cut transit times from Rhylanor to Regina down to 3 jumps through Inthe, rather than the current 7 jumps going through the Lanth subsector. Another example would be a Jump-5 shortcut from D'Ganzio/Lanth to Lunion/Lunion in a single jump, rather than the 4 jumps needed going around through Fosey/Mora when limited to Jump-4. Needless to say, just in the Spinward Marches alone there are numerous examples where simply making Jump-5 available has some pretty profound effects on "unclogging" the transmission of communications around the network caused by the less efficient arrangement of network route locations.
And of course, Jump-6 provides the highest efficiency of movement along the "backbone" of the network for subsequent dissemination using the legacy Jump-4 ships away from the high speed network backbone. So instead of having a hi/lo mix of XBoats (jump-4) and Scout/Couriers (Jump-2) to propagate communications along the network, instead you wind up with a hi/mid/lo mix instead of J6 XBoats, J4 XBoats and Scout/Couriers all operating together to provide the necessary "packet switching" around the network at maximum speeds through jump.
Blah blah blah, you know the drill.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
My assumption is that every world along the line is one that's in the line. There are clearly lots of places where a line terminates and it isn't a J4.
For example, using the Spinward Marches:
There's a line from Regina to Dinonm and then to Ghandi. The first leg of that is a J2. The second is a J4. Clearly the X-boats per the rules don't make the jump directly from Regina to Ghandi.
There are plenty of examples where it is clear that the boats would make a J2 or 3 jump then make another to the next destination. Therefore, my assumption is they jump from one world on the line to the next be it a J1 or a J4.
Now, I could see boats jumping one system to several each day up to J4 away. That would mean that the J1, 2, and 3 systems also see daily boats.
Of course, I also find the choice of systems confusing as many are really poor choices for such a route to begin with. For example, Teh (Pretoria 0208) is a starport D TL 5 world with a population listed as just 80 people, when right next to it is Kretikaa, a class B starport with a TL of C and 600,000 population.
For example, using the Spinward Marches:
There's a line from Regina to Dinonm and then to Ghandi. The first leg of that is a J2. The second is a J4. Clearly the X-boats per the rules don't make the jump directly from Regina to Ghandi.
There are plenty of examples where it is clear that the boats would make a J2 or 3 jump then make another to the next destination. Therefore, my assumption is they jump from one world on the line to the next be it a J1 or a J4.
Now, I could see boats jumping one system to several each day up to J4 away. That would mean that the J1, 2, and 3 systems also see daily boats.
Of course, I also find the choice of systems confusing as many are really poor choices for such a route to begin with. For example, Teh (Pretoria 0208) is a starport D TL 5 world with a population listed as just 80 people, when right next to it is Kretikaa, a class B starport with a TL of C and 600,000 population.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I'm surprised that the ecks boat network is so linear.
Would have gone with a hub and spoke model.
Would have gone with a hub and spoke model.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Canon has it that xboats and megacorp traders/liners follow the lines on the map:
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I know.
But that's not a fast way to disseminate information, especially on the scale of the Imperium.
The Confederation (Navy) appears to have let theirs deteriorate, presumably deliberately.
But that's not a fast way to disseminate information, especially on the scale of the Imperium.
The Confederation (Navy) appears to have let theirs deteriorate, presumably deliberately.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The xboat network was built on top of the established trade lane routes that existed - as a consequence the xboat route was not optimised to only jump 4. This probably is a deliberate policy of the Imperium, if they can control the flow of information via a secret but faster system then they can... oh wait, that is exactly what happened.
There is also the oft overlooked factoid that the core systems of the Imperium operate a jump 6 xboat network that relies on drop tanks...
There is also the oft overlooked factoid that the core systems of the Imperium operate a jump 6 xboat network that relies on drop tanks...
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
The network was started in 624, "finished" in 710, and since then has grown organically as the frontiers of the Imperium expanded outwards. In the 1105 setting, we're looking at legacy decisions perhaps centuries old concerning where the routes go, so it's entirely possible that a disaster of some kind occurred after the route was established, damaging the underlying support infrastructure (starport, population, etc.) in some specific systems.
Paya / Aramis / Spinward Marches is an example of such a "disaster world" in the OTU. Paya had a population of 12 million until an asteroid struck the heavily populated southern continent in 1075. By 1105, the planetary population had been reduced down to only 600.
Although Paya isn't on an XBoat route, it is an example of how disasters can "reshape" economies of worlds long after they've been settled. Paya was settled in 310 and the type A starport was built in 980 ... and then in 1075 an asteroid impact reduced the planetary population downwards 99.995% by 1105 and the local population (that remains) is struggling to recover without resorting to inbound immigration (good luck with that!).
In the case of the choice of Teh / Pretoria / Deneb over Kretikaa / Pretoria / Deneb ... that could simply be a matter of which world was settled first/more settled when the XBoat network was being built out in this subsector, along with the already established interstellar trade route in the area. You also can't forget the possibility of corrupt noble(s) interfering with the selection process of where to site Scout Bases to support XBoat operations ...
The entire Imperium is fraught with this. The entire thing is filled with 100's of years old decisions, apparently static.
The game is to explain why it is the way it is, not why it isn't the way you want it to be.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Communications lag. The Imperium as stated in the OTU is too big go govern effectively, so decisions becomes static. Bureaucrats very rarely rock the boat.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Maybe it's actually a Vilani legacy, and basically what the Poni Express did was dig out the Roman roads, repave them, and set up shop.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Some of the early trading/piracy expeditions from England would cost £10,000 to mount and return with £1,000,000+ in cargo. One voyage made you for life or killed you. As a gamble, it was one many took.
The problem with basing it on "established trade routes" is that the setting doesn't match the rules (wow, big surprise there). The trade routes would have coalesced around Jump-1 and Jump-2 segments when possible because they're most efficient in credits/ton/parsec; beyond that, only high-traffic world pairs would have direct links.
Getting back to XBoats in general: one reason you'd see the canon J4 XBoats used on shorter runs is that LBB2 didn't provide for 100Td hulls to be built to J3 or J1 (it was possible, but you were still paying for J2 or J4 drives -- but J1/J2 could and should use Type S Scout/Couriers anyhow).
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
The way I see it is that the routes have changed, but the "official" maps haven't. I figure it as one of there's a delay in letting the map making bureaucracy know what the X-boat bureaucracy is doing.
Then you have the internal inefficiency of these bureaucracies where when the map making one finally gets notified, they send back a memorandum telling the X-boat bureaucracy that their request for changes was made improperly on the wrong form and needs to be resubmitted.
When that finally happens so the map makers accept there was a change, instead of making it on their maps immediately they send notice to a field survey team who then schedules a trip to the location to verify and make a proper survey of the changes...
This process continues ad infinitum for many years before the map changes are finally approved and made. The Vogon aren't the only officious and blundering bureaucrats in the universe!
Then you have the internal inefficiency of these bureaucracies where when the map making one finally gets notified, they send back a memorandum telling the X-boat bureaucracy that their request for changes was made improperly on the wrong form and needs to be resubmitted.
When that finally happens so the map makers accept there was a change, instead of making it on their maps immediately they send notice to a field survey team who then schedules a trip to the location to verify and make a proper survey of the changes...
This process continues ad infinitum for many years before the map changes are finally approved and made. The Vogon aren't the only officious and blundering bureaucrats in the universe!
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