Map Resources

[Bruce]

I am seeking a map for the Fornast sector. This is the Sector right next to Ley.

Does anyone know if there is even a GENERAL map of the sector?

If you can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.

Bruce Runnels
The Man Behind the Curtain
Ancient

 

[Malenfant]

How's this?
http://maps.travellercentral.com/sec//fh.fornast.html

(no idea as to how canonical it is - for all I know it isn't at all). There are links to UWPs and a PDF map there.

 

[Bruce]

Thanks Mal, all those links give me the info I need. I will ask hunter on their cannonical nature, which will eventually lead to asking Marc. The ultimate source of anythings cannonical nature, yes?

Thanks again Mal.

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain
Ancient

 

[clementk]

Some more sources since it seems anything like this is akin to archeology.

http://zho.berka.com/data/CLASSIC/sector.pl?sector=FORNAST
gives some background on the sources & another view of the sector.
Looks like the start in the AotI + DGP + some random generation for gaps path.
update: Zhodani Base has a map here. Best not zoomed in...

http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Fornast
Another view.

http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/
for other UWP sources

HTH,
Casey

 

[Bruce]

Thanks Casey,

Now I got to figure out which map is cannonical etc etc...

But I like the database. Very Tastey tid bits there.

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain
Ancient

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Bruce:
Thanks Casey,

Now I got to figure out which map is cannonical etc etc...

But I like the database. Very Tastey tid bits there.

YW.

Yes, just between 2 posts there's like 4+ possible versions. Like sifting through debris to find lost artifacts.

<nods> I'm finding one of Traveller's strengths is the number and quality of sites devoted to it.

Casey

 

[Anthony]

For several sectors there are two versions of the UWPs, one a (de-canonized) judges guild version, and a later version which dates from GDWs genii archives. I do not recall if fornast is one such. Where there was a conflict like that, I went with the genii archives. In addition, many of the genii files only gave names to the Hi-pop worlds; I filled in the names based on a (quite non-canon) list of world names which appeared on the CORE website.

(FWIW, the maps.travellercentral.com site is my work).

 

[aramis]

Judges Guild had 4 sectors out:
Ley, Glimmerdrift Reaches, Cruicis Margin, and Maranatha-Alkahest. Got 'em. Love 'em. Slightly better, info wise, than Sup 3 was...

 

[Elliot]

Fornast was mapped out in the AoftheI and left as a ref's preserve - for which see Berka's site and this page: http://zho.berka.com/data/CLASSIC/menu.pl?planY=SectorYYYGeneralYYYInformation&sector=FORNAST&menufile=FORNAST/GEN/SECTOR

 

[clementk]

Ah ok. I think this came up in the Spica Project. Since AotI isn't reprinted which if any of the online sector files are *directly* a transcript of what's in AotI / genii? My UWP origin-fu isn't that good.

FWIW, what I'm looking at is
http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/old_sectors/fornast.txt </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Misharkin 0226 D856952-A S Hi 512 Im M7 VI</pre>[/QUOTE]http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/sectors/fornast.sec
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Misharkin 0226 D856952-A S Hi 512 Im M7 VI</pre>[/QUOTE]I *believe* the difference is the first goes by location number in ascending order, the second by subsector.

Casey (search-fu

need caffeine)

 

[Whipsnade]

Casey,

First, throw out genii. It's been proven time and time again that the programming that produced genii failed to use the LLB:6 sysgen correctly. Genii is nothing but corrupted garbage and the quicker it is consigned to the dust heap the better.

Second, AotI did not present UWPs. Only hex location, port types, world types, gas giants, bases, and allegiances were shown. Also, only Hi-Pop worlds were named.

The information you posted regarding Misharkin matches the limited data set found in AotI.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Casey,

First, throw out genii.
...
Second, AotI did not present UWPs.
...
The information you posted regarding Misharkin matches the limited data set found in AotI.

Ah! Well that certainly gives plenty of room for creativity. The UWPs I posted were the first named entries by hex location in the two files.

Between this, Gateway discussions, and Spica I'm understanding why some want to clean, update, or scrap a lot of the UWPs.

Casey

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Bruce,

The following site may have the information you are looking for.

AB's Atlas of Charted Space (c. 1110)

Unfortunately, I'm not sure on whether or not the site is canon.

Originally posted by Bruce:
I am seeking a map for the Fornast sector. This is the Sector right next to Ley.

Does anyone know if there is even a GENERAL map of the sector?

If you can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.

Bruce Runnels
The Man Behind the Curtain
Ancient

 

[Whipsnade]

Casey wrote:

Between this, Gateway discussions, and Spica I'm understanding why some want to clean, update, or scrap a lot of the UWPs.

Casey,

Leaving the Marches and Rim out of it(1), the 64 CrImp question now becomes which sysgen to use?

- Should we simply use the system found in Scouts properly and leave it at that? On one hand, that would give us results closer to the corrupt genii data and thus result in far fewer changes. On the other hand, the star tables in LBB:6 are badly broken in light of our post-1983 knowledge. So;

- Should we then use the LBB:6 with Dr. Thomas' new star tables?

- Or should we use MT's sysgen? Maybe with the new star tables too?

- How about TNE's sysgen?

- Or the system inGT:First In? It gets praise for its accuracy.

- T20's sysgen shouldn't be dismissed either. It too is very good.

- I won't mention T4's sysgen... make hand gesture to ward off evil

If I had my druthers, I'd go for LBB:6 with Dr. Thomas' new tables, and not just because I love CT. IMHO, replacing the loads of genii garbage with correctly generated UWPs from Scouts would be less of a change. That means folks would be more likely to accept it. Also, adding correct stellar types would be a nice touch, sort of like icing a cake.

If I were you, I'd look long and hard at that Misharkin UWP, and any other UWPs you might be using, to see if they can be generated using Scouts. If they can, then use 'em as is. If they can't, then roll 'em up correctly.


Sincerely,
Larsen

1 - Because they both were pretty much handcrafted, the Marches and Rim are special cases that may deserve being left alone. The Marches predates much of LLB:6 and the Rim was generated using various DMs, i.e. +1 pop rolls and -1 to TL IIRC.

 

[Malenfant]

I will shortly be leaving LBB6 in the dust.

For my upcoming Realistic UWP Generation System, I have Size sorted out, just putting finishing touches on Atmospheres (which I'm very chuffed with - got a few new atmosphere types too), Hydrographics should be fairly straightforward. Population will be based on physical UWP, Government will be a LOT less tied to population, not sure yet about Law or TL.

(while I'm at it, I've got system metallicity, age, world density, atmospheric pressure and orbital zone in there too - now a world can be generated in any orbital zone, and each zone will have different world types).

Oh, and the physical stats will be compatible with existing UWP. Not sure what I'm doing with governments though, since I'm probably going to reduce those in number.

If I do the full shebang, I may even be able to throw in new stellar luminosity tables, stellar aging effects, inward-spiralling jovians, and brown dwarfs.

 

[LordVince]

I've been playing with the various CT sysgen systems -- Scouts, JTAS articles, MegaTraveller, etc. -- as well as other sysgen systems -- Space Opera, GURPS, Alternity, etc. -- as well as the recent T20 system, since 1978. And I have to say, Mal, that the stuff you've shown us recently is the most superior, IMHO.

So please DO do the "full shebang"! This stuff is great.

 

[Malenfant]

Thanks!

I'll probably concentrate most on getting the basic mainworld UWP generation done, then do the rest once I've got that figured out.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Casey,

First, throw out genii. It's been proven time and time again that the programming that produced genii failed to use the LLB:6 sysgen correctly.

While it's true that the Genii files are junk, they're the only thing available as a common starting point -- if you want to do work that even approaches pre-existing information, as opposed to simply rolling out your own sector, the Genii files are the only place to start.

Incidentally, I don't think it was ever claimed that the genii files were book 6; I'm pretty sure they're book 3. The results are statistically compliant with that assumption.

Another problem with the genii files is that there are problems with the random number generator used for a couple of sectors, such as Delphi.

 

[aramis]

Note that, for the Spinward Marches and the Solomani Rim, those two are hand massaged by GDW staff, according to GDW... and so the numbers in those sectors are NOT random throughout. Core might have been also so massaged, and I suspect so strongly, but have not seen DesNotes on that that I recall.

After all, we knew of some of the worlds in the S'Rim (Sup 10) from older sources (like Imperium) and other sources (Sup 11: LDNZ, Invasion Earth)...

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Core might have been also so massaged, and I suspect so strongly, but have not seen DesNotes on that that I recall.

I stumbled across this yesterday looking up TML digest info:
from TD#15 Q&A (link)

"All answers in this column are reviewed by GDW and thus are official answers to your questions."

"The central sectors of the Imperium were given a special tech level modifier of +1 when they were generated, in addition to all the other regular modifiers. - Joe D. Fugate Sr."

The answer is in response to a world in Ilelish but I would think Core, Massilia, and the like would also count as central sectors. Not quite evidence of hand-massaged UWPs

but at least a conscious adjustment to normal UWP generation.

Casey adds another page to TA#69, Scout Lingo of the 3I